Ukraine To Receive Military Support 'For As Long As It Takes'

[squeezer]

Unfortunately the dimwits on here are incapable of critical thinking.

They get all their info from twitter.

Germany and France are still buying energy from Russia and it will never stop.

Hmmm, didn't know BBC was Twitter.....

Germany says it is no longer reliant on Russian energy

New sources of energy mean Germany is no longer dependent on Russia, Germany's finance minister said.

www.bbc.com

France Crude Oil Imports From Russia - June 2023 Data - 2008-2022 Historical

Crude Oil Imports from Russia in France decreased to 66 Thousand Tonnes in August from 300 Thousand Tonnes in May of 2022. Crude Oil Imports from Russia in France averaged 588.97 Thousand Tonnes from 2008 until 2022, reaching an all time high of 1546.00 Thousand Tonnes in May of 2010 and a...

tradingeconomics.com

.


You really need to buy a critical thinking cap because I believe you drink a lot of Kool-Aid but that's ok, enjoy it. Of course, one cannot expect a country to go completely cold turkey on energy but slowly but surely it's changing and Russia is being slowly but surely disemboweled financially.

ps... I'd be careful with the name-calling young man. Just a friendly suggestion but please feel free to carry on.

 

[NotADcotor]

i bet someone told the Germans the same thing in 1942

Russia's defense industry employs 2.5 – 3 million people and accounts for 20% of all manufacturing jobs in Russia.
i would not count on the Russians running out of weapons

And yet they are sending T-55s and T60 somethings to the front, btr-50s etc. This is not the action of a country with a strong defense indistry, If that many people are being employed, they are obviously not working very hard. Double plus so bad considering how much equipment there were supposed to have in storage.

When Will Ammunition Shortage Silence Russia’s Artillery?

Russian artillery has been expending ammunition at an extremely high rate. When will they run out — and what happens then?

www.forbes.com

" The sharp reduction in the amount being fired suggests that stockpiles are now severely depleted. Russia is reportedly drawing on old ammunition reserves, but reportedly as many of 50% of the shells are visibly rusty and are not in a satisfactory state due to poor storage and sheer age. Troops are reportedly being issued ammunition previously declared unfit for use."

Oh and your are wrong when it comes to the Germans, even during the initital push in 1941 the Germans were noticing that they would take out X divisions and even more divisions would replace them.
“These Russians seem to have an inexhaustible supply of men. Here they unload fresh troops from Siberia every day, they bring up fresh guns and lay mines all over the place.” A young artillery officer, early November 1941.
"When he became aware of the Soviet Army’s growing strength, effectiveness, and will, the formerly confident General Halder was obliged to change his views. “Overall,” he said on August 11, “it is clearer and clearer that we have underestimated the Russian colossus, which had prepared itself for war with an absolute lack of restraint which is characteristic of the totalitarian state. This is as true in the area of organization as it is of the economy, the area of transport and communications, but above all to pure military power. At the start of the war, we reckoned on some 200 enemy divisions. Now we have already counted 360. These divisions are definitely not armed and equipped in our sense, and tactically they are in many ways badly led. But they are there.”"

 

[JohnLarue]

And yet they are sending T-55s and T60 somethings to the front, btr-50s etc. This is not the action of a country with a strong defense indistry, If that many people are being employed, they are obviously not working very hard. Double plus so bad considering how much equipment there were supposed to have in storage.

When Will Ammunition Shortage Silence Russia’s Artillery?

Russian artillery has been expending ammunition at an extremely high rate. When will they run out — and what happens then?

www.forbes.com

" The sharp reduction in the amount being fired suggests that stockpiles are now severely depleted. Russia is reportedly drawing on old ammunition reserves, but reportedly as many of 50% of the shells are visibly rusty and are not in a satisfactory state due to poor storage and sheer age. Troops are reportedly being issued ammunition previously declared unfit for use."

i bet someone told Napoleon a similar thing in 1812

Russia's defense industry employs 2.5 – 3 million people and accounts for 20% of all manufacturing jobs in Russia.
i would not count on the Russians running out of weapons

 

[oil&gas]

Maybe Germany and France can just acquire Russia. Problem solved.....

