REOPENING AT STAGE 2, with recommendations for Coordinated Toronto Reopening Strategy

doggystyle99 · May 24, 2020

bebe said:
What makes you or anyone think the number of cases won’t increase when stage 2 gets the green light? How are the conditions going to be any better or different versus yesterday if stage 2 starts one week from now or one month from now?

Apart from the kids not using face coverings to prevent the covid tan lines that will be the only real difference I can see if stage 2 started tomorrow, one week from now or one month from now. It’s not like there will be a vaccine

Let me guess your answer: testing and tracing apps need to be in place first.

Bebe you’re one irrational and ignorant human being along with being unempathetic.
First off we are not fully in phase 1 yet you’re talking about phase 2
Secondly the facts and data regarding the Coronavirus already tells us why in a 14 day timeline we should see an increase in the number of cases due to the actions of some Covidiots yesterday. This data has been repeated billions of times yet you still haven’t understood it.

doggystyle99 · May 24, 2020

You clearly are not aware of why a 14 day cycle is important, if you were you’d understand why there will be a rise in cases in 14 days.
For example the PDC this year has roughly 90 Coronavirus transmissions traced back to the conference And they see about 15,000 attendees every year.

As for your hypothetical assertion that numbers will magically increase without a cause at the beginning of phase 2 again that’s just made up nonsense to support your “open businesses now” narrative.
With proper measures health and tracing and a significant 14 day cycle decline in the number of daily cases those future numbers can be kept to as low as possible. These are facts that have been explained to you numerous times yet you still do not understand the importance of them.

whitewaterguy · May 24, 2020

SexB said:
All that isn't going to matter because those idiots in Trinity Bellwoods yesterday are going to send us back to square one.

They really need to lock down Toronto. Don’t let them out Don’t let anyone in. No one in the rest of the province wants these dumb fucks heading our way to contaminate our relatively low numbers.

WULA · May 24, 2020

Dave in Phoenix said:
I agree with the good wisdom of Khufu other than how you view the rate of new infections. As I believe in the US, this includes positive tests, which is not the relevant factor when the pure number of tests is skyrocketing, which distorts the "curve" of risks.

Obviously, the more you test, the more cases you find. However, it has been recently pointed out that you may have a positive virus test, but it is no longer active - not spreading in the body - so can do no more harm nor transmit at this stage.

Dave,

Your belief is incorrect. Testing in Ontario is going DOWN, not up.

They cannot seem to get it to happen, despite the Premier's will.

And now all the hipsters are jamming the parks on sunny days.

All we can do now, is to hope for cool wet weather !

bebe · May 24, 2020

doggystyle99 said:
You clearly are not aware of why a 14 day cycle is important, if you were you’d understand why there will be a rise in cases in 14 days.
For example the PDC this year has roughly 90 Coronavirus transmissions traced back to the conference And they see about 15,000 attendees every year.

As for your hypothetical assertion that numbers will magically increase without a cause at the beginning of phase 2 again that’s just made up nonsense to support your “open businesses now” narrative.
With proper measures health and tracing and a significant 14 day cycle decline in the number of daily cases those future numbers can be kept to as low as possible. These are facts that have been explained to you numerous times yet you still do not understand the importance of them.

Yes yes yes your standard meaningless dribble response

How does a 14 day decline of new cases make it any safer to reopen when everything has been locked down for months? Once people get out in large numbers please explain why less people will be infected all of a sudden? Implementing face coverings could have started months ago. Some how you think “tomorrow” which might happen a month from now will be significantly safer than opening “today”. Without a vaccine the risk today will be the same as tomorrow. In fact the risk will be even higher when the bigger second wave hits in September when the kids go back to class

How is tracing going to be helpful when in all likelihood once you get infected you will have crossed paths with hundreds of people? Oh that’s right you are ok if the government tracks every move you make via your cell phone with tracing apps. Let’s all live in a police state, sounds like a real picnic

doggystyle99 · May 24, 2020

Bebe you simply lack the knowledge of the facts since you still haven’t understood why a 14 day decline in the number of cases would make it safer. Can’t count the number of times I’ve explained this very simple fact to you and so many others have done so.
But here it is again the less contagion there is out there the less chance of it spreading And super spreading, that combined with health and tracing measures as well as a 14 day cycle decline in the number of cases would keep new cases to as low as possible. Here is to hoping you understand this but highly unlikely.

glamphotographer · May 24, 2020

Soon in Ontario everyone will be able to get tested. Would this help with agencies with opening up? How would it change their guidelines?

bebe · May 24, 2020

doggystyle99 said:
Bebe you simply lack the knowledge of the facts since you still haven’t understood why a 14 day decline in the number of cases would make it safer. Can’t count the number of times I’ve explained this very simple fact to you and so many others have done so.
But here it is again the less contagion there is out there the less chance of it spreading And super spreading, that combined with health and tracing measures as well as a 14 day cycle decline in the number of cases would keep new cases to as low as possible. Here is to hoping you understand this but highly unlikely.

