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Jerusalem decision will precipitate greater chaos.

cye

Active member
Jul 11, 2008
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To be fair they had to destroy the Palestinian village to save the Zionist State. It always had to be that way and now it looks they’re not sure what to build.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Actually Israel is run by refugees, pretty equal numbers chased from Europe and Arab lands. Difference is those refugees have focussed on building a country instead of destroying one.
Difference is that those refugees made refugees out of those who were living there at the time.
Which is why there are 5 million Palestinian refugees that Israel won't let come back to their homes.

Just because you're a refugee doesn't excuse you from war crimes.

Israel now supports BDS.
End the campaign.

BDS Supporters: No Need to Boycott Israeli Film Festival in Paris, 'Israel Is Already Doing It!'
BDS supporters cite Israel's culture minister, who doesn't want Paris film festival to open with 'Foxtrot,' a movie she says sullies Israel and its army
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ott-film-festival-israel-already-is-1.5811016

Israel can no longer say that BDS is wrong.
 
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Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Actually Israel is run by refugees, pretty equal numbers chased from Europe and Arab lands. Difference is those refugees have focussed on building a country instead of destroying one.
True enough.

My point was about the Palestinians who have spent 70 years claiming to be "refugees," which really has just made them wards of the U.N. (and the overwhelming majority of whom are descendents who never lived in Israel and aren't really "refugees" at all).

As they proved in Gaza, they couldn't build a damn thing.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Difference is that those refugees made refugees out of those who were living there at the time.....
Yes, the Palestinians were made refugees when they and the Arab states rejected Partition and launched a war and those same Arab states still refuse to respect the UN Convention on Refugees. They then compounded their crimes against humanity by chasing almost a million Jews out of their ancestral homes over a political conflict that had nothing to do with them.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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True enough.

My point was about the Palestinians who have spent 70 years claiming to be "refugees," which really has just made them wards of the U.N. (and the overwhelming majority of whom are descendents who never lived in Israel and aren't really "refugees" at all)...
And polling says they don't want to be Israeli. But why would Franky care what the Palestinians actually want.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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True enough.

My point was about the Palestinians who have spent 70 years claiming to be "refugees," which really has just made them wards of the U.N. (and the overwhelming majority of whom are descendents who never lived in Israel and aren't really "refugees" at all).

As they proved in Gaza, they couldn't build a damn thing.
Its pretty hard to build anything when Israel won't let in cement or building supplies, and you're only allowed 3 hours of electricity.
United Nations officials warn that Gaza is nearing total collapse, with medical supplies dwindling, clinics closing and 12-hour power failures threatening hospitals. The water is almost entirely undrinkable, and raw sewage is befouling beaches and fishing grounds. Israeli officials and aid workers are bracing for a cholera outbreak any day.

Israel has blockaded Gaza for more than a decade, with severe restrictions on the flow of goods into the territory and people out of it, hoping to contain Hamas and also, perhaps, to pressure Gazans to eventually oust the group from power.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/11/...l-gaza-hamas-palestinian-authority-abbas.html

Creating the Gaza death camp is incredibly horrible and stupid.

If the situation in Gaza doesn't improve, desperate Palestinians will have one place to go: Israel
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-israel-gaza-palestinians-20180210-story.html
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Its pretty hard to build anything when Israel won't let in cement or building supplies, and you're only allowed 3 hours of electricity....
1) Outright lies. Israel lets lots of construction materials in. They provide it to aid organizations rather than the corrupt Hamas terrorists who are actively trying to destroy Israel.

2) If Hamas spent money on infrastructure instead of wasting it on personal luxury and terror, there would be plenty of electricity.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
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Its pretty hard to build anything when Israel won't let in cement or building supplies, and you're only allowed 3 hours of electricity.
You have conveniently forgotten that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005 and the Palestinians were provided with an opportunity and the resources to create a thriving economy.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/jonathan-kay-leaving-gaza-was-ariel-sharons-masterstroke

Instead, they squandered the opportunity and used it to escalate their terrorist attacks on Jews.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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1) Outright lies.
There are only about 370 trucks delivering food and goods into Gaza daily, and its at near starvation levels.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-ga...ael-rather-than-world-appears-most-concerned/

Hardly anything is being rebuilt as a result of economic strangulation by Israel.
Unemployment rates reached a new high in 2017, standing at 46.6 percent in the third quarter of the year, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics.

According to the report, only 30 percent of the required cement was allowed into Gaza since the last Israeli offensive against the Strip, citing the Israeli blockade and the "futility" of the UN mechanism.

The shortage in cement import was evident in the number of homes reconstructed of 5,755 out of 11,000 houses that were completely demolished.

The number of homes under construction is 818, said the report, and 602 others are in the pipeline, while 3,825 others are still awaiting a funding possibility.

Almost 4,500 household are still without homes and the financial gap of home destroyed completely reached 3,800, while 56,000 others were partially destroyed.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-12/31/c_136863375.htm

Gaza has turned into a death camp.
Never again.
 

jsanchez

Well-known member
Apr 8, 2004
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T.O.
They do have a good leader, Barghouti, but Israel has kept him in prison and propped up Abbas, who has helped stop Palestinian protests and actions.
And yes, Israel has also made use of the Hamas/Fatah divide to play sides against each other.