This shall be the job for India, China and Iran. NATO members are too
virtuous to pull such feat off. They do condemn other invaders but won't
stoop to invading a sovereign state. They won't even let Ukraine going
into the invader's territories.

 

[mandrill]

Jesus Christ, this is stupid.....

I am still waiting for the Gordon Lightfoot Lattes. The man even died and Timmys won't even honour him with a specialty drink? Gross.....

Here are some others:

Burton Cummings Crueller
Bachman Apple Turnover Drive
Bryan Adams Apple Doughnut
Neil Peart Pumpkin Spice
Geddy Lee Grande Latte
Alex Lifeson Latte
Steppenwolf Soup Combo
Paul Shafer Piano Sandwich Combo
Christopher Plummer "General Chang" Combo
William Shatner Ham Sandwich Combo
Leslie Nielsen "Police Squad" Coffee

I'm waiting for the "Gord Downie Brownie".

 

[NotADcotor]

i bet someone told Napoleon a similar thing in 1812

Russia's defense industry employs 2.5 – 3 million people and accounts for 20% of all manufacturing jobs in Russia.
i would not count on the Russians running out of weapons

And again you would be wrong.

Also, you keep repeating the size of the people employed in the industry, but never address why that production doesn't seem to be showing on the front. Over and over reporting is saying that.

No point having a 10 inch dick if you can't get a woman for other reasons.

 

[Anbarandy]

Maybe Germany and France can just acquire Russia. Problem solved.....

Monopoly or Risk, or a combination thereof.

Land on "3 Day Special Military Operation Street" and get a "Drive your military mutiny convoy straight into the Kremlin" card for free.

 

[SchlongConery]

No question that Russian mass is not to be dismissed nor minimized. Putin has relatively unlimited cash, metal, explosive and human mass to keep going and going and going. He simply can't turn back so will keep sacrificing Russian assets until Putin, and Russia fails from within.

Ukraine will similarly never quit and I don't think their allies will quit supporting them.

I believe Ukraine will prevail because they use their resources wisely, accurately and with tons of intelligence to back up their work. Oh and because their morale is 100x that of the Russian men on the front lines.

But I think that Ukraine's success will be as a result of serendipitous events all stacking up. Like the Pregohzin debacle. With all the talk of the event being about Putin's weakness, windows, tea, FSB assinination squads etc... little attention is paid to the fact that Russia has lost the Wagner army the most competent and effective infantrymen and command they had. I trust Prigohzin's assessment that Shoigu and Gerasimov are incompetent and therefore the best asset Ukraine has in Russia. And to save face personally, Putin is keeping them in those leadership positions.

That kind of personal interest motivated strategy, and general Russian hubris is not going to result in anything good for Russia. IMO.

Slava Ukraine !

 

[squeezer]

Jesus Christ, this is stupid.....

I am still waiting for the Gordon Lightfoot Lattes. The man even died and Timmys won't even honour him with a specialty drink? Gross.....

Here are some others:

Burton Cummings Crueller
Bachman Apple Turnover Drive
Bryan Adams Apple Doughnut
Neil Peart Pumpkin Spice
Geddy Lee Grande Latte
Alex Lifeson Latte
Steppenwolf Soup Combo
Paul Shafer Piano Sandwich Combo
Christopher Plummer "General Chang" Combo
William Shatner Ham Sandwich Combo
Leslie Nielsen "Police Squad" Coffee

Sticking within somewhat the topic of this thread and this post, look at the other travesty Putin the Twat has committed!!!

