Amnesty International: Israel Apartheid

[Frankfooter]

The vast majority of Palestinians don't want to be Israeli not vote in Israeli elections no matter how much you want to force them to. Most Palestinians want their own state. The sticking point is part of the Palestinian leadership is more interested in getting rid of Jews than they are in creating a Palestinian state.

True, but since there is no Palestine and there is almost zero chance there ever will be ending apartheid through sanctions is the only peaceful way forward.
Too bad Israel never listen to that massive list of Israeli leaders who warned of apartheid.
Too bad they were more interested in settler colonialism and apartheid rule.

 

[basketcase]

True, but ...

So you prefer forcing Israel into a unilateral solution Palestinians hate rather than pressuring both sides to negotiate a deal?

 

[basketcase]

As I said, there are 4 major reports detailing the specific ways Israel ...

And obviously don't compare to what Apartheid is.

The closer comparison for Israeli Arabs is the systemic discrimination of the US (especially the south). Gaza is a defacto independent state that is at war with Israel and Israel does not implement any laws there that could be apartheid. The West Bank is a complex issue but the differences under the parts ruled by Israel are based on citizenship, not race. Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israeli controlled areas and PA controlled areas while Israeli Jews get lynched for accidentally taking a wrong turn. That is the only Apartheid-like laws in the West bank.

 

[basketcase]

No, its racist to claim that all Palestinians are filled with hate.
...

It would be and I didn't. I said Hamas and a few other factions. They are 100% clear that their goal is the elimination of the Jewish presence.

I could accuse you of not being capable of reading but we both know that this is just another excuse for you to avoid criticizing Hamas for their racist goals. Just because you consider all Jews in the West Bank to be terrorists doesn't mean I have that kind of opinion.

 

[Frankfooter]

So you prefer forcing Israel into a unilateral solution Palestinians hate rather than pressuring both sides to negotiate a deal?

I support BDS, a Palestinian movement.
How is that forcing Palestinians into anything?

 

[Frankfooter]

And obviously don't compare to what Apartheid is.

Tutu said Israel's form of apartheid is worse, and he was correct.

But more so, I'll take the expert opinions of Amnesty, HRW, B'tselem, Yesh Din and the UN over hasbara trolling.
Israel is apartheid and Canada has a moral duty to sanction.

Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity

Israeli authorities must be held accountable for committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians, Amnesty International said today in a damning new report. The investigation details how Israel enforces a system of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it has...

www.amnesty.org

 

[Frankfooter]

Just because you consider all Jews in the West Bank to be terrorists doesn't mean I have that kind of opinion.

That is a hateful straw man.
I have never said any such thing.
That's disgusting.

 

[basketcase]

That is a hateful straw man.
I have never said any such thing.
That's disgusting.

So what were all those posts saying attacks on settlers were legitimate self defense because some other settlers attacked something?

 

[basketcase]

I support BDS, a Palestinian movement.
How is that forcing Palestinians into anything?

The Palestinians overwhelmingly oppose an egalitarian One State peace including armed factions like Hamas. In those circumstances, how is demanding Israel force Palestinians to become Israeli supposed to fix anything. Israel imposing a solution won't change their minds and it won't stop Hamas from continuing it's racist, genocidal terrorism. The only thing that will work is pressuring and incentivizing both sides to come to a negotiated peace. Your method is no different than the Brits and French deciding the Middle East's borders.

And BDS does not support a One State peace so your excuses are bullshit as usual.

 

[basketcase]

Tutu said Israel's form of apartheid is worse, and he was correct.
...

Again listening to foreigners instead of the people involved.

Sorry but the Arab members of Parliament have come out clearly saying the Apartheid description is wrong. South Africa didn't allow minorities to even vote but Israel has Arabs freely elected and part of the coalition and part of all aspects of society. Tutu was full of shit on this.

 

[Frankfooter]

So what were all those posts saying attacks on settlers were legitimate self defense because some other settlers attacked something?

Only those settlers who act as militants, or as you called them 'terrorists'.
You hypocrisy is so outrageous, you will call them 'terrorist' and then say its wrong to argue that Palestinians have a right to self defence from this terrorism in what should be Palestine.

 

[Frankfooter]

Again listening to foreigners instead of the people involved.

Sorry but the Arab members of Parliament have come out clearly saying the Apartheid description is wrong. South Africa didn't allow minorities to even vote but Israel has Arabs freely elected and part of the coalition and part of all aspects of society. Tutu was full of shit on this.

