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The Fight Game

Insidious Von

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Larry Holmes was an unpopular Heavyweight Champion, he was cursed with beating up The Greatest. Then, two fights later, he got rocked by Ernie Shavers, slumping into the corner (face first) with five seconds left in the round. He did his best to recover, but a knockout seemed inevitable. Then he thumbed Shavers in the eye, closing it. He won by decision, never actually hurting Shavers...except with his thumb.

 

Insidious Von

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Ali should have retired after fighting Shavers himself, he had nothing left to prove. Only George Foreman hit as hard as Shavers.

 

shack

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Ali should have retired after fighting Shavers himself, he had nothing left to prove. Only George Foreman hit as hard as Shavers.

Great clip.

Ali was so good offensively and defensively that one area he was a bit underrated was his ability to take a punch. He had a rock jaw.
 

Insidious Von

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George Chuvalo is actually four years older than Ali, he's currently living at West Park Retirement Home. Not sure if his Baumonde Heights home has been sold. Lennox Lewis grew up in Kitchener, he's Canadian.

Ali had one slight deficiency, he was susceptible to body shots, that's how he lost his first fight with Frazier. Chuvalo sort of exposed him.

 

Insidious Von

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Brett Hart was under-appreciated when he was at his peak. In a recent poll, he has the destinction of holding the No. 1 (Shawn Michaels) and No. 2 (Steve Austin) best Wrestlemania Main Events. His career was ended when Goldberg connected on a karate kick. Goldberg made many enemies because of it, Steve Regal was considered a hero for what he did. Regal was as tough as they came.

 

Celticman

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What did Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano have in common? None of them ever beat a great heavyweight who was in his prime at the time.
 

The Oracle

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What did Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano have in common? None of them ever beat a great heavyweight who was in his prime at the time.
Okay so Tyson had his shot against Hollyfield and Lewis but which as great heavyweights did Holmes and Marciano avoid?

You can't diminish them for the fact that they had no great historical equivalents at the time. They beat all the relevant fighters of their eras.
 

Celticman

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Okay so Tyson had his shot against Hollyfield and Lewis but which as great heavyweights did Holmes and Marciano avoid?

You can't diminish them for the fact that they had no great historical equivalents at the time. They beat all the relevant fighters of their eras.
I agree with you about Holmes. That said we will never know if he would have won against one of the greats. I think Marciano avoided Sonny Liston. Notwithstanding Liston's losses to Ali, I think Liston would have destroyed Marciano. Marciano beat Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcot and Archie Moore. All were close to 40 and over the hill. I think he would have lost to three of them when they were in their prime. The only good heavyweight that he fought was Roland LaStarza and both fights gave him a lot of trouble. In fact many thought he lost the first fight. It was well known that his career was managed by powerful influences.
 
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Insidious Von

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I agree with you about Holmes. That said we will never know if he would have won against one of the greats. I think Marciano avoided Sonny Liston. Notwithstanding Liston's losses to Ali, I think Liston would have destroyed Marciano. Marciano beat Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcot and Archie Moore. All were close to 40 and over the hill. I think he would have lost to three of them when they were in their prime. The only good heavyweight that he fought was Roland LaStarza and both fights gave him a lot of trouble. In fact many thought he lost the first fight. It was well known that his career was managed by powerful influences.
Ezzard Charles was 31 when he lost the Heavyweight Title to Marciano. They fought twice and Marciano said they were wars, the toughest fights he's ever had. Marciano was a ruthless body puncher, in his prime he may have been able to beat Ali. Liston was a sitting duck for Ali, for each punch Liston threw, Ali hit him three times. George Chuvalo copied Marciano's boxing strategy.

Ali was a freak, he turned Liston into a tomato can.

 

The Oracle

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I agree with you about Holmes. That said we will never know if he would have won against one of the greats. I think Marciano avoided Sonny Liston. Notwithstanding Liston's losses to Ali, I think Liston would have destroyed Marciano. Marciano beat Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcot and Archie Moore. All were close to 40 and over the hill. I think he would have lost to three of them when they were in their prime. The only good heavyweight that he fought was Roland LaStarza and both fights gave him a lot of trouble. In fact many thought he lost the first fight. It was well known that his career was managed by powerful influences.
Rocky was 5'11 on a good day and came in at 185 lb's. So yeah a prime Liston is way bigger than him. If Rocky was fighting today he probably cuts weight and fights at super middleweight 168 Lb's. Did he duck Liston? Liston was 19-1 when Rocky retired and basically crushing cans. So I'm not sure his marquee value was very established yet. So the risk vs reward element had to be factored in.

You intimated that the mob influenced his career. I read a story once where they told him he was going to take a dive and he said no way. He told them they could only kill him once.
 

Insidious Von

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Its been said that Ali was afraid of Liston, NO! Ali had had good reason to fear him, Liston had crushing power. Had Ali gone into the fight cocky, he would have made a mistake and gotten knocked out.

 

Insidious Von

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The Ben Johnson farce tainted what other Canadians did at the Seoul Olympics.

Riddick Bowe was considered the heavy favorite going into the Gold Medal match against Lennox Lewis...they never fought each other again.

 

The Oracle

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The Ben Johnson farce tainted what other Canadians did at the Seoul Olympics.

Riddick Bowe was considered the heavy favorite going into the Gold Medal match against Lennox Lewis...they never fought each other again.

Several months before the 1988 Olympics, however, Bowe endured some traumatic turns in his personal life: his brother Henry was diagnosed with AIDS, and his sister Brenda died from injuries sustained in a mugging. Some critics have suggested that these events adversely affected his performance in Seoul. The boxer told the Los Angeles Times that his Olympic experience has been a burden to bear ever since the summer of 1988. “The talk that I don’t have any heart, I have to take that,” he said. “Unfortunately, the Lewis fight did take place and it’ll follow me around even if I become champion, and long after that.”

https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/bowe-riddick-1967
 

Insidious Von

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Did not know that about Bowe, it would have had greater relevance had he not ducked Lewis as a professional.

Is the WWE suffering from Batwoman Syndrome? Rhonda Rousey has put in the work but fans are not warming to her. She's still being fast-tracked for main events which is not sitting well with the rest of the women. If she doesn't get what she wants, she can always go back to MMA.

 

Smallcock

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Just one kick to the leg like that hurts. Imagine going round after round on the receiving end. Complete torture.
 

Insidious Von

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Howard Cosell is a reminder of how good live broadcasting was back in the day.

I felt sorry for Joe Frazier, he was the right fighter at the wrong time. You can hear Angelo Dundee in the background screaming to stop the fight.

He was right, Joe didn't deserve to to the knockout dance, twice. He looked like Bugs Bunny doing an exeunt on the last one.

 
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