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Doug Ford new leader of Ontario PC party

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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The more the Election is turned into nothing but a Dump Wynn Vote, the harder it will be for Doug or Andrea to win. Because they'll really be preaching to their own small, and almost equal-sized choirs, and they'll likely not attract many new members. If that's all their campaigns amount to watch Kathleen finish with the largest seat count, even if it isn't a majority.

What they both have to do is turn that Dump'er energy into 'I'm the Better Replacement' you other folks have been looking for. I don't think Dougie's got it in him, and the baggage his choir admired just turns off folks like me. Whether Andrea can do it remains to be seen.

The 600 pound gorilla under this next bed, like in Trump v. Clinton, and the win Dougie just finagled is the extent to which 'thoughtful, rational' votes for the only guy in the race would never ever go to a woman anyway.
The conservatives (under Ford or anyone else) were always going to run on more than "Dump Wynne". They will run on changing course on: tax policy, energy policy, health care policy, and many other planks. In the US, Clinton couldn't offer change, because she didn't believe any was required, and had ownership in some of the policies Trump promised to change.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,896
68,400
113
Latest poll shows a 48% disapproval rate of Douffo - and he hasn't even started to campaign yet. (Because we know, the more he opens his mouth, the more that disapproval rate will climb).
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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The conservatives (under Ford or anyone else) were always going to run on more than "Dump Wynne". They will run on changing course on: tax policy, energy policy, health care policy, and many other planks. In the US, Clinton couldn't offer change, because she didn't believe any was required, and had ownership in some of the policies Trump promised to change.
Trouble is having voted for and announced their changes in a fancy document already, that's what they're shooting themselves in the foot trying to change now. Their own Official Platform.

And whenever you talk about Trump besting Clinton, you need to be reminded that voters disagreed with you and picked her, rejecting his message by an even larger margin than they approved hers. And what's come out so far indicates PC voters similarly preferred Elliot. In both case it was rules not voters that prevailed. By such mechanisms, almost any result you want can be rigged, just don't pretend 'it's what the people wanted'.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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And whenever you talk about Trump besting Clinton, you need to be reminded that voters disagreed with you and picked her, rejecting his message by an even larger margin than they approved hers. And what's come out so far indicates PC voters similarly preferred Elliot. In both case it was rules not voters that prevailed. By such mechanisms, almost any result you want can be rigged, just don't pretend 'it's what the people wanted'.
I hereby bestow a "lifetime achievement award" on this argument. Since you've presented this argument to me so many times before (without persuading me), and because I doubt there are any new eyeballs to enlighten, you could probably retire this argument at this point.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
10,848
2,078
113
The conservatives (under Ford or anyone else) were always going to run on more than "Dump Wynne". They will run on changing course on: tax policy, energy policy, health care policy, and many other planks.
Just run on 'Dump Wynne' - the more Ford and the conservatives take advantage of the odds to put in controversial and/or radical changes to government - the more danger of people pausing to wondering if they are running from one fire straight into another. PC's have a history snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

My hope is for a minority PC government as I find majority of either party results in disaster as arrogance sets in. I believe this so much - I would consider reversing my vote if it sounds like a landslide in party's favour.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
69,896
68,400
113
Just run on 'Dump Wynne' - the more Ford and the conservatives take advantage of the odds to put in controversial and/or radical changes to government - the more danger of people pausing to wondering if they are running from one fire straight into another. PC's have a history snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

My hope is for a minority PC government as I find majority of either party results in disaster as arrogance sets in. I believe this so much - I would consider reversing my vote if it sounds like a landslide in party's favour.
How about minority Wynn with the NDP holding the balance of power??? Because the NDP isn't likely to support Douffo and a Tory minority, now is it???

So unless Douffo gets a majority, the PC's are shut out again and we all go NDP pinko!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
How about minority Wynn with the NDP holding the balance of power??? Because the NDP isn't likely to support Douffo and a Tory minority, now is it???

So unless Douffo gets a majority, the PC's are shut out again and we all go NDP pinko!!
Wynne's approval rating is at 19%. I see a minority govt but more like NDP on top.

Its going to depend on how much social messaging comes up. The Liberals will have great difficulty running on their record.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
10,848
2,078
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Wynne's approval rating is at 19%. I see a minority govt but more like NDP on top.
Would Wynne accept the second banana spot ? As long as Wynne is out. Even if it is a minority - it will only last a couple years at most and Doug F can have a little time to show his stuff. I will hope NDP & Wynne can't agree and Doug gets a minority government. I am a little nervous of giving him card blanche weeks after just getting the PC leadership.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
170
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Latest poll shows a 48% disapproval rate of Douffo - and he hasn't even started to campaign yet. (Because we know, the more he opens his mouth, the more that disapproval rate will climb).
That Forum poll you're citing said that if the election were held today, the Conservatives would win a majority:

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...e-voters-dislike-of-doug-ford-poll-finds.html

Furthermore, it had the Liberals finishing third.

I think Margaret Wente may have it right in her latest column in the Globe and Mail. Wynne is hugely unpopular (going by some polls, Wynne's popularity is less than half of Donald Trump's). Many people may hold their noses and vote for Doug just to get rid of the Liberals.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-could-the-doug-win-of-course/
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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Preferential ballots and equally weighted ridings: How the Ontario PCs choose their leaders

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/ontario-pcs-electoral-college-leadership-vote-1.4571542
Once again the CBC fills the vacuum that's all Our Dear Leaders think we deserve.

Kinda interesting that late this morning, when I looked on the OPC site for anything on the results or the rules, there was nothing there. The most recent item on their News page was a press release from the since-resigned President dated January 27, although someone had plugged a Dougie pic and paragraph into the Leader page.What size the riding associations are, where the 'bonusing' kicks in, or any details about how the PCs relocated whole towns to other ridings were nowhere to be found, let alone actual vote counts and 'weighting' calculations.

But b now they've splashed Ford's win across it, dropped the Dykstra PR piece and included the Leadership Chair's statement officially announcing the result. Still nowhere to be seen are actual rules or numbers. But why would there be with no candidate objecting? For all my unsatisfied electoral nerd curiosity, that's right in line with the classic Meeting procedure after an Election, where the Chair invites a motion to destroy the Ballots.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
170
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Looking at some of the coverage today, I think there's a very real possibility the ballot question will be about the future of "carbon pricing" in Ontario.

If so, keep a watch on what individual Liberal candidates are saying about it. If some of them start to stray from the party line and start floating the idea of opening the issue up to "consultations" and the like, you'll know where the election is headed.
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
58
48
hornyville
If so, keep a watch on what individual Liberal candidates are saying about it. If some of them start to stray from the party line and start floating the idea of opening the issue up to "consultations" and the like, you'll know where the election is headed.
Too much damn taxes!

Only the Liberal Party of Ontario believes the electorate loves being over-taxed, and watch the government run deficits, (which means us over-taxed will be even more over-taxed in the future).

The worst part is how the self-serving public unions hector us about paying our fair share.

Now is the time for fiscal vengeance. We've been waiting a long time for this.

If Ford wins this election, and if he wins the next election, the next election is his chance to cripple the public service unions in Ontario for good.

Patience. Play the long game.

:beguiled:
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,819
1,603
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NOw Ford claims he might open up pot sales to private business. Hmmmm..... Sort of a clash between the social and economic conservatives coming?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
NOw Ford claims he might open up pot sales to private business. Hmmmm..... Sort of a clash between the social and economic conservatives coming?
Hey, it's a business he knows.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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I hereby bestow a "lifetime achievement award" on this argument. Since you've presented this argument to me so many times before (without persuading me), and because I doubt there are any new eyeballs to enlighten, you could probably retire this argument at this point.
Actually I offer it to all who read it, you may be the only one, and I do appreciate the invitation to expand on it when you reply, but it's not your special present. When you or anyone offers any persuasive counter-arguments I might indeed retire it. Until I hear at least one, I'll continue to believe and advocate that real democracy requires real equality in voting. Other minds may be more open than yours.

Whatever good intentions may attach to distortions such as disproportionately under-populated rural districts, and over-populated urban ones, the results are clearly unfair and unbalanced if each gets equal representation. The more rules and tinkering we add to hide the imbalances, the further we get from seeing justice done, and the emptier are the claims for archaic holdovers from the days of aristocratic privilege like the American system.

What's wrong with one person, one vote and equal representation?
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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Actually I offer it to all who read it, you may be the only one, and I do appreciate the invitation to expand on it when you reply, but it's not your special present. When you or anyone offers any persuasive counter-arguments I might indeed retire it. Until I hear at least one, I'll continue to believe and advocate that real democracy requires real equality in voting. Other minds may be more open than yours.
Since you've never answered the counter arguments presented, other than to repeat your argument, I would say the debate is over.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
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Since you've never answered the counter arguments presented, other than to repeat your argument, I would say the debate is over.
As I've said: What counter-arguments? There hasn't been anyone who cared to actually debate electoral topics since fuji,. Like yours, the other responses have amounted to, "give it a rest", not debate.

So I keep pointing out the illegitimacy of rigged votes and the superiority of universal suffrage. If you don't care to think about such stuff that's your option, but telling me certainly won't decrease my commitment to the concept.
 
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