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Toronto Star poll over masks backfires spectacularly

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bver_hunter

bver_hunter

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Phil C. McNasty said:
Because after I've dealt a crucial blow by winning my argument I like to soften it up a little to help make you feel better :D
Click to expand...
Please do not deal any crucial blows to your signature lady. She does not look like she is even remotely interested in debating you!! 😊 😁🤣😂
 
Valcazar

Valcazar

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Phil C. McNasty said:
Tell you what, sweetheart. Explain to me in your own words why Sweden had a much lower infection rate than Denmark did, even though they had no mask mandate.
Heck, they didnt even have lockdowns. Read my post below and click on the links:
Click to expand...
Sure.
You don't want to talk about deaths (although you really should) so we will stick with infections.

The problem with your links is they are just gross totals and you are using "ever had mask mandate" vs "never had a mask mandate". Those categories don't accurately reflect what happened, but we will keep things simple for you.
I'll use ourworldindata because you can get graphs over time easily.
ourworldindata.org

Sweden: Coronavirus Pandemic Country Profile

Sweden: What has been the impact of the Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)?
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org

1669088899423.png

As you can see, during the first period of the pandemic, Denmark consistently had fewer infections per capita than Sweden.
Then, in August, 2021, just before what would be the Omicron wave, Denmark removed their mask mandate and removed all other gathering restrictions by Sept 10, 2021.

Huh, look at that infection curve right after that...
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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bver_hunter said:
Hey Honeybuns, the fact is that Sweden had 3 times the death rate of Denmark. Maybe that is okay with you!!
Click to expand...
Again, you are changing the subject now. Deaths have nothing to do with mode of infections.
The topic is whether masks stop (or reduce) initial infections, and going by the data Denmark actually had much worse infection rate than Sweden, even though they had mask mandate and they have half the population of Sweden
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Valcazar said:
Sure.
You don't want to talk about deaths (although you really should) so we will stick with infections.

The problem with your links is they are just gross totals and you are using "ever had mask mandate" vs "never had a mask mandate". Those categories don't accurately reflect what happened, but we will keep things simple for you.
I'll use ourworldindata because you can get graphs over time easily.
ourworldindata.org

Sweden: Coronavirus Pandemic Country Profile

Sweden: What has been the impact of the Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)?
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org

View attachment 189202

As you can see, during the first period of the pandemic, Denmark consistently had fewer infections per capita than Sweden.
Then, in August, 2021, just before what would be the Omicron wave, Denmark removed their mask mandate and removed all other gathering restrictions by Sept 10, 2021.

Huh, look at that infection curve right after that...
Click to expand...
The first period of the pandemic Denmark had shutdowns and practiced social distancing.
Sweden never shut down bars, restaurants.....etc. They stayed open with little to no social distancing.

That explains why Denmark did better during first period of the pandemic.

And FTR we are discussing masks only.
I have never been against social distancing or temporary lockdowns.
Lockdowns in Ontario were necessary to relieve hospital burdens
 
bver_hunter

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Phil C. McNasty said:
Again, you are changing the subject now. Deaths have nothing to do with mode of infections.
The topic is whether masks stop (or reduce) initial infections, and going by the data Denmark actually had much worse infection rate than Sweden, even though they had mask mandate and they have half the population of Sweden
Click to expand...
Again, you have been moving the goal posts all along. I will not be surprised if Sweden had a far worse infection rate than Denmark. Do you realize that a vast population do not bother to get tested? My neighbours whole family were infected with the virus. Only the Mother went to take the PCR test and was found to be positive as she had the most severe infection. The rest of the family just stayed at home. The death rates is a better gauge of the actual infection rates. Swedes were lack a daisy in testing etc.

A key limitation in our understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic is that we do not know the true number of infections. Instead, we only know of infections that have been confirmed by a test – the confirmed cases. But because many infected people never get tested,1 we know that confirmed cases are only a fraction of true infections. How small a fraction though?