Russia replaces Starbucks with Stars Coffee after exodus

Pro-Kremlin rapper Timati and Russian restaurateur Anton Pinskiy acquired Starbucks' Russian operations in July and gave it a new name under the slogan 'bucks is gone, stars stay'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[oil&gas]

Putin and Modi discuss Ukraine, armed mutiny in phone call
June 30, 2023

Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the situation around Ukraine and how Moscow had resolved an armed mercenary mutiny in a telephone call with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday, the Kremlin and New Delhi said.

Moscow said that Modi had expressed support for what the Kremlin called the Russian leadership's decisive actions in handling the mutiny by the Wagner mercenary group last Saturday.

The Indian government said Putin, who will also join Modi on Tuesday for a virtual summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, informed the prime minister about the recent developments in Russia during their conversation.

The call comes after the United States and India declared themselves "among the closest partners in the world" last week during a state visit to Washington by Modi.

India has not condemned its old ally Russia over the invasion of Ukraine and have urged both sides to resolve their differences through diplomacy. Modi told Putin last year that "today's era is not an era of war".

"While discussing the situation in Ukraine, PM (Modi) reiterated his call for dialogue and diplomacy," New Delhi said in a statement.

The boss of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, shocked the world by leading Saturday's armed revolt, only to abruptly call it off as his fighters approached Moscow.

India's national security adviser, Ajit Doval, also spoke to his counterpart Nikolai Patrushev on Wednesday on the failed mutiny, an Indian security establishment source said.

India remains dependent on Moscow for its defense needs and has sharply increased its imports of cheap Russian oil, frustrating the West.

Putin and Modi discuss Ukraine, armed mutiny in phone call

Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the situation around Ukraine and how Moscow had resolved an armed mercenary mutiny in a telephone call with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday, the Kremlin and New Delhi said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Ukraine will get support for as long as it takes, they will get financial help from the west to rebuild after the war. Ukraine will not be admitted into NATO.

 

[oil&gas]

They will have to pay the west back with their natural resources in
oil, gas, coal and minerals. Big Oil are already circling over the war
torn country like vultures.

 

[DinkleMouse]

Ukraine will not be admitted into NATO.

These was definitely true prior to the war. I'm not so sure anymore. Ukraine has westernized rapidly and have been doing NATO's job all alone. It will be difficult for NATO to keep them out now, as much as that messes with their strategic plans. Though it's possible NATO may not really have any need to exist when the dust settles depending on what happens with Russia.

I'm not saying I disagree and they will definitely be admitted, it's just a lot more complicated now.

 

[tiberius6675]

They will have to pay the west back with their natural resources in
oil, gas, coal and minerals. Big Oil are already circling over the war
torn country like vultures.

This.

I also think Ukraine will be in NATO eventually or atleast in some form of European alliance. I think they applied to be in the EU, not sure what happened with that.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Ukraine is in ruins, they have no money. Their military is 99.99% supported by the west. The situation is that the western countries have sent a lot of modern military equipment to Ukraine and they will replace this equipment with even more modern military equipment. Meanwhile Russia has expended between 50-75% of their personnel and antiquated equipment and will have to quit the war soon. Russia has lost half their economy due to the war and it will be years before they recover. NATO can not afford to poke the Russian bear by putting a NATO member at their door steps. NATO can achieve their objective by doing what they are doing now by sending military aid to Ukraine. For those that say that Putin will be gone soon or sooner or later, you never know what kind of maniac will replace him.

Finland was fast tracked into NATO in April, why was Ukraine not accepted at the same time or even considered. Any NATO county that comes under attack must be defended by all of the other NATO countries. If Ukraine is accepted into NATO now or in the future then NATO must send troops to fight the Russians and start WWIII.

The best case scenario :

Putin backs down and retreats out of Ukraine or he is deposed and over thrown and found dead in Red Square skewered on top a a flag pole. Russia must rebuild their shattered economy and return to normal as much as they can while paying war reparation to Ukraine ( if they do not, sanctions will not be lifted ) Ukraine sells a lot of wheat and resources to the west to pay to rebuild the country. Inflation is put under control around the world and and food security is more assured. Oil supply will increase as Russia must sell oil to China to recoup what has been lost.

