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Even Henry Kissinger Gets It... US "Exceptionalism" Is Over

jcpro

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Yes

Strongest military in the world
Largest companies in the world
Largest economy in the world
Best universities in the world
The worlds technology leader

Really, how much of a Napoleon complex do you Canucks have....
We identity ourselves for what we are not. The Americans. Canada is a post identity society. It has been that since we disassociated ourselves from the British Dominion.
 

apoptygma

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Dec 31, 2017
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Yes

Strongest military in the world
Largest companies in the world
Largest economy in the world
Best universities in the world
The worlds technology leader

Really, how much of a Napoleon complex do you Canucks have....
Highest incarceration rate of a 'first world' country.
Worst healthcare system of a 'first world' country.

Not to mention, with each passing week, becoming more and more of an international laughing-stock.
 

onthebottom

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Highest incarceration rate of a 'first world' country.
Worst healthcare system of a 'first world' country.

Not to mention, with each passing week, becoming more and more of an international laughing-stock.
Actually, best healthcare system in the world, as danmand.

Given the state of the ROW I’d take that as a compliment if it were true, which it isn’t.

I should have added, #1 destination for immigrants
 

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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Fixed your post for you.
Actually, you get as good healthcare (for pay) in Paris, London, Dubai, South Africa as in USA.

Don't ever worry about rich people not getting health care.
 

apoptygma

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Actually, you get as good healthcare (for pay) in Paris, London, Dubai, South Africa as in USA.

Don't ever worry about rich people not getting health care.
I wasn't worried.
Just seems to be that OTB's definition is 'best healthcare in the world' is what the 1% can afford.
 

onthebottom

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onthebottom

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Actually I removed the BS from your post for you and inserted reality.
You're welcome.
I realize you don’t understand our healthcare system, why you bother to comment on it is your own issue to work out.
 

apoptygma

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I realize you don’t understand our healthcare system, why you bother to comment on it is your own issue to work out.
I understand that you can't comprehend that inaccessible health care isn't "the world's best" healthcare... but that is your our issue to work out.
 

Butler1000

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I realize you don’t understand our healthcare system, why you bother to comment on it is your own issue to work out.
It's easy to understand. If you can't afford it you will die.
 

onthebottom

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It's easy to understand. If you can't afford it you will die.
See, you don’t understand it.

The poor have coverage, the old have coverage, the workinghave coverage, students have coverage. To say 1% have good healthcare is to be an idiot
 

danmand

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See, you don’t understand it.

The poor have coverage, the old have coverage, the workinghave coverage, students have coverage. To say 1% have good healthcare is to be an idiot
I do not consider you stupid. My question is, why can a seemingly intelligent person like you not see the impossible inconsistency in your views:

1. Everybody has healthcare.

2. We cannot afford to give everybody healthcare.
 

Butler1000

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See, you don’t understand it.

The poor have coverage, the old have coverage, the workinghave coverage, students have coverage. To say 1% have good healthcare is to be an idiot
No they don't. 87 million with either no insurance or deductibles and co-pays so high they might as well not have it for most things.

There are people who are dying because they can't afford insulin at 300 a pop (the exact same product is 30 bucks in Canada)

Maybe in your little world in Chicago it's great. But in large swaths of the nation it's shit.
 

onthebottom

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No they don't. 87 million with either no insurance or deductibles and co-pays so high they might as well not have it for most things.

There are people who are dying because they can't afford insulin at 300 a pop (the exact same product is 30 bucks in Canada)

Maybe in your little world in Chicago it's great. But in large swaths of the nation it's shit.
I live in Ohio

8.5% of people in the US are uninsured. Those included illegal immigrants (which could be half of that)

67% get private coverage
31% from Medicare and Medicare

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19186532/Screen_Shot_2019_09_10_at_12.06.11_PM.png
 

WyattEarp

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Americans have coverage. They just don't have the same exact coverage. That seems to be a sticking point for the Left.

Butler, you are correct many people with private insurance have high deductibles. These also tend to be people who can afford high deductibles (or higher premiums with lower deductibles).
 

danmand

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Americans have coverage. They just don't have the same exact coverage. That seems to be a sticking point for the Left.

Butler, you are correct many people with private insurance have high deductibles. These also tend to be people who can afford high deductibles (or higher premiums with lower deductibles).
Then I ask you the same question as I ask OTB: Why would it then be impossibly expensive to give everybody coverage?
 

WyattEarp

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Then I ask you the same question as I ask OTB: Why would it then be impossibly expensive to give everybody coverage?
I believe we have moved towards "giving" healthcare to more people based on need. I have not come to the conclusion that our government should "give" it to everyone. I am open-minded on the issue though.

I think government as a single payer inevitably involves price controls and other restrictions. It is likely easy for a smaller country to initiate single payer and lower prices without impacting the overall quality vis-a-vis the United States. Without boast, U.S. citizens pay the freight on many drug and medical device breakthroughs.
 

danmand

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I think government as a single payer inevitably involves price controls and other restrictions.
So you agree that it would not be impossibly expensive. Good

Now, the argument that there would be price controls and restrictions, is not founded in reality. Most Americans have stricter restrictions on their healthcare programs (being it Medicare or a Managed Health Care system) than the Universal Health care systems in Canada and even more so in Western continental Europe.



It is likely easy for a smaller country to initiate single payer and lower prices without impacting the overall quality vis-a-vis the United States.
Sure, it is easier for a smaller country, but then again economies of scale should favour a bigger country.

Don't forget that USA is the worlds leader in management of big organizations (one example is the military).


Without boast, U.S. citizens pay the freight on many drug and medical device breakthroughs.
You will have to provide some data to prove that claim. While Medications are more expensive in USA than everywhere else, I am not sure most new medical developments are done in USA.
 

onthebottom

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I do not consider you stupid. My question is, why can a seemingly intelligent person like you not see the impossible inconsistency in your views:

1. Everybody has healthcare.

2. We cannot afford to give everybody healthcare.
Nearly everyone has heath insurance, I’d argue everyone who wants (young) or qualifies (are in the country legally) has health insurance. It is a complex system with cracks, I won’t argue that.

The real issue is that it’s a Cadillac (or for you Mercedes) system with massive capacity (it took me less than 24 hrs to schedule an Open MRI 10min from my house for a condition that would be considered very low priority), massive specialization, and drug costs that subsidize the ROW (another issue I agree with Trump on).

Warren is already dealing with lower poll numbers based on her support of Medicare for all. It’s not politically viable because the costs are incredible at the current service levels.
 
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