75% of Palestinians and 'Israeli Arabs' say Israel is apartheid.
The Israeli human rights organization B'tselem says Israel is apartheid, as do Yesh Din.
Israeli PM's repeatedly warned of apartheid.

Those are the people involved and they also say Israel is apartheid.
Pretty much everyone is saying it now, basketcase.
You know why?
Because Israel is apartheid.

Canada has a moral duty to sanction apartheid Israel.

 

[basketcase]

Only those settlers who act as militants, or as you called them 'terrorists'.
...

That sure isn't what you've been posting. If that were true, you'd have to admit attacks targeting random Jewish civilians are the same kind of terrorism as attacks targeting random Palestinian civilians (and only one of us considers both to be terrorism). Instead you have repeatedly said targeting random Jews is an act of self defence the same way you've describe Hamas' random rockets as self defense.

p.s. I love your sudden pretext of putting terrorism in quotation marks because for year's you've had no issue using the term to describe everything about Israel.

75% of Palestinians and 'Israeli Arabs' say Israel is apartheid.
...

And a similar amount oppose the elitist farce you want forced upon them but you don't care what they say. That's why a negotiated peace is the only conceivable way forward.

Fact is Israeli Arabs like members of the government coalition know Apartheid isn't an accurate description because they know words have actual meaning are aren't just emotional buzzwords used to avoid reality.

 

[Frankfooter]

That sure isn't what you've been posting. If that were true, you'd have to admit attacks targeting random Jewish civilians

Why is it that you seem to think that settlers you say are committing 'terrorism' are just 'random' Jewish civilians?
Do you really think that these crimes are not from a small subset of settlers and you really think that any 'random' Jewish civilian is capable and likely to commit 'terrorism'?

That's a very dark view of colonial settlers, basketcase.

Maybe its time you listened to South Africa.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1493353060013387776

 

[basketcase]

Why is it that you seem to think that settlers you say are committing 'terrorism' are just 'random' Jewish civilians?
...

I love the way that you say I'm lying then immediately prove I was right.

But keep on trying to conflate the small number of settlers who are violent with the masses who have done nothing wrong except be Jews in an area where some people don't think Jews should be. At the same time you keep decrying Israel when they stop Palestinians directly engaged in similar violence.

The only way forward is to pressure both sides into a negotiated peace. Your western elitist attempt to force the Palestinians into becoming Israelis against their will won't solve anything.


p.s. If you listened to South Africans about what Apartheid laws actually were, you'd realize how much of a farce your current claims are.

 

[Frankfooter]

But keep on trying to conflate the small number of settlers who are violent with the masses who have done nothing wrong except be Jews in an area where some people don't think Jews should be. At the same time you keep decrying Israel when they stop Palestinians directly engaged in similar violence.

That's you, basketcase.
Every time you try to say that 'terrorist' settlers are just 'random Jews'.

You have agreed that ever settlement is illegal and that you support the two state solution.
Which means you should be the one arguing that 'Jews shouldn't be there', unless you're really here defending the apartheid one state solution.

The only way forward is to pressure both sides into a negotiated peace. Your western elitist attempt to force the Palestinians into becoming Israelis against their will won't solve anything.

Been there, done that, all we got was the t-shirt.
Oslo just created 'facts on the ground'.
So supporting BDS and sanctions to end apartheid is all that's left.

p.s. If you listened to South Africans about what Apartheid laws actually were, you'd realize how much of a farce your current claims are.

I just quoted the South African parliament on Israeli apartheid.
You need to read the laws, the multiple reports and get informed.

And stop defending apartheid while you're at it.

 

[basketcase]

That's you, basketcase.
Every time you try to say that 'terrorist' settlers are just 'random Jews'.
...

Disgusting the way you keep trying to justify violence against random Jews because some other Jews are violent. Especially dumb that in a thread where you are praising Amnesty, you are going directly against their view on this topic.

All of your yammering is transparently because your obsession with Israel since you clearly have no interest in what Palestinians want (except groups like Hamas who want Jews ethnically cleansed).


And I know you never would for fear that it would undermine your views but any look at the actual laws of Apartheid South Africa proves how ridiculous the claim is, especially when they somehow accuse Israel of Apartheid against people who have never lived inside Israel, the West Bank, or Gaza.

