How Lame is Joe Biden?

bver_hunter · May 25, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Supporting Joe Biden over Bernie Sanders in the Primary as you did means you own his history and platform.

That's Joe Biden's history and platform.

Really?? Once again although Biden is to the right end of the Democratic Party, his platform clearly states that he is more moderate candidate and Left of Trump and The Republicans.

We have seen Trump continue and even increase the arms sales to countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE, who are using them to even forward them to Al Qaeda led forces in Yemen!!

In addition Trump gives a crap about Americans and their affordable Healthcare as well as Medicare coverage, and even wants to repeal what Obama / Biden set out to implement. Yet you support Trump over Biden. You still cannot explain why Sanders would prefer Biden to Trump if what you stated has even an iota of truth in it!!

kkelso · May 25, 2020

Butler1000 said:
And when a right is dependent on your socio economic class it isn't a right.

I would agree with you that "rights", by their very nature, are independent of socio-economic class. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be rights would they?

As to healthcare specifically, do I think you should get better care if you can pay more for it? Yes, of course.

KK

Butler1000 · May 25, 2020

kkelso said:
I would agree with you that "rights", by their very nature, are independent of socio-economic class. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be rights would they?

As to healthcare specifically, do I think you should get better care if you can pay more for it? Yes, of course.

KK

I don't. That's the difference. Because it isn't in my opinion a commodity. Getting dick isn't an option.

And it in effect places money above human lives.

Butler1000 · May 25, 2020

bver_hunter said:
Really?? Once again although Biden is to the right end of the Democratic Party, his platform clearly states that he is more moderate candidate and Left of Trump and The Republicans.

We have seen Trump continue and even increase the arms sales to countries like Saudi Arabia and UAE, who are using them to even forward them to Al Qaeda led forces in Yemen!!

In addition Trump gives a crap about Americans and their affordable Healthcare as well as Medicare coverage, and even wants to repeal what Obama / Biden set out to implement. Yet you support Trump over Biden. You still cannot explain why Sanders would prefer Biden to Trump if what you stated has even an iota of truth in it!!

Well at least you admit he is in the right.

Which means I'm right. About his platform.

And the USA has been approving arms sales for decades to SA. So did Trudeau. Will you denounce Obama and Trudeau for it. Let me hear you say it. Until then your argument is moot.

bver_hunter · May 25, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Well at least you admit he is in the right.

Which means I'm right. About his platform.

And the USA has been approving arms sales for decades to SA. So did Trudeau. Will you denounce Obama and Trudeau for it. Let me hear you say it. Until then your argument is moot.

Biden is still a Democrat and to the left of the Republican Party. I know that it is a desperate attempt to try and deflect rather than answer a simple question as to why would Sanders throw his support behind Biden and NOT TRUMP. Stop trying to twist and turn my words. You are not right about anything regarding Trump. He has racked up the arms sales that are finding their way to Al Qaeda supported militants. Obama and Trudeau have no such record of it. They would not have thrown the biggest allies in the Middle East called The Kurds under the bus like Trump did!! Your argument was moot when you still did not explain the most vital point, and that is regarding Sanders support for Biden and NOT TRUMP!!

Butler1000 · May 25, 2020

bver_hunter said:
Biden is still a Democrat and to the left of the Republican Party. I know that it is a desperate attempt to try and deflect rather than answer a simple question as to why would Sanders throw his support behind Biden and NOT TRUMP. Stop trying to twist and turn my words. You are not right about anything regarding Trump. He has racked up the arms sales that are finding their way to Al Qaeda supported militants. Obama and Trudeau have no such record of it. They would not have thrown the biggest allies in the Middle East called The Kurds under the bus like Trump did!! Your argument was moot when you still did not explain the most vital point, and that is regarding Sanders support for Biden and NOT TRUMP!!

Are they that far to the left?

Donors and votes in Congress may say otherwise.

Sanders is Sanders and can make his own choice. But he doesn't own my support and it's non transferable. Or any other voter for that matter. Nor does any other candidate own any other vote.

Right?

