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Gangster geopolitics and Israel's annexation plans

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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You're just making shit up....
Wow, you love pulling up quotes edited so wildly that the meaning is changed.

But you can settle this right now.

Nov. 11, 2019. IDF team gets discovered installing surveillance equipment in Gaza and gets into a gun battle. Hamas responded by firing over 500 rockets at Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...stalled-spying-equipment-near-secret-gaza-hq/
Was it reasonable for Hamas to fire these rockets in response? Yes or no?

Dec 9, 2018. Hamas member shoots pregnant woman, killing her baby while she waited outside a settlement at a bus stop.
https://www.cjnews.com/news/israel/israeli-troops-kill-palestinian-suspect-in-ofra-shooting-attack
Was this Jewish woman (or any of the other people at the bus stop) a valid target because she was in the West Bank? Yes or no?

April 18, 2016. Hamas bombs a public transit bus in Jerusalem.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/hamas-claims-responsibility-for-jerusalem-bus-bombing-1.5437834
Was this bomb on public transit in any way a military target? Yes or no?

But as usual, you will run away, covering your ears and screaming "but Israeli is worse".
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Wow, you love pulling up quotes edited so wildly that the meaning is changed.

But you can settle this right now.

Nov. 11, 2019. IDF team gets discovered installing surveillance equipment in Gaza and gets into a gun battle.
First, do you acknowledge that Israel shot and killed Palestinians on a covert spy mission into Gaza.
Is it reasonable for Israel to shoot Palestinians?
Does Israel have a right to invade Gaza?
Do Palestinians have a right to self defence as you claim Israelis have?

Then, once you've answered those you need to tell me where Hamas was aiming rockets.
If you have proof they were civilian targets, that's a war crime.
If they say it was military targets, that's the same kind of self defence you say Israel has.

Dec 9, 2018. Hamas member shoots pregnant woman, killing her baby while she waited outside a settlement at a bus stop.
https://www.cjnews.com/news/israel/israeli-troops-kill-palestinian-suspect-in-ofra-shooting-attack
Was this Jewish woman (or any of the other people at the bus stop) a valid target because she was in the West Bank? Yes or no?
No.
Are Palestinian protesters valid targets? Yes or no?



April 18, 2016. Hamas bombs a public transit bus in Jerusalem.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/hamas-claims-responsibility-for-jerusalem-bus-bombing-1.5437834
Was this bomb on public transit in any way a military target? Yes or no?
No.
Are Palestinian schools, hospitals, ambulances and medics valid targets? Yes or no?
 

Liminal

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2003
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Wow, you love pulling up quotes edited so wildly that the meaning is changed.

But you can settle this right now.

Nov. 11, 2019. IDF team gets discovered installing surveillance equipment in Gaza and gets into a gun battle. Hamas responded by firing over 500 rockets at Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...stalled-spying-equipment-near-secret-gaza-hq/
Was it reasonable for Hamas to fire these rockets in response? Yes or no?

Dec 9, 2018. Hamas member shoots pregnant woman, killing her baby while she waited outside a settlement at a bus stop.
https://www.cjnews.com/news/israel/israeli-troops-kill-palestinian-suspect-in-ofra-shooting-attack
Was this Jewish woman (or any of the other people at the bus stop) a valid target because she was in the West Bank? Yes or no?

April 18, 2016. Hamas bombs a public transit bus in Jerusalem.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/hamas-claims-responsibility-for-jerusalem-bus-bombing-1.5437834
Was this bomb on public transit in any way a military target? Yes or no?

But as usual, you will run away, covering your ears and screaming "but Israeli is worse".
As usual, you’ve screwed up.

Your first example...well almost complete fiction. Israel was caught undertaking an illegal military operation within Palestinian territory. Then they launched missile attacks that killed Palestinians to facilitate the escape of the illegal intruders. Only then did Palestinians rightfully respond with missiles.

Your second example is jaw dropping. You continually justify Israel shooting Palestinians trying to illegally enter a Israel. Why shouldn’t Palestinians do the same to Israelis who have illegally entered?

The third? I can’t muster much sympathy since that many Palestinians are wounded and beaten by Israel on a daily basis. Your example is simply an attempt to get others to practice your racism and give more value to the minimal suffering of the occupiers over the brutal and greater suffering of those who are occupied.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
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First, do you acknowledge that Israel shot and killed Palestinians on a covert spy mission into Gaza.
Is it reasonable for Israel to shoot Palestinians?
Does Israel have a right to invade Gaza?
Do Palestinians have a right to self defence as you claim Israelis have?

Then, once you've answered those you need to tell me where Hamas was aiming rockets.
If you have proof they were civilian targets, that's a war crime.
If they say it was military targets, that's the same kind of self defence you say Israel has.
What a surprise. You continue to continue to justigy Hamas firing hundreds of what even you were forced to admit were war crime rockets

Yes, The IDF got into a gunfight with Hamas military and people were killed on both sides. On duty Israeli military are valid targets; why wouldn't on duty Hamas forces not be?

Your other answers are polar opposite of your previous statements. If I really expected that you had any kind of moral sense I'd bookmark them for the next time you argue against yourself.

My questions were referencing very specific incidents. Yours don't so there is no way to give a straight yes or no.

Peaceful protesters aren't valid targets, violent protesters are if the pose a threat. Hamas fighters using the protests as cover are completely valid military targets. Hospitals and schools that are in use aren't valid targets, even when Hamas violates international law and uses them as military bases. That's why in the last Gaza war, Israel didn't hit Gaza's main hospital despite Hamas openly using it as their HQ and rockets being launched from the parking lot.. Ambulances and people dressed as medics aren't valid targets unless they are directly involved in hostilities.

And these questions are specific to targeting, not accidents or missed targets. Those situations require a much closer look to determine that the threat by the legitimate target was enough to risk injury to civilians around them. That is why hamas has used civilians as cover for their operations including launching those war crime rockets from deep inside the civilian population.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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As usual, you’ve screwed up. ...
Instead of making shit up, you should just go back to excusing Hamas lynching people and dragging their bodies through the streets.

Your constant justification for killing Israeli Jews and anyone Hamas doesn't like is disgusting.
 

Liminal

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2003
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Instead of making shit up, you should just go back to excusing Hamas lynching people and dragging their bodies through the streets.

Your constant justification for killing Israeli Jews and anyone Hamas doesn't like is disgusting.
Don’t be such a sore loser.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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What a surprise. You continue to continue to justigy Hamas firing hundreds of what even you were forced to admit were war crime rockets

Yes, The IDF got into a gunfight with Hamas military and people were killed on both sides. On duty Israeli military are valid targets; why wouldn't on duty Hamas forces not be?
So you think Israeli missiles, fired first, after their failed military attack were justified but Palestinian missiles fired in return were wrong?
Holy colonialist, racist thinking batman.
You blame Palestinians for responding to an Israeli attack and say that defending themselves is wrong.
Typical.



Peaceful protesters aren't valid targets, violent protesters are if the pose a threat. Hamas fighters using the protests as cover are completely valid military targets
.
Yet when Amnesty and HRW declared those protesters non violent you still supported shooting them with snipers from behind a fence.
300 people were killed and 14,000 injured and you have yet to say any of those were in the wrong.



Hospitals and schools that are in use aren't valid targets, even when Hamas violates international law and uses them as military bases.
Again, you defended Israel using missiles to attack hospitals, schools and apartment buildings.
As you also defended Israel attacking ambulances and medics.




And these questions are specific to targeting, not accidents or missed targets. Those situations require a much closer look to determine that the threat by the legitimate target was enough to risk injury to civilians around them.
You use this as justification with 100% racist bias.
If the IDF said it was a military target you support them shooting protesters, hospitals, schools, children, women, families, homes and ambulances.
If Hamas says they aimed at military targets you say that they still committed war crimes (see example 1 in this post)
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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So you think Israeli missiles, fired first, after their failed military attack were justified but Palestinian missiles fired in return were wrong?...
You really do to disgusting depths to defend Hamas. There was a gunfight between Israeli and Hamas troops. Israel sent missiles that hit the Hamas troops. No civilians were hit as far as any report I've seen. Hamas responded by firing hundreds of war crime rockets indiscriminately towards Israeli cities.

Yet when Amnesty and HRW
On that topic, Amnesty and HRW condemn Hamas rockets as unjustifiable and war crimes. Funny to see you disagree with them that openly and then use them in the next sentance.

BTW. Plenty of pics and videos of violent protesters. Most weren't but some were. Hamas even admitted that almost all of the dead in the first weekend were Hamas fighters, not civilian protesters.


Again, I gave you specific incidents for you to comment on and even sourced them. There is no way to discuss a whole variety of incidents without specifics to comment on.

If Hamas says they aimed at military targets
Amnesty and HRW say their rockets care war crimes because they can't be aimed accurately but you don't care about those groups unless you can use them to justify your obsession.