 

[Frankfooter]

Disgusting the way you keep trying to justify violence against random Jews because some other Jews are violent. Especially dumb that in a thread where you are praising Amnesty, you are going directly against their view on this topic.

All of your yammering is transparently because your obsession with Israel since you clearly have no interest in what Palestinians want (except groups like Hamas who want Jews ethnically cleansed).


And I know you never would for fear that it would undermine your views but any look at the actual laws of Apartheid South Africa proves how ridiculous the claim is, especially when they somehow accuse Israel of Apartheid against people who have never lived inside Israel, the West Bank, or Gaza.

See, there you go again.

You keep pushing this antisemitic trope that its not just a few militant settlers acting as 'terrorists' by attacking Palestinian civilians, you go and say its 'random Jews' as if this the entire people.
Next you push an Islamaphobic trope and claim that Hamas, and therefore all of Gaza and therefore all Palestinians, are genocidal.
But its Israel that is killing civilians and refusing to obey international law.

Israel refuses to cooperate with UN probe into crimes committed during Gaza conflict

Israeli air strikes on the besieged Gaza Strip killed at least 248 Palestinians last May, while 12 people were reported killed by rockets launched from Gaza by Hamas

www.middleeasteye.net

Just tone it down, support equal rights.
Support basic human rights for Palestinians.
Like the vote, give Palestinians the vote.

End apartheid, end settler colonialism.

 

[basketcase]

See, there you go again.

You keep pushing this antisemitic trope that its not just a few militant settlers acting as 'terrorists' by attacking Palestinian civilians, ...

Wow. You've been backed so far into a corner that you're now claiming I'm anti-semitic.

You have repeatedly argued that Jews have no right to be in the West Bank and have repeatedly claimed attacks on random Jews are self defense while at the same time, accused me of being racist for stating that Hamas is a designated terrorist entity who's official stance is they will not accept peace with Jews in the region.


And you should support equal rights instead of demanding Israel install a unilateral peace that Palestinians detest. Palestinian self determination says they don't want to be equal citizens with Israelis.

p.s. I guess the lack of content in your post means you haven't taken the time to look at what Apartheid was. The fact that there are Arab politicians in Israel who are elected members of the governing coalition undermines the BS claim (and they say that Apartheid is not an appropriate description - not that you care what Arabs think).

 

[Frankfooter]

Wow. You've been backed so far into a corner that you're now claiming I'm anti-semitic.

You have repeatedly argued that Jews have no right to be in the West Bank

1) All settlements are illegal, as you have confirmed along with the UN and all legit legal opinions.
2) You are the one saying that the two state solution is the only one, which requires that land to be Palestine.
3) Ending apartheid is the only way forward to guarantee that all people have equal rights and equal rights to stay.

and have repeatedly claimed attacks on random Jews are self defense while at the same time, accused me of being racist for stating that Hamas is a designated terrorist entity who's official stance is they will not accept peace with Jews in the region.

No, the term 'random Jew' is one you use. I say settlers acting as militants with the backing of the IDF are acting as 'terrorists', as you, B'tselem and I agree. The difference is that you push a trope that its not militant settlers doing these attacks, instead you use a trope and say its 'random Jews' as if it could be any Jewish person in Israel committing these types of crimes. I do hope you don't believe that.

And you should support equal rights instead of demanding Israel install a unilateral peace that Palestinians detest. Palestinian self determination says they don't want to be equal citizens with Israelis.

I do support equal rights. You don't.
I back the Palestinian BDS movement, which you seem to think Palestinians 'detest'.
I have no idea why you think they detest their own movement.

p.s. I guess the lack of content in your post means you haven't taken the time to look at what Apartheid was. The fact that there are Arab politicians in Israel who are elected members of the governing coalition undermines the BS claim (and they say that Apartheid is not an appropriate description - not that you care what Arabs think).

There are now about 1500 pages of reports detailing Israeli apartheid sitting at the ICC and UN awaiting their word. The fact that there is one Palestinian politician who disagrees with the use of the term has nothing to do with the validity of their very well researched opinions.

Its clear you will do the South African plan of 'deny, deny, deny' since you have no grounds for debate any more.
Amnesty, HRW, B'tselem, Yesh Din, the UN and a very long list of Israeli politicians, not to mention 75% of Palestinians, say Israel is apartheid.

Canada should boycott apartheid.