So I, nor any other voter don't have to ethically justify a vote or support based on who Sanders chooses to support. He doesn't own it.

Trudeau approved the arms sales to SA after he was elected. And no it wasn't a done deal. He had the authority to cancel it without penalty when he approved it.

The order was for anti personnel vehicles. Now why would a despot nation need them? Hmmmmm....

But at least you finally admitted Biden is right wing. Now if only you can make that leap to some people having a problem voting for him because of that you may actually understand.

bver_hunter · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Are they that far to the left?

Donors and votes in Congress may say otherwise.

Sanders is Sanders and can make his own choice. But he doesn't own my support and it's non transferable. Or any other voter for that matter. Nor does any other candidate own any other vote.

Right?

So I, nor any other voter don't have to ethically justify a vote or support based on who Sanders chooses to support. He doesn't own it.

Trudeau approved the arms sales to SA after he was elected. And no it wasn't a done deal. He had the authority to cancel it without penalty when he approved it.

The order was for anti personnel vehicles. Now why would a despot nation need them? Hmmmmm....

But at least you finally admitted Biden is right wing. Now if only you can make that leap to some people having a problem voting for him because of that you may actually understand.

You seem to be making a lot of excuses for Trump and his weapons sales to SA and UAE. The UAE weapons specifically are being funnelled to the Al Qaeda militants in Yemen. That is very dangerous. Plus the Kurds were thrown under the bus. This would definitely not have occurred under Biden / Obama regime.

But can you not remember that it was Harper who negotiated the deal of the weapons to SA?? There was a huge investment in manufacturing these vehicles. So scrapping them would have resulted in an outcry from the right wingers for sure. Can you not blame Harper for initiating this deal in the first place? How about pining the blame on another Republican like Bush for the worst war in the Middle East?

Butler, you seem to disagree with Sanders for most things, and are consistently siding with Trump. Are you telling me now that presently Trump is the best option for another term in office?? He really screwed up with his handling of this Pandemic. Nothing but confusion in all the USA states as to how to proceed with reopening of the economy. But Trump should be held accountable for the 100,000 - 150,000 deaths under his watch. Worst than any wars etc in the past!!

Butler1000 · May 26, 2020

bver_hunter said:
You seem to be making a lot of excuses for Trump and his weapons sales to SA and UAE. The UAE weapons specifically are being funnelled to the Al Qaeda militants in Yemen. That is very dangerous. Plus the Kurds were thrown under the bus. This would definitely not have occurred under Biden / Obama regime.

But can you not remember that it was Harper who negotiated the deal of the weapons to SA?? There was a huge investment in manufacturing these vehicles. So scrapping them would have resulted in an outcry from the right wingers for sure. Can you not blame Harper for initiating this deal in the first place? How about pining the blame on another Republican like Bush for the worst war in the Middle East?

Butler, you seem to disagree with Sanders for most things, and are consistently siding with Trump. Are you telling me now that presently Trump is the best option for another term in office?? He really screwed up with his handling of this Pandemic. Nothing but confusion in all the USA states as to how to proceed with reopening of the economy. But Trump should be held accountable for the 100,000 - 150,000 deaths under his watch. Worst than any wars etc in the past!!

Yes. I also blame Harper for the negotiations. Now you blame Trudeau for not stopping it or you are a hypocrite.

Sanders is choosing his own path. So no I don't agree with his decision to back Biden.

I agree with his history and policy. That he is choosing to compromise is on him.

You are a lemming.

Valcazar · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Supporting Joe Biden over Bernie Sanders in the Primary as you did means you own his history and platform.

That's Joe Biden's history and platform.

Does this rule only apply to Joe Biden? Or to this primary?
Are you just making up rules you won't apply to yourself again or is this seriously how you view politics?

Frankfooter · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Supporting Joe Biden over Bernie Sanders in the Primary as you did means you own his history and platform.

That's Joe Biden's history and platform.

