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The Al-Soufi family is facing new threats as police investigate individuals

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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Of course the time and place to have made these worthwhile points about public order was weeks back, in the original thread about the woman's crossing being impeded.

This one is about violent threats that continue to be made against people who had no connection with that incident or with the the behaviour of those who did.
Silly me. Here I was trying to take a larger view of the problem of protest related incidents instead of myopically focusing on one small element where blame could be attached to one side or the other. What a killjoy I am to be pointing out that these problems really lie at the feet of politicians and police, rather than simply on the combatants who take advantage of their mismanagement.

I'll bear your advice in mind, but I'm not sure I'll take it.

As to your premise that the protester's family have nothing to do with what happened, you must be in possession of a lot more information than I have seen reported. All I've seen is a carefully crafted statement from the family which, while regretting the incident, falls a little short of accepting full responsibility on the part of the son. Not that the quality of their statement would justify death threats. It might, however, justify the opinion that the family is not as "misaligned" with their son's behaviour as you assume.
 

Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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Sometimes the claims are valid. Blocking someone's path by simply standing in a crosswalk is not in any way 'as bad as' sending his uninvolved family threats of arson, murder, rape and bombings? The woman whose path was blocked agrees, and she has said so publicly.

While her self-proclaimed 'defenders' continue to publicly urge violence and death in pointless after the fact retribution, she has denounced them.
Instilling fear in someone regardless of the circumstances is the same to me, blocking an old lady from going into an event can cause her to fear for her life, you don't know what the intentions are of someone blocking her, yes the threats are more radical but are meant to cause the same thing, fear, we have no idea whether these people would carry out their threats, 99% of the time threats are never carried out. Put yourself in the old lady's shoes, you need assistance to walk and young men are blocking your path to where you want to go. What would most people feel in that situation? Probably fear.
 

Knuckle Ball

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Oct 15, 2017
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Instilling fear in someone regardless of the circumstances is the same to me, blocking an old lady from going into an event can cause her to fear for her life, you don't know what the intentions are of someone blocking her, yes the threats are more radical but are meant to cause the same thing, fear, we have no idea whether these people would carry out their threats, 99% of the time threats are never carried out. Put yourself in the old lady's shoes, you need assistance to walk and young men are blocking your path to where you want to go. What would most people feel in that situation? Probably fear.
Apples and oranges. If the antifa protesters had followed the old lady home and threatened to fire bomb her house with Molotov cocktails then perhaps the comparison would be more valid.
 

Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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Apples and oranges. If the antifa protesters had followed the old lady home and threatened to fire bomb her house with Molotov cocktails then perhaps the comparison would be more valid.
It's not apples and oranges, why did they pick her out? I'm sure there were other people going to the event. Why not pick on any of them? Because they would have got their asses kicked that's why. Gutless cowards picked on someone who they knew couldn't fight back. It's reprehensible what happened to the family, I feel for them but that didn't have to close their restaurant, in fact they opened it a day or two later. I guess the threats didn't hold much water after all. The people who threatened the family are also gutless cowards. I also don't believe they were followed home by anyone. A threat is a threat, it also matters how the person who was threatened feels. If they felt threatened in both situations then it's the same in my eyes.
 

HungSowel

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Mar 3, 2017
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The right-wingers run people over with cars in their protest, but when left-wing protesters inconvenience an old lady; that is a bridge too far.
 

Knuckle Ball

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Oct 15, 2017
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It's not apples and oranges, why did they pick her out? I'm sure there were other people going to the event. Why not pick on any of them? Because they would have got their asses kicked that's why. Gutless cowards picked on someone who they knew couldn't fight back. It's reprehensible what happened to the family, I feel for them but that didn't have to close their restaurant, in fact they opened it a day or two later. I guess the threats didn't hold much water after all. The people who threatened the family are also gutless cowards. I also don't believe they were followed home by anyone. A threat is a threat, it also matters how the person who was threatened feels. If they felt threatened in both situations then it's the same in my eyes.
I feel very threatened by your post. Does that mean that my fear should be taken just as seriously as the parents who got threatened to have their restaurant fire bombed?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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It wasn't an anti-immigration rally that that elder lady was stopped from attending. It was a political meeting for Maxime Bernier but feel free to twist the facts and insult an old lady. I guess you only agree with free speech when it is speech that you agree with. Typical.
Yet one of the major platforms of Bernier's party is being anti-immigrant.

p.s. I've never spoken to the old woman in question but age is no barrier to virulent racism.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Most of these problems are attributable to ludicrous policing policy that no one, either politicians or police, is ever held to account for. The right to protest does not include the right to interfere with the rights of others to enter buildings, or interfere with the rights of others to drive on the public roadways, or to do anything else that would otherwise be a violation of the law.
...