 

[DinkleMouse]

NATO can not afford to poke the Russian bear by putting a NATO member at their door steps.

Two comments. First, it's Russia who poked the bear and exposed how unbelievably weak militarily they actually are. It's been a massive blunder , all because Putin rules like Hitler and no one wanted to tell him the truth. Putin expected to be welcomed with open arms, instead he's met stiff resistance even in the more pro-Russian parts of the country. Secondly, if you look at a map, NATO adjust has member states on their doorstep. More relevant and valuable states. I've said it before and I'm say it again: NATO had no interest in inviting Ukraine as it actually weakened their defensive position. Now they will likely have no choice when the war is over, but they will also be facing a far weaker Russia.

Finland was fast tracked into NATO in April, why was Ukraine not accepted at the same time or even considered.

You might want to look at the 1995 Study on Enlargement. All existing NATO members need to vote in favour for a nation to be invited for NATO ascension, and the criteria those nations should consider are laid out in the Study. One of the key points is no ongoing border disputes. It's what formed the basis for this meme:



While not in the Charter, no nation will ever be admitted to NATO while it's at war except in the most extreme circumstances.

Any NATO county that comes under attack must be defended by all of the other NATO countries. If Ukraine is accepted into NATO now or in the future then NATO must send troops to fight the Russians and start WWIII.

Ukraine can be invited without issue once the war is over, and most likely will be as a "reward" for doing NATO's work for them.

 

[oil&gas]

.............................................
Russia must rebuild their shattered economy and return to normal as much as they can while paying war reparation to Ukraine ( if they do not, sanctions will not be lifted ) ...................

Sanctions will have to be partially lifted even if Russia is not going
to pay a cent to Ukraine in war reparation.

Russia is pumping more oil to Europe than it was before the war

Refiners are cashing in on cheap Urals crude

www.economist.com

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Ukraine can be invited without issue once the war is over, and most likely will be as a "reward" for doing NATO's work for them.

It will not be anytime soon, it may be later. Much later.

Sanctions will have to be partially lifted even if Russia is not going
to pay a cent to Ukraine in war reparation

There are many ways you can put hardship on Russia after the war is over. The Russian oil supply can be directed to China to meet their needs at the same time the Russian oil supply to the west after the war is cut off or throttled to the west. This will give the oil consuming nations some control on price the oil supply nations also have the need to sell their oil and must adjust their price accordingly.

After the pandemic and massive stimulus and emergency spending, inflation is out of control. Stable oil supply and food security must be addressed to stabilize the world economy. While it is some what stable in North America things in Europe is not as good. In other countries it is much worse. The North American and Chinese economy must be stabilized to have a trickle down effect on other countries.

 

[DinkleMouse]

It will not be anytime soon, it may be later. Much later.

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not sure what makes you so confident.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not sure what makes you so confident.

Politics. This is the most powerful weapon in the world. To control people. power, money. If you look at the big picture you will see something different than what they want you to see.

I will give you an example that is far away from this matter. Was it not politics that the American government banned Huawei from installing their 5G cell phone system and cause other western nations to do the same. They claimed that China might spy on cell calls if the system was bought from a Chinese company. If a company like Huawei can develop a advanced 5G cell phone system, then can they not easily hack into a second rate 5G cell phone system that the west will have to buy now? If you suspect another country is listening in on your cell phone conversations. then would it not be smart to plant false information for them to spy on? The banning of Huawei is to send a message to China that they are getting too big and they can be cut back or cut out.
BTW- Nokia/Ericsson is buying technology from Huawei to fulfil the installations of their 5G cell phone systems.

It would be foolish to humiliate Russia soon after the war to install a NATO ally on their door steps.