Oh I see, you have superior knowledge of the virus that no one else seems to have. The 14 day decline is meaningless, it is nothing more than a made up BS number.

Georgia for example reopened long before they had a 14 day decline. Since reopening they have not seen a huge surge in cases.

Most countries that have reopened did not have a defined 14 day decline of cases. They installed plastic barriers, bought hand sanitizer and recommended people wear face coverings.

The problem with the 14 day decline is the setting off point, the population size, the capacity of the local hospitals where the virus is most active how many people are being tested etc.

bebe · May 24, 2020

glamphotographer said:
Soon in Ontario everyone will be able to get tested. Would this help with agencies with opening up? How would it change their guidelines?

Trump said all Americans who want a test can get a test, how is that going in the States? Not well since they do not have enough test kits.

How is Ontario going to round up enough test kits for more than 14 million people?

Fords words are an empty promise.

Imagine trying to take 15,000 samples (blood) every day. It will take Ontario 2.5 years to test everyone just once.

G.D. Gentleman · May 24, 2020

doggystyle99 said:
Bebe you simply lack the knowledge of the facts since you still haven’t understood why a 14 day decline in the number of cases would make it safer. Can’t count the number of times I’ve explained this very simple fact to you and so many others have done so.
But here it is again the less contagion there is out there the less chance of it spreading And super spreading, that combined with health and tracing measures as well as a 14 day cycle decline in the number of cases would keep new cases to as low as possible. Here is to hoping you understand this but highly unlikely.

DS99:

So is it:

The government started opening up activities too soon?

Do you and others like you think the numbers will continue to decline when any type of opening up activities occur? Which defies all logic?

What should the Ontario government be doing this week, if you were in the driver seat?

surferboy · May 24, 2020

SexB said:
All that isn't going to matter because those idiots in Trinity Bellwoods yesterday are going to send us back to square one.

Could we ship all the idiots to a small island & let them party to their hearts content & not let them off no matter how sick they get?

Lets face reality the "magical 14 day decline" would be great but it's not going to happen in the near future & the gov can only print so much money. So lets cautiously get things moving before we turn 6000 deaths into another great depression & kill 10 or 15000 healthy people & leave tens of thousands broke & homeless. A successful retired business owner I golfed with this weekend who is in his mid 70's can't believe the "rules & crap this government is putting business owners through". I'm in manufacturing nothing too crazy for us, but friends with other businesses the rules have gotten a little ridiculous

Smallcock · May 25, 2020

SexB said:
All that isn't going to matter because those idiots in Trinity Bellwoods yesterday are going to send us back to square one.

You will never get out of square one if 100% compliance is required. So, guess what that means...

tribunus · May 25, 2020

SexB said:
All that isn't going to matter because those idiots in Trinity Bellwoods yesterday are going to send us back to square one.

Yeap, Stage Two and agencies/spas opening up anytime soon is pure fantasy at this point.

If you shaved your balls in anticipation, then it was done in vain. See ya in 2021!

Lukecage55 · May 25, 2020

Clearly Covid is a serious virus. And there are lots of risks involved. But it is up to each individual to assess and determine the risk they are willing to take. However, neither the excessive fear mongering or casual dismissal of the virus risk is helpful. Interesting thing to note, is how Covid affects people with pre-existing conditions and seniors. Median age of Covid death in Canada is 84. Yes, thats not a typo. This is publicly available information.

Lots of people get infected, but if you’re young(-ish) with no pre-existing conditions, your risk is not the same as a 70 year old John with prior heart problems (as an example). So do your own research and assess your risk. Virtue signalling by fear mongering is not productive. The idea that the whole world should stay closed in perpetuity, for a disease that kills mostly 80 year olds, is absurd. People at high risk can remain in lockdown. Younger/healthier people need to carry on with their lives at some point.

Lukecage55 · May 25, 2020

[/QUOTE] Your belief is incorrect. Testing in Ontario is going DOWN, not up.

They cannot seem to get it to happen, despite the Premier's will.

And now all the hipsters are jamming the parks on sunny days.

All we can do now, is to hope for cool wet weather ![/QUOTE]

Testing is down mainly because there are not as many people with symptoms, presenting themselves to hospitals and requesting tests. The only thing the government can control is “testing capacity”. That is, providing testing kits. Unless people physically go to a hospital to ask for a test OR the government starts going door to door to force people to test, then actual “test performed” would remain low. There seems to be a strong misunderstanding between “testing capacity” and “test performed”, even in the media.