Death threats are, of course, wrong. Are these threats online? Does anyone have a link? Google produced lots of stories describing the threats, but I gave up after 20 links when none of them reproduced any of them.
Not only attempts to blame the victims because their son is an activist but also starting conspiracy theories.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Silly me. Here I was trying to take a larger view of the problem of protest related incidents instead of myopically focusing on one small element where blame could be attached to one side or the other. ....
It's sad that your political agenda has you describing repeated death threats as "one small element".
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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Not only attempts to blame the victims because their son is an activist but also starting conspiracy theories.
I can't follow your reasoning. My post did neither of the things you claim.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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It's sad that your political agenda has you describing repeated death threats as "one small element".
The online (or otherwise) feuding that takes place following a public political confrontation is just one small element of what is a larger public order issue - how do you provide people with the opportunity to exercise their freedom of expression while at the same time reducing the number of instances where the rights of others are violated in the process.

As to the death threats, do you have a link to exactly what was said to the family?
 

Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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I feel very threatened by your post. Does that mean that my fear should be taken just as seriously as the parents who got threatened to have their restaurant fire bombed?
Sorry you feel threatened by my post, you must be afraid of your own shadow if that's the case. Think about it an anonymous post or letter or someone standing right in front of you, who poses the more imminent threat. You have no idea what the intentions are of someone standing in front of you and blocking your path. Like I said before the Al-Soufi family felt threatened at first but re=opened their restaurant a day or two later, I guess they didn't feel that threatened after all. Lots of people get brave online because they are faceless and nameless. 99.9% of the time it amounts to nothing. A person standing in front of you poses a bigger threat than some internet troll. That's just my opinion, I know you don't agree.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Instilling fear in someone regardless of the circumstances is the same to me, blocking an old lady from going into an event can cause her to fear for her life, you don't know what the intentions are of someone blocking her, yes the threats are more radical but are meant to cause the same thing, fear, we have no idea whether these people would carry out their threats, 99% of the time threats are never carried out. Put yourself in the old lady's shoes, you need assistance to walk and young men are blocking your path to where you want to go. What would most people feel in that situation? Probably fear.
I'll give you your invented 99% of threats that are never carried out, but only if you tell us how to recognize and distinguish the deadly 1% that are. With news cameras and police aplenty attending that public political event, and her companion at hers side I really doubt the lady had any reasonable fear for her life at the hands of a silent protester standing motionless with his hands in his pockets, and making no threats at all.

Clearly the deranged threateners have no concept of proportionality, but surely you do. Why are you defending or excusing them?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Silly me. Here I was trying to take a larger view of the problem of protest related incidents instead of myopically focusing on one small element where blame could be attached to one side or the other. What a killjoy I am to be pointing out that these problems really lie at the feet of politicians and police, rather than simply on the combatants who take advantage of their mismanagement.

I'll bear your advice in mind, but I'm not sure I'll take it.

As to your premise that the protester's family have nothing to do with what happened, you must be in possession of a lot more information than I have seen reported. All I've seen is a carefully crafted statement from the family which, while regretting the incident, falls a little short of accepting full responsibility on the part of the son. Not that the quality of their statement would justify death threats. It might, however, justify the opinion that the family is not as "misaligned" with their son's behaviour as you assume.
And silly me, I was just pointing out how sad it was that it took death threats to a family with no connection to such protests to rouse you to that helpful contribution.

I have no idea what you might have intended when you said the family's statement, "falls a little short of accepting full responsibility on the part of the son", and perhaps you could clarify what their "full responsibility on the part of the son" requires. You're entitled to even a mere suspicion that they might have something to do with what happened, but to cite that unproven suspicion in this context is to ally your thinking with the despicable threateners who were working with exactly that same pre-judice.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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And silly me, I was just pointing out how sad it was that it took death threats to a family with no connection to such protests to rouse you to that helpful contribution.

I have no idea what you might have intended when you said the family's statement, "falls a little short of accepting full responsibility on the part of the son", and perhaps you could clarify what their "full responsibility on the part of the son" requires. You're entitled to even a mere suspicion that they might have something to do with what happened, but to cite that unproven suspicion in this context is to ally your thinking with the despicable threateners who were working with exactly that same pre-judice.
According to the family, the son thought he was going to an anti-terrorist rally: https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2019/10/soufis-restaurant-toronto-antifa-hamilton/. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that story for a second, given that, again according to his family, this was far from his first social justice protest. Also, even if I gave the story the smallest shred of credence, upon his arrival at the protest he would have been completely disabused of his "misunderstanding". This aspect of the family's statement is meant to paint their son as the dupe of a radical organizer who mislead him as to what the protest was all about and the people they were there to oppose. It doesn't hold water. In my view, its far more believable that the son understood the nature of the protest, and understood the wide ranging nature of those who would be attending the event. The family says he "made a mistake", but what exactly was his mistake? Was it blocking the path of an elderly woman, or was it also protesting and interfering with what was a political speaking event organized by an accredited political party?