But really, look at Oslo. The 'peace talks' were just used as a stalling technique while Israel put half a million 'settlers' in Palestine to claim that land for 'land swaps'.

Israel has done exactly as they've wanted and what they did was create an apartheid state and kill the two state solution.
So stupid.
So your beef with Abbas is the fact that he helped stop Palestinian "actions"? if those actions meant shooting or blowing up innocents then I'd say he's done the right thing.

Barghouti might or might not have become a good leader, but he wasn't the one negotiating and calling the shots, he was jailed in 2002 and Arafat died in 2004, so no they've never had good leadership. Maybe Oslo was a failure but this long conflict cannot be reduced to just Oslo.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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So your beef with Abbas is the fact that he helped stop Palestinian "actions"? if those actions meant shooting or blowing up innocents then I'd say he's done the right thing.

Barghouti might or might not have become a good leader, but he wasn't the one negotiating and calling the shots, he was jailed in 2002 and Arafat died in 2004, so no they've never had good leadership. Maybe Oslo was a failure but this long conflict cannot be reduced to just Oslo.
My beef isn't that he stopped actions, more that he's just corrupt and inept. He allowed the Oslo accords to be used as a stalling technique while Israel built settlements and killed the two state solution.
And yes, Oslo isn't the real issue, since taking over all of Palestine really was the goal of the zionist movement from the start.

Israel's justice minister just recently declared that Israel must remain Jewish at the expense of human rights, meaning that it is apartheid.
That is really stupid, as Israel's biggest fears are now for equal rights.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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There are only about 370 trucks delivering food and goods into Gaza daily, ....
Israel delivers 370 trucks of aid every day to a state that has been run by a corrupt terrorist group bent on Israel's destruction. That's a good thing because Hamas clearly isn't willing to spend their corrupt billions to feed their people.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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My beef isn't that he stopped actions, more that he's just corrupt and inept. ....
Yet you openly support Hamas who is almost as corrupt and has shown their ineptness in the way that they have put luxury and terrorism ahead of the welfare of their people.

Compare the lives of Palestinians in PA run West Bank to Hamas run Gaza over the past decade. It is easy to see which government is inept.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Israel delivers 370 trucks of aid every day to a state that has been run by a corrupt terrorist group bent on Israel's destruction. That's a good thing because Hamas clearly isn't willing to spend their corrupt billions to feed their people.
Gaza is occupied by Israel, according to the Geneva Conventions its Israel's duty to care for the wellbeing of those they occupy.
Regardless of your personal hatred of Palestinians.

Your racism is not an excuse for war crimes.

UN's Mideast envoy says Israel responsible for 'catastrophic' situation in Gaza Strip
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inte...nvoy-says-israel-responsible-for-catastrophic
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Gaza is occupied by Israel, ...
Factually incorrect. There is not a single Israeli in Gaza and Gaza has had it's own government for more than a decade. Israel and Egypt control their borders. That's it.

At the same time, Hamas leadership is worth billions that they made though stealing money from their people, excessive tax on imports, and wasting money and building supplies on terrorism.

But as usual, in your desperation to avoid criticizing Hamas, you throw out accusations of racism.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Factually incorrect. There is not a single Israeli in Gaza and Gaza has had it's own government for more than a decade.
Uh, do you live on this planet or read the news ever?
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...ed-against-IDF-troops-near-Gaza-border-542862

You don't think the fact that Israel has a wall around Gaza with snipers who shoot farmers and kids who get too close to it, and with tanks driving around shooting, is really evidence that Israel is militarily occupying Gaza?

You don't think that the UN knows the legal situation?

UN's Mideast envoy says Israel responsible for 'catastrophic' situation in Gaza Strip
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inte...nvoy-says-israel-responsible-for-catastrophic
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
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...
You don't think the fact that Israel has a wall around Gaza with snipers who shoot farmers and kids who get too close to it, and with tanks driving around shooting, is really evidence that Israel is militarily occupying Gaza?

...
Just as much as the US is occupying Canada. Actually there are American enforcement officials working in Canada so I take that back.

Why are you afraid to criticize the Hamas millionaires who have created the situation? Even the PA has created a far better standard of life for their people.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Just as much as the US is occupying Canada. .
That's hilarious as well, you're on a roll today.

Now you think the US is occupying Canada but that Israel isn't occupying Gaza?
Totally hilarious.

Here's the official statement by the body whose opinions matter much more then yours.

UN's Mideast envoy says Israel responsible for 'catastrophic' situation in Gaza Strip
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inte...nvoy-says-israel-responsible-for-catastrophic
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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You do realize the quote you posted has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether Israel is occupying Gaza.

Comparing Gaza to the West Bank makes it clear that the difference in standard of living is a result of the governance (or lack thereof). The only thing that Hamas governance has accomplished in Gaza is to make Abbas look good. Even ignoring the fact Hamas uses Gaza to pad their personal net worths, their choice to turn Gaza into a terror base is the reason why Israel needs to enforce border restrictions.
 
Ashley Madison
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