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The 2017 Blue Jay season thread

black booty lover

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Oct 21, 2007
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The 15 - 14 Jays win over the Phillies was more exciting in my opinion. That was a helluva game.


This was probably my all time favorite game.

The JB bat flip game is right up there because of all the craziness that went on before and after it.
 

Nad Smith

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Nov 23, 2004
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So your gonna let the players off the hook eh?
Not really...but perhaps with better managing and coaching they would have done better. My main point remains that 3 playoff teams plus the Tigers did not accept the results and made a managerial change....we stand pat after finishing a distant fourth.

In horse racing, if a good horse does not finish first, after a few tries...the owner gets a new jockey . It is no guarantee but at least you are trying something
 

Dawgger

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Not really...but perhaps with better managing and coaching they would have done better. My main point remains that 3 playoff teams plus the Tigers did not accept the results and made a managerial change....we stand pat after finishing a distant fourth.

In horse racing, if a good horse does not finish first, after a few tries...the owner gets a new jockey . It is no guarantee but at least you are trying something
Your horse racing comparison is not necessarily true. If a horse isn't successful sometimes the rider, or driver will accept a mount or ride from a different trainer. Unless the driver is seen to be the cause of the horses inability to win, he will pretty much keep his ride depending on the quality of the horse.
Gibbons is not the biggest problem the Jays have. Injuries killed them last year, Donaldson Tulo Travis Martin(actually most of the catching staff), starting pitching, at one point they had Stroman and not much else. Pearce was out a couple of times and then Pillar made the comment, got suspended and began to suck offensively. OF called up fell like bowling pins. Probably missed a few.
Crap, even you couldn't win with the bodies they were left!
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Not really...but perhaps with better managing and coaching they would have done better. My main point remains that 3 playoff teams plus the Tigers did not accept the results and made a managerial change....we stand pat after finishing a distant fourth.
The Yankees and Red Sox had loaded rosters. The Jays had a roster of popguns compared to their Cannons. Invalid comparisons.

So if the Jays had a better manager and coaching staff do you think they would have beaten either of those two teams. Please be realistic.
 

Nad Smith

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I don't think the gap was or is that wide....but my answer to your question is I believe the Jays would be better with another manager, pitching coach, and maybe third base coach and batting coach. All our chatter here is that he Jays will remain competitive and maybe even better in a couple years when Bichette and Guerrero are major leaguers........

I do not dislike John Gibbons. I rarely disagree with his in game moves - I did not like some of his bizarre line ups. I just think there is too much acceptance of mediocrity.
 

Keebler Elf

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Aug 31, 2001
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Barring a catastrophic mistake, the coaches make at best a 10% difference in the outcome. So that's about 16 games a season. Not irrelevant but also not huge. If you don't have the talent, swapping around deck chairs on the Titanic isn't going to make a lick of difference to whether the ship goes down or not.

People are looking for explanations that aren't there. The Jays had a terrible year in terms of injuries and performance. Period. Full Stop. It wasn't the coaching. It wasn't the GM. It wasn't the ownership.

Either they'll turn those two things around next year or we're in for another bad season.
 

teassoc

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The Yankees and Red Sox had loaded rosters. The Jays had a roster of popguns compared to their Cannons. Invalid comparisons.

So if the Jays had a better manager and coaching staff do you think they would have beaten either of those two teams. Please be realistic.
Nad is simply saying the Jays would be better under another manager. Whilst I know his players like him he might not be the best available guy.

For the record, did the Jays not lead the Yankees in match-ups this season? You could say that's despite having Gibbons as a manager.

Not a lot of changes would have helped this past season with all the injuries but it might help going forward.
 

black booty lover

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I just think there is too much acceptance of mediocrity.

This is such a cliché thing to say. There are 30 teams in MLB. 12 Teams make the playoffs, 4 of which barely do. That means the other 18 teams, unless they fire their manager are accepting mediocrity. These are all pro players, pro coaches all trying to compete. For tons of reasons, it works out some years for a team, and some years it doesn't, and usually very little to do with the manager. John Farrell got the boot, because his players didn't like him.(does that equate a player performing bad? Impossible to quantify, I don't believe so) Dave Dombrowski really should have been the one that got the axe. Joe Girardi wanted more money, so the Yankees opted not to give him a new contract. That should give you an idea of how much the Yankees feel about the worth of a manager.

Firing your manager for the most part, is more of a marketing tool, and the public buy into it. "Next year we should be better, because we have a new manager. Don't stop watching the games or buying tickets. We're getting a new manager, and things will be different".

Both Girardi and Farrell won the WS not to long ago, but now they some how lost that skill set.

I find it very refreshing when a team says "hey, it's not the manager. He can only do so much. We're not gonna waste money firing a guy who we'll still have to pay, hire another someone else, and probably end up with the same result because it was more a talent and injury issue, than a guy who sits on the bench making a handful of calls a night to change pitchers or pinch run".

The Jays were a were a below .500 team this year for many different reasons , and if you think swopping the manager is the way to fix it because we then won't be accepting "mediocrity", your entitled to your opinion, but my guess is you could have gotten "the worlds best baseball manager" (whoever that is), and you would have pretty much the same result with this team. So why focus on the manager when there's much bigger fish to fry?

I posted this, then saw Keebler's post. Haha!
 
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shack

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Nad is simply saying the Jays would be better under another manager.
I suspect that even with a better manager they would have done no better than 3rd in the division this season with that roster. As such, he would have called for any manager to be fired because finishing 3rd is mediocre.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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This is possibly turning into the greatest World Series I've ever seen
 

saxon

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Stanton on the trade block, should the Jays make a big offer and bring him to Toronto? I have a feeling the Dodgers will end up getting him and will dominate the NL for years to come.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Stanton on the trade block, should the Jays make a big offer and bring him to Toronto? I have a feeling the Dodgers will end up getting him and will dominate the NL for years to come
No offence, but he has a lifetime BA of .268, isnt he another "homerun hitter or nothing" type player??
 

eguapo

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No offence, but he has a lifetime BA of .268, isnt he another "homerun hitter or nothing" type player??
Ummm maybe teams find his .360 career OBP attractive or his OPS+ of 146 which means his overall hitting has been 46% better than an average MLB hitter. By comparison the Jays “best” expected returning OF has a career OBP of .303 and OPS+ of a pathetic 85.

Makes perfect sense for a team with an entire OF that is an offensive black hole.
 

shack

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Makes perfect sense for a team with an entire OF that is an offensive black hole.
Yet some will say that the Jays poor showing last year was Gibbons' fault. And in my opinion the Jays' middle infield was even worse offensively than the OF.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Ummm maybe teams find his .360 career OBP attractive or his OPS+ of 146 which means his overall hitting has been 46% better than an average MLB hitter. By comparison the Jays “best” expected returning OF has a career OBP of .303 and OPS+ of a pathetic 85.

Makes perfect sense for a team with an entire OF that is an offensive black hole
Okay fair points.

I'm just worried Jays (might) sign another one-dimensional offensive player, thats all
 

smitherz

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Dec 9, 2002
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The concern with Stanton is his injury history. He’s lost about as much time to various ailments as Tulo did at the same age.
We’ve seen how badly Tulo has aged and he’s only just turned 33.
Stanton has 11 years left on his massive contract that takes him to age 38. He also has a no-trade clause so he can control what team he’s traded to and demand additional compensation to get any deal completed.

Would you part with Vlad Jr and Bichette to bring in Stanton ? That’s likely where trade talks start.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts