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Thread: Bernie Bros warn of ‘massive exodus’ if Democrats nominate Joe Biden

  1. #1

    Bernie Bros warn of ‘massive exodus’ if Democrats nominate Joe Biden

    Bernie Bros warn of ‘massive exodus’ if Democrats nominate Joe Biden
    By Jon Levine

    By Jon Levine
    March 14, 2020 | 12:25pm
    Bernie Sanders speaking during a rally in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
    Bernie Sanders speaking during a rally in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Getty Images

    The Bernie Bros are vowing revenge.

    As the presidential campaign of Sen. Bernie Sanders continues to crash and burn, the socialist’s most hard-core supporters are vowing they will never vote for Joe Biden at the ballot box — even if that means handing Trump a second term.

    “We will never – NEVER boost or support Joe Biden or defend his abysmal record and terrible policy positions,” Henry Williams, executive director of The Gravel Institute, told The Post. “We will tell people, as we always have, to vote their conscience and to make decisions based on the interests of all the world’s oppressed people … I do expect a massive exodus from the Democratic Party.”

    Williams, along with David Oks and Henry Magowan, are the driving forces behind the brief presidential campaign of Mike Gravel, an 89-year-old former Alaska senator who left the race in August. The trio then became enthusiastic Bernie Bros.

    “I don’t know if I could vote for Biden,” said a high-profile local Democratic Socialist. “Biden is just an old white guy who inspires nobody. I sincerely think he will lose the electoral and popular vote and I know I won’t be voting for him in New York.”

    The grumbling from Sanders die-hards is no idle threat. A whopping 12% of them voted for Trump in 2016, according to an analysis by Cooperative Congressional Election Study. That added up to roughly 216,000 voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, exit polls showed. Trump’s combined margin of victory in those states was 77,744.

    An untold number of additional Sanders fans almost certainly stayed home or voted third party in 2016 in an election plagued by low turnout on both sides. Green Party candidate Jill Stein earned more votes in each rust-belt battleground than the margin separating Trump from Hillary Clinton. One of those Jill Stein voters was Briahna Joy Gray — Sanders’ current campaign spokesperson.

    Other Bernie Bros are attempting to split the difference, urging comrades to bolt from Biden in safe states, but hold their nose and pull the lever for him in the swings.

    “I have seen a whole lot of people who live in Wisconsin or live in a state like Pennsylvania who feel very obligated to vote for whoever the [Democratic] nominee is because they’re just thinking it’s a zero sum game,” Sam Finkelstein, a law student at Seton Hall University and ferocious Twitter Bernie Bro told The Post.

    An aide to Biden insisted that his strength with other demographics would more than offset renegade Bros, but told the Post they recognized the challenge and were prepared for outreach.

    “It is going to be our job to bring the party together and reach out to everyone and create a united front,” the aide said.

    After sweeping to victories in the early states, many believed Sanders was on a glide path to the Democratic nomination. The momentum was halted by Biden after a crushing victory in South Carolina and strong showings on Super Tuesday. Former establishment rivals like Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg and Mike Bloomberg quickly consolidated around the former vice president. Now, far behind in the delegate math, it’s Sanders who finds his campaign on life-support.

    Bernie Sanders continues to fight in the Democratic Primaries despite key loses to Joe Biden.
    Bernie Sanders continues to fight in the Democratic Primaries despite key loses to Joe Biden.AFP via Getty Images
    Though party bosses have been agonizing over how to nudge the 78-year-old socialist out of the race, his cheerleaders say the senator should fight on — at least through Sunday’s debate and another round of voting Tuesday — and potentially even further. In 2016, Sanders soldiered into June and only endorsed Hillary Clinton in July, inhibiting her consolidation of the party.

    “I think staying in the race is the responsible thing to do,” Bhaskar Sunkara, founder and editor of the socialist magazine Jacobin told The Post. “He needs to challenge Biden on certain aspects of his rhetoric. He needs to accumulate clout and delegates to shape the Democratic platform and pressure the Biden campaign into adopting a more popular economic platform.”

    Sunkara says he too has no plans to vote for Biden.
    https://twitter.com/dianalogue2/stat...303410177?s=21


    These guys are idiots.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle Ball View Post
    No. The party is not entitled to votes. They have to earn them.

    It's that simple.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  3. #3
    The Bernie bros would rather have Trump than Biden

  4. #4
    It's a lot of bluster.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gooseifur View Post
    The Bernie bros would rather have Trump than Biden
    Are you staying that people should be forced to vote for Biden?
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  6. #6
    Luckily, there aren't that many of these people. (And if you look at #DemExit on twitter you can see how much it is being astroturfed.)

    The ones who want the Dems to "earn their votes" but actually are just lying because they weren't going to vote democratic anyway (hell, they couldn't even be bothered to go vote for Bernie) are the loudest. These are people who, like Butler, don't want progressive goals or to improve things, they just want to be in charge instead. For them, damaging the Democratic party is more important because they want to take over. If that hurts the country it doesn't matter, because the goal is getting into power.

    As always, in a system that sets up an iron-clad version of Duverger's Law, this kind of third party spoiler push can be very damaging. Especially since the system is badly designed enough that there are a number of asymmetrical tipping points.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Valcazar View Post
    Luckily, there aren't that many of these people. (And if you look at #DemExit on twitter you can see how much it is being astroturfed.)

    The ones who want the Dems to "earn their votes" but actually are just lying because they weren't going to vote democratic anyway (hell, they couldn't even be bothered to go vote for Bernie) are the loudest. These are people who, like Butler, don't want progressive goals or to improve things, they just want to be in charge instead. For them, damaging the Democratic party is more important because they want to take over. If that hurts the country it doesn't matter, because the goal is getting into power.

    As always, in a system that sets up an iron-clad version of Duverger's Law, this kind of third party spoiler push can be very damaging. Especially since the system is badly designed enough that there are a number of asymmetrical tipping points.
    The two party system is in fact a one policy system for the donors who give to both. With a public/private revolving door for major appointed positions and board seats. And an underlying class of pