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In The Economic Crisis Unfolding - What's Your Number?

FlorenceYi

Celebrating life one date at a time
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Sep 27, 2012
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Ah.. I don't think there will be many robust answers to this thread, but I think this is a good food for thought thread. As you know, I'm a big FIRE prononent, so I'm always looking at ways to mitigate my monthly 'nut'.

I don't think John Wick needs 40k to 'survive'. He mentioned 'standard of living' as well as 'obligations'. He could be a light, moderate, or heavy spender. He could be a business owner. More likely, I think he has several mortgage payment obligations spread over a few properties (commercial or residential) where income comes in from tenants if any of them are not all paid off. I think this man has a high leverage factor as opposed to a high survival 'nut'. Good debt. I have heard of different philosophies of investing - ones where a person is more cash poor/liquid and ones where a person is always operating on high cash liquidity reserves.. and I think it's all personal risk tolerance and also strategy. Gurus have been speaking to the next economic downturn since 2008, predicting 'every 10 years' or so and to always position yourself so that you will be able to respond strategically and of sound mind. I wonder moreso than this question, what are ways that people mitigate their financial risks?

Another question I have is.. aside from one's monthly 'nut', what is the ratio of that versus your monthly aspired net profit goal (including equity contributions) in order for you to be happy? Is this a % or a dollar amount?

To answer the initial question... my number could either be 7k or 25k - depending on which factors we are considering based on others' responses. Of course, I doubt everyone is trying to maintain the same standard of living pre-covid, so my relative numbers drop slightly.
 

John Wick

Baba Yaga
Oct 25, 2019
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I wonder if now, 3 months after posting this thread, if people are considering the question in a different light? For some, savings are virtually gone, employment still only crawling back in some sectors. That monthly nut number may be the single biggest thing keeping people up at night wondering where that next $500 will come from to 'keep the lights on'.

Personally, I have spoke to many individuals who've been laid off, seen their businesses shuttered, or actually gotten sick and could not work. These people are really suffering, and their monthly nut to keep from being put out on the street has ranged anywhere from $2K per month to $15K per month.

Any new perspectives four months in?
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,136
6,347
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Room 112
Mortgage/rent - $2,915
Car payment - $735
Investment loan - $440
Credit line interest - $150
Telephone/utilities - $405
Food/household supplies $800
Bank charges - $60
Legal fees - $1,500
Total $7005

Not a lot of wiggle room here. Thank God I haven't been affected by the shutdown much.
 
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Sunlight

Member
Feb 26, 2020
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Montreal, Canada
Being a small business owner, I know how tough the shutdown could be. I had to spend my savings and even run into debts. As there was no possibility to get a bank loan, I had to get a cash advance https://maybeloan.com/cash-advance. Fortunately, I've already paid it off. Now I'm thinking about putting money into another account in order to have more savings.
 
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jelly baby

Active member
Aug 11, 2019
256
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My exact budget amount is:

Rent = covered by govt.
Dental = covered by govt.
Food = 250
Internet = 200
Basic Supplies = 150
Emergency = 50
Transit = Believe it or not, I walk, something you Jelly Bellies have NEVER done in your life.

TOTAL = 650 per month

My real totals are this:

Sep = 140.35
Oct = 416.55
Nov = 742.30
Dec = 667.20
Jan = 498.04
Feb = 245.73
Mar = 452.28
Apr = 666.03
May = 337.78
Jun = 279.61
Jul = 565.65
Aug = 391.87
Sep = 361.45
Oct ( so far ) = 240

I have a credit at Bell Canada of 205 dollars, and I ate 510 approx in restaurant food ( even though I spoke against the restaurant industry as a MEGA WASTE OF $$$ ).

Therefore the amounts are adjusted as:

-205
+255 ( food in the grocery store is added as 50% less cost )

Hence:

Rent = 0 - conservative taxpayers have to fund me
Dental = 0 - conservative taxpayers ( like Mike Harris ) have to fund me
Basic Costs - 447.29
Emergency - 50

Total - about 500 dollars a month.

Howdy Pard-ner

EDIT = I was going to eat more expensive food, like meat and vegetables, if DOUG FORD thinks I'm wasting taxpayer money I say FUCK THE TAXPAYER. You will pay. LOL.
 
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Danny46709394

Active member
Feb 25, 2017
209
105
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My exact budget amount is:

Rent = covered by govt.
Dental = covered by govt.
Food = 250
Internet = 200
Basic Supplies = 150
Emergency = 50
Transit = Believe it or not, I walk, something you Jelly Bellies have NEVER done in your life.

TOTAL = 650 per month
Ok, I am not gonna say anything about rent and dental, but for fuck sake. How you spend 200 on internet? I get mine with Bell gigabit and a mobile phone with 11G, is just came up to $130 after tax.
 

Archer2012

Active member
Jul 3, 2017
375
217
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My nut is actually quite small - I spend jack shit - the usual crap heat / hydro / property taxes (the largest one) / insurance (we are insuranced to death). My nut take home (NET) is $723.15. Kidding - way more than that but one should know down to the penny what they are going to owe to whom. The NET is what matters - NOT the gross - thats false economy.