Also - less people requesting tests, could mean there are less people experiencing symptoms. Which is a good thing.

whitewaterguy · May 25, 2020

Allegra’s roll out plan reminds me of documents manufactured by boring low level civil servant drones whose only assignments involve writing policies and procedures all day , every day . Unfortunately , based on a false premise , misinformation , and absence of science . Methodically written , but not at all well thought out,... High risk venture in foolishness. But each to their own

doggystyle99 · May 25, 2020

bebe said:
Oh I see, you have superior knowledge of the virus that no one else seems to have. The 14 day decline is meaningless, it is nothing more than a made up BS number.

Georgia for example reopened long before they had a 14 day decline. Since reopening they have not seen a huge surge in cases.

Most countries that have reopened did not have a defined 14 day decline of cases. They installed plastic barriers, bought hand sanitizer and recommended people wear face coverings.

The problem with the 14 day decline is the setting off point, the population size, the capacity of the local hospitals where the virus is most active how many people are being tested etc.

I do not have superior knowledge to those who have the smallest amount of understanding of the Coronavirus and the facts and data regarding it, I listen to what the health officials tell me as they know best, but to people like yourself who keep dismissing the data and the facts we know regarding the Coronavirus yes it is superior knowledge which you'll never be able to grasp fully because you are letting your "Open businesses now" mentality dictate what the the data and the facts mean which makes you irrational, or your simply lack the knowledge on the subject, which judging by your numerous posts I can see it's a combination of both.

But in your opinion and the opinion of the "Open businesses now" crowd which is contrary to what all the health officials provincial & federal have been telling us in Canada, a 14 day decline in the number of new daily cases is irrelevant, tracing measures are not useful and too intrusive, health measures don't make a difference, numbers of deaths reported are grossly overstated by the health officials and the media, and the media is over exaggerating the threat of the virus.

Again all these facts that you and the "Open businesses now" crowd view as useless or irrelevant to the containment of the Coronavirus are extremely important and specially a 14 day cycle decline in the number of new daily cases since it represents how much contagion is active in the community. You and the crowd either do not have the knowledge, understand the importance of it or you and the "crowd are purposely avoiding these facts and data to spin your narrative of "Open businesses now".

tribunus · May 25, 2020

stedon said:
I think a couple of agencies started talking about opening at Phase 2 because once Phase 1 started they assumed it was just a couple of weeks away and waiting an extra bit of time for Phase 2 (along with putting in place a number of largely meaningless safety measures - like showering before you could even give a girl a hello hug - as if the shower was going to disinfect your lungs) sounded really responsible. Once it becomes clear that Phase 2 isn't going to start soon (from a simple political optics perspective Ford can't go ahead right now after the Trinity Bellwoods fiasco and with new cases well over 400 per day and going up and not down) I'll be interested to see if all the agencies stick with Phase 2 or if they decide to just go ahead. I'd assume that the agencies that rent condos must be feeling the shutdown. Those that use hotel rooms might be in a better position to continue to wait.

I don't have any strong feeling on whether the agencies should re-open or not. I just figure they will eventually because financially they simply have to or go out of business and when they do it won't really be "safe" - because to a large extent it can't be completely "safe" and in this industry with the level of intimate contact involved all the talk from the agencies about safety being their top priority is meaningless drivel meant to make people feel safer or at least better but not to actually make it "safe." Agencies, girls and clients will have to decide the level of risk they'll be willing to accept. If the re-opening happens any time soon I'll personally be sitting out for a while.

Interestingly I have a couple of friends who are both nurses in the local hospital system and they've both told me that regardless of the numbers that are being reported they're alarmed by the numbers of young people they're seeing who are starting to be admitted to ICUs and who are ending up on ventilators. They may not be dying but they are getting very sick with this. And I believe my friends over those who say "young people are at no risk."

Well said. One of the most rational things I've read around here in weeks.

doggystyle99 · May 25, 2020

It's truly remarkable that since January this year health officials from around the world have explained millions if not billions of time the importance of 14 days in the fight against the Coronavirus yet we have some "open businesses now" crowd who keep telling us a 14 day decline in the number of cases is irrelevant just because it doesn't fit in with the narrative they are trying to spin.

yomero5 · May 25, 2020

doggystyle99 said:
It's truly remarkable that since January this year health officials from around the world have explained millions if not billions of time the importance of 14 days in the fight against the Coronavirus yet we have some "open businesses now" crowd who keep telling us a 14 day decline in the number of cases is irrelevant just because it doesn't fit in with the narrative they are trying to spin.

You are spinning a broken record. Give it a rest, FFS.

REOPENING AT STAGE 2, with recommendations for Coordinated Toronto Reopening Strategy

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