Then you own Trump's legacy, his fraud history, his pussy grabbing, his nepotism, his warmongering and wanna be nukes, his destruction of the EPA and his attacks on health care.
You own it.

bver_hunter · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Yes. I also blame Harper for the negotiations. Now you blame Trudeau for not stopping it or you are a hypocrite.

Sanders is choosing his own path. So no I don't agree with his decision to back Biden.

I agree with his history and policy. That he is choosing to compromise is on him.

You are a lemming.

So you are saying that scrapping the billions of dollars worth of vehicles is good for the economy?? Especially, as the company that manufactured it would have had to lay off numerous workers as well as the Taxpayers would have then been on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of compensation!! I did not like the deal to start with, but the investment was made and it definitely is not easy to renege on it!!

Who would you want Sanders to back, as there are just two realistic choices?? If you disagree with Biden, then of course you want him to endorse Trump. Not in a million years would Sanders ever back someone like Trump who is a disaster!!

Maybe, you are obsessed with the real lemmings!!

Butler1000 · May 26, 2020

Valcazar said:
Does this rule only apply to Joe Biden? Or to this primary?
Are you just making up rules you won't apply to yourself again or is this seriously how you view politics?

If you support and vote for a candidate then you, as a person are indirectly responsible for the actions they do as a politician. Especially if they either do as they say they promised but just as much if their history says they will do one thing but they claim they will do another. And the claim is a lie.

Just as Every Trump voter is aware of who he is and is responsible for their vote so to us every Biden Supporter.

And that includes if Biden loses. Because it means they chose a candidate so flawed they couldn't beat the likes of Trump.

I take my vote seriously. And indeed have had to make choices in the past I've chosen to live with.

And also Made choices because I knew I couldn't live with the result otherwise.

And everyone has a different mark on this, a different opinion.

Butler1000 · May 26, 2020

bver_hunter said:
So you are saying that scrapping the billions of dollars worth of vehicles is good for the economy?? Especially, as the company that manufactured it would have had to lay off numerous workers as well as the Taxpayers would have then been on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of compensation!! I did not like the deal to start with, but the investment was made and it definitely is not easy to renege on it!!

Who would you want Sanders to back, as there are just two realistic choices?? If you disagree with Biden, then of course you want him to endorse Trump. Not in a million years would Sanders ever back someone like Trump who is a disaster!!

Maybe, you are obsessed with the real lemmings!!

I wish Sanders, with his team, fundraising and machine, could have run third party. Covid-19, the media, made that impossible. But I think he would have made enough of a run to change USA politics forever.

basketcase · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Supporting Joe Biden over Bernie Sanders in the Primary as you did means you own his history and platform.

That's Joe Biden's history and platform.

Do you not realize that Sanders is out of the race? It is now a choice between Biden and the Democrats with a touch of progressive polices (talk is Warren could be the VP pick) or Trump and the Republicans who are set on diminishing the vestiges of social support the US has.

basketcase · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
Are they that far to the left? ....

If you like the left, wouldn't a little be better than none?

basketcase · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
If you support and vote for a candidate then you, as a person are indirectly responsible for the actions they do as a politician. ....

And if you go out of your way to smear and attack a candidate, you are indirectly responsible for the actions of the person who beats them.

Frankfooter · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
I wish Sanders, with his team, fundraising and machine, could have run third party.

Just to split the dem vote and ensure that Trump is elected and public health care totally destroyed?

Frankfooter · May 26, 2020

Butler1000 said:
If you support and vote for a candidate then you, as a person are indirectly responsible for the actions they do as a politician. .

You are directly responsible for Trump, his warmongering, tax breaks for the super rich, destruction of health care and environmental standards.

Butler1000 · May 26, 2020

basketcase said:
And if you go out of your way to smear and attack a candidate, you are indirectly responsible for the actions of the person who beats them.

These aren't smears. They are facts. Is Joe Biden above critisism for his actions?

Butler1000 · May 26, 2020

basketcase said:
If you like the left, wouldn't a little be better than none?

Sometimes no. Not when They look at the crumbs and tell you that's all you get.

How Lame is Joe Biden?

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Just a bundle of fucking sunshine

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