I am one of lucky ones - own a ..... never laid off one Employee, never did work share (reduced week). My Accountant scolded me - but COVID is not anyone’s fault. We all worked to make this Business what it is In my estimation - we are where we are because of our People. I’m no saint - I’m a capitalist for sure. But I try to be one with a consciousness.
NOW MY BUSINESS NUT - let’s not even talk about that. That’s a hustle / grind.
 

jelly baby

Active member
Aug 11, 2019
256
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Ok, I am not gonna say anything about rent and dental, but for fuck sake. How you spend 200 on internet? I get mine with Bell gigabit and a mobile phone with 11G, is just came up to $130 after tax.
I pay Bell about:

TV = 70 ???
Phone = 60
Internet = 100

I also have a cell phone.

I used to cut the TV, desk phone and internet during April/May and then during Sep/Oct, I can use the library. Because of coronavirus the library shut down so I decided to cut the telly only.

Therefore my 230 plus tax is more like 180.

With the complete cuts I mentioned it's more like 165. My cell, on Telus, is 100 plus tax for a year.

The 200 is the budgeted amount, the exact amount is less, as I mentioned.

My calculations are exact.

YOU WASTED A MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE READING THIS, SORRY.
 

Archer2012

Active member
Jul 3, 2017
375
217
43
I pay Bell about:

TV = 70 ???
Phone = 60
Internet = 100

I also have a cell phone.

I used to cut the TV, desk phone and internet during April/May and then during Sep/Oct, I can use the library. Because of coronavirus the library shut down so I decided to cut the telly only.

Therefore my 230 plus tax is more like 180.

With the complete cuts I mentioned it's more like 165. My cell, on Telus, is 100 plus tax for a year.

The 200 is the budgeted amount, the exact amount is less, as I mentioned.

My calculations are exact.

YOU WASTED A MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE READING THIS, SORRY.
BELL = Rip off. Just call them say during COVID I have to cancel unless you can reduce - THEY WILL!
 

Archer2012

Active member
Jul 3, 2017
375
217
43
I got pissed recently looking at $350 a month from Bell just for TV and land line when I don’t watch their TV - don’t use a land line. called and it’s now less than a hundred. Still have all the channels I don’t watch.
 

Danny46709394

Active member
Feb 25, 2017
209
105
43
I pay Bell about:

TV = 70 ???
Phone = 60
Internet = 100

I also have a cell phone.

I used to cut the TV, desk phone and internet during April/May and then during Sep/Oct, I can use the library. Because of coronavirus the library shut down so I decided to cut the telly only.

Therefore my 230 plus tax is more like 180.

With the complete cuts I mentioned it's more like 165. My cell, on Telus, is 100 plus tax for a year.

The 200 is the budgeted amount, the exact amount is less, as I mentioned.

My calculations are exact.

YOU WASTED A MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE READING THIS, SORRY.
You need to call bell and ask them to drop the rate. I am paying $75 after tax for gigabit internet/basic TV/ home phone combo. I don't use home phone nor TV, but is only $5 different. My phone is with Koodo $50 after tax for 11g.

I would definitely call bell it Rogers and see who can offer lower rate.
 

jelly baby

Active member
Aug 11, 2019
256
94
43
You need to call bell and ask them to drop the rate. I am paying $75 after tax for gigabit internet/basic TV/ home phone combo. I don't use home phone nor TV, but is only $5 different. My phone is with Koodo $50 after tax for 11g.

I would definitely call bell it Rogers and see who can offer lower rate.
Thanks for helping me but no.

I surrender.

Also, a big thank you to Archer2012.

RESPECT.
 

luvyeah

🤡🌎
Oct 24, 2018
2,553
1,206
113
A good ISP is Fibrestream. If I lived in Toronto I'd choose them.

Or Beanfield.
 
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rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,591
1,194
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I am one of lucky ones - own a ..... never laid off one Employee, never did work share (reduced week). My Accountant scolded me - but COVID is not anyone’s fault. We all worked to make this Business what it is In my estimation - we are where we are because of our People. I’m no saint - I’m a capitalist for sure. But I try to be one with a consciousness.
Good man. Me too. I've been having my workers do yardwork for the entire Spring and Summer. They're still getting a full paycheck, even though we've been taking Friday off too. One guy took a voluntary layoff because he had something lined up, but otherwise we are still full staffed. We've been blessed with more than a decade of extraordinary growth, and that's the result of us all working together to succeed.

Don't expect most to see it that way though! I think most owners see all fruits of their employee's labor as their due, simply because they are paid a wage. Those employees could be responsible for huge boons for the company, and still...owners see it as their due. I don't get it. Definitely some are more responsible for success than others, but I try to reward those people for their efforts. If that means cutting into cash flow to keep things afloat during this pandemic, so be it.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,713
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I think I'm in the average? Between Mortgage(bought before the big gains) property tax, utilities, debt reduction(no CC, one credit line for home reno) food, insurance, cat, maybe in the $3500 range? But we also are continuing to put money away for retirement.

Obviously vacation costs are near nil. Did a night in Niagara for some wine buying(a few cases later.....Stratus is a great winery) Discretionary spending account is rising. I'm just sitting on it. Considering a new laptop and waiting for the vaccine.

Vegas once it hits will be fantastic for hobby for a few years. It always is during a downturn.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,463
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Lewiston, NY
As if this is really anybody's business. Who do you think you are, Amazon?
 
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