To answer this question, several research groups have developed epidemiological models of COVID-19. These models use the data we have – confirmed cases and deaths, testing rates, and more – plus a range of assumptions and epidemiological knowledge to estimate true infections and other important metrics.
Click to expand...
ourworldindata.org

How epidemiological models of COVID-19 help us estimate the true number of infections

We know that confirmed COVID-19 cases are only a fraction of true infections. How small a fraction though?
ourworldindata.org ourworldindata.org

But within Sweden's scientific and medical community, a debate about the strategy has simmered and frequently boiled over—in the opinion pages of newspapers, within university departments, and among hospital staff. A group of scientists known as "the 22" has called for tougher measures since April, when it published a blistering critique of the country's public health authority, the Folkhälsomyndigheten (FoHM). The group, which has grown to include 50 scientists and another 150 supporting members, now calls itself the Vetenskapsforum COVID-19 (Science Forum COVID-19).It says the price for Sweden's laissez-faire approach has been too high. The country's cumulative death rate since the beginning of the pandemic rivals that of the United States, with its shambolic response. And the virus took a shocking toll on the most vulnerable. It had free rein in nursing homes, where nearly 1000 people died in a matter of weeks. Stockholm's nursing homes ended up losing 7% of their 14,000 residents to the virus. The vast majority were not taken to hospitals. Although infections waned over the summer, scientists worry a new wave will hit in the fall. Cases are rising rapidly in the greater Stockholm area, where almost one-quarter of the Swedish population lives.
Click to expand...

Science | AAAS

www.science.org www.science.org

Once again you have not commented about Canada and USA for a real comparison. Canada has a much better infection and death rate per capita than the USA where the Covid-19 restrictions etc were not enforced. When Florida has a worse infection and death rate than the whole of Canada, what does that indicate?
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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bver_hunter said:
Again, you have been moving the goal posts all along. I will not be surprised if Sweden had a far worse infection rate than Denmark. Do you realize that a vast population do not bother to get tested?
Click to expand...
So now your excuse is hundreds of thousands of Swedes didnt bother to get tested 😂

This will be my final post from now on:

Sweden, 2.6 million infections. No mask mandate https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Denmark, 3.1 million infections. Strict mask mandate https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/
Also Sweden has almost twice the population that Denmark has.

Check and checkmate
 
Valcazar

Valcazar

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Phil C. McNasty said:
The first period of the pandemic Denmark had shutdowns and practiced social distancing.
Sweden never shut down bars, restaurants.....etc. They stayed open with little to no social distancing.

That explains why Denmark did better during first period of the pandemic.

And FTR we are discussing masks only.
I have never been against social distancing or temporary lockdowns.
Lockdowns in Ontario were necessary to relieve hospital burdens
Click to expand...
So by your own criteria, you can say nothing about the Mask Mandate effects on infection rate using Denmark and Sweden, then.
So why bring up a comparison that you admit can't help your argument in any way?

www.businessinsider.com

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Swedish officials said that five bars and restaurants in Stockholm ignored social distancing guidelines over the weekend.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Valcazar said:
So by your own criteria, you can say nothing about the Mask Mandate effects on infection rate using Denmark and Sweden, then
Click to expand...
Huh?? How did you come to that conclusion??
I stated the exact opposite. I am comparing both countries infection rates.
One had a mask mandate, the other one didnt

Valcazar said:
www.businessinsider.com

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Swedish officials said that five bars and restaurants in Stockholm ignored social distancing guidelines over the weekend.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...
Exactly, they had to crack down because nobody was following the social distancing rules.
And Sweden still had a much lower infection rate than Denmark
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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S

squeezer

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Phil C. McNasty said:
This will be my final post from now on:

Check and checkmate
Click to expand...
You can't even stick to your own claims! LMFAO


Phil C. McNasty said:
Huh?? How did you come to that conclusion??
I stated the exact opposite. I am comparing both countries infection rates.
One had a mask mandate, the other one didnt
Exactly, they had to crack down because nobody was following the social distancing rules.
And Sweden still had a much lower infection rate than Denmar
Click to expand...
Phil C. McNasty said:
Sweden, 2.6 million infections. No mask mandate https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Denmark, 3.1 million infections. Strict mask mandate https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/
Also Sweden has almost twice the population that Denmark has.
Click to expand...
Phil, it's ok. Just admit you love the banter and tail chase.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Phil C. McNasty

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Valcazar

Valcazar

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Phil C. McNasty said:
Then they still shouldve had a lower infection rate, especially since they have almost half the population Sweden has.
Instead it was much higher

Math and statistics, you're doing it wrong
Click to expand...
Why should they have had a lower infection rate?
And why would the population size matter to the rate, since the rate already adjusts for size?
 
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