Parents who try to smooth things over for their kids by watering down the truth are: 1) not helping their child understand the full gravity of their actions, and 2) sending a message to the community that full responsibility won't be taken when "mistakes" are made. I'm not impressed with either. Full responsibility means, in this case, acknowledging that the son knew full well what the nature of the protest was, and assuring that the family has impressed upon him the importance of respecting the rights of others to hear political presentations and that, in no instance, is it ok to physically prevent people from attending such events. I agree with the part of their statement that says a single mistake shouldn't doom a child/young adult, but without unvarnished correction, I can't see how the public could really expect the son to change his behaviour.

As to the death threats, of course (as I've already said) they are always wrong. They can't be justified, whether on my analysis of why the family apology is lacking, or even on more serious shortcomings. However, many people claim to be, or to feel, threatened who aren't, especially when there is something to be gained by being a victim. I haven't seen the threats reproduced in any reporting. I'm a "seeing is believing" type of news consumer. Do you know where these threats can be viewed? I'll happily acknowledge them as death threats if that's what they are.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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I'll give you your invented 99% of threats that are never carried out, but only if you tell us how to recognize and distinguish the deadly 1% that are. With news cameras and police aplenty attending that public political event, and her companion at hers side I really doubt the lady had any reasonable fear for her life at the hands of a silent protester standing motionless with his hands in his pockets, and making no threats at all.

Clearly the deranged threateners have no concept of proportionality, but surely you do. Why are you defending or excusing them?
I'm not defending them, It was uncalled for and I feel for the family. I might have been generous with the 99% it probably closer to 99.99%. Do you know how many people get threatened online on a daily basis? It's not a small number. I found a link here where schools average 70 threats per day since Parkland.https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2...school-The-scramble-to-balance-safety-justice. I just think a bigger threat is someone who is face to face with you than some nameless, faceless online troll. People tend to be much b********** behind a computer. I will say, I think it's disgusting what happened to his family but as far as he goes, i have no sympathy for him. He singled out a person who he thought was weak and tried ti intimidate her, He's a gutless coward.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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I'm not defending them, It was uncalled for and I feel for the family. I might have been generous with the 99% it probably closer to 99.99%. Do you know how many people get threatened online on a daily basis? It's not a small number. I found a link here where schools average 70 threats per day since Parkland.https://www.csmonitor.com/EqualEd/2...school-The-scramble-to-balance-safety-justice. I just think a bigger threat is someone who is face to face with you than some nameless, faceless online troll. People tend to be much b********** behind a computer. I will say, I think it's disgusting what happened to his family but as far as he goes, i have no sympathy for him. He singled out a person who he thought was weak and tried ti intimidate her, He's a gutless coward.
That's not correct.
He was there, but according to the videos he wasn't the one who blocked the old, suspected nazi, lady.

Its disgusting to falsely accuse someone of something when the evidence you provide shows them to be likely innocent.
 

Gooseifur

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Aug 13, 2019
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That's not correct.
He was there, but according to the videos he wasn't the one who blocked the old, suspected nazi, lady.

Its disgusting to falsely accuse someone of something when the evidence you provide shows them to be likely innocent.
Wrong again, he wasn't innocent, he's the guy in the orange shirt with two other tough guys blocking her way, try again.

It's disgusting to falsley accuse someone of something when there is no evidence. You call her a nazi, Do you in fact know she is a nazi? please enlighten us.

https://globalnews.ca/video/5972325...event-including-senior-with-a-walker-incident
that's him in the orange shirt
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Wrong again, he wasn't innocent, he's the guy in the orange shirt with two other tough guys blocking her way, try again.

It's disgusting to falsley accuse someone of something when there is no evidence. You call her a nazi, Do you in fact know she is a nazi? please enlighten us.

https://globalnews.ca/video/5972325...event-including-senior-with-a-walker-incident
that's him in the orange shirt
He was standing there but not blocking her way. It was the two other individuals who were blocking her off. At first even I thought that he was the one doing it.
But do you think it justifies trying to pick on his parents, with death threats, and then trying to prevent the re-opening of their restaurant by the three despicable far right protesters??

Watch the full video in this link:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6006967/soufis-restaurant-closing-toronto/

He was not even the one to utter that abhorrent language against the woman, but is bearing the brunt of the responsibility for the actions of the other two, who did the blocking and the name calling!!
 
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