And Hamas has specifically targeted public transit, people at bus stops, and kids walking home. Are you going to pretend those are military targets?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You really do to disgusting depths to defend Hamas. There was a gunfight between Israeli and Hamas troops. Israel sent missiles that hit the Hamas troops. No civilians were hit as far as any report I've seen. Hamas responded by firing hundreds of war crime rockets indiscriminately towards Israeli cities.
Why do you refuse to acknowledge that Israelis had invaded Gaza on a covert mission when they were caught and killed Palestinians and had the IDF shoot missiles into Gaza?
Your take is worse than IDF propaganda.

Why do you blame Palestinians for defending themselves and refuse to admit this was all result of Israeli agressions?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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On that topic, Amnesty and HRW condemn Hamas rockets as unjustifiable and war crimes.
I fully support investigations into Hamas and Israel based on all Amnesty and HRW allegations.

Why will you accept their criticisms of Hamas but then say they are full of shit if they accuse Israel of war crimes?
Why do you support all Israeli war crimes, including shooting protesters?

mod edited
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Why do you refuse to acknowledge that Israelis had invaded Gaza on a covert mission when they were caught ...
Yes, IDF in Gaza justifies a Hamas military response and the only Palestinians killed were Hamas troops in that resulting gunfight.

Hamas responded by firing hundreds of rockets.

I fully support investigations into Hamas and Israel based on all Amnesty and HRW allegations.....
Except in this very thread you are arguing that Amnesty and HRW were wrong to condemn Hamas rockets. Hmm.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, IDF in Gaza justifies a Hamas military response and the only Palestinians killed were Hamas troops in that resulting gunfight.
So you are cheering this on as a success?
As yet another military operation where Palestinians were killed?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The losers were the victims of the Hamas lynching and desecration you repeatedly justified.
The losers right now are Palestinians, living under a brutal apartheid regime.
The same ones that shot 300 protesters and injured 14,000 more.

Even Trump isn't that despotic.

At least BLM can protest and not be shot by snipers, unlike Palestinians.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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So you are cheering this on as a success?
As yet another military operation where Palestinians were killed?
As opposed to you cheering on Hamas rocket response as appropriate?

But sure, continue your farce of supporting Amnesty and HRW when they criticize Israel but arguing against them when they condemn hamas.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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As opposed to you cheering on Hamas rocket response as appropriate?
I don't support Hamas or Israel using rockets.
You support using rockets on hospitals, schools, apartments and residences.
I don't.

The losers were the victims of the Hamas lynching and desecration you repeatedly justified.
You declared Israel winners for killing Palestinians and using rockets on them.

You are the only one who has cheered for the use of rockets.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I don't support Hamas or Israel using rockets....
Yet here you are in this thread trying to claim Hamas firing hundreds of unguided rockets is an appropriate response to a gun fight between Israeli and Hamas troops, even after your Amnesty and HRW clearly condemned them.


But keep on making shit up. You are the only one who has cheered rockets.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yet here you are in this thread trying to claim Hamas firing hundreds of unguided rockets is an appropriate response to a gun fight between Israeli and Hamas troops,.
Wait, you already admitted that Israel fired rockets or missiles into Gaza first, in order to kill Palestinians who were defending themselves.
So now you're saying you support Israel firing missiles into Gaza in an aggressive attack but don't think Palestinians deserve the right to self defence?

That's a double whammy.
You think Israel has the right to fire missiles at Gaza whenever they want and to initiate violence.
You don't think Palestinians have the right to respond.

Really, so apartheid.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Wait, you already admitted that Israel fired rockets or missiles into Gaza first, in order to kill Palestinians who were defending themselves....
Are you claiming Israeli strikes on Hamas military who were in a gunfight with Israeli troops justifies Hamas firing hundreds of rockets that your Amnesty and HRW consider war crimes against civilians?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Are you claiming Israeli strikes on Hamas military who were in a gunfight with Israeli troops justifies /QUOTE]

You are claiming that Israel had the right to invade and run a covert mission into Gaza, shoot and kill Palestinians and fire missiles into Gaza.
Yet you also are now claiming that Palestinians do not have the right to self defence, even if they return similar fire from Israel.

Apartheid.

From the ICC.

, Bensouda had already declared late last year that she was,

“satisfied that (i) war crimes have been or are being committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip… (ii) potential cases arising from the situation would be admissible; and (iii) there are no substantial reasons to believe that an investigation would not serve the interests of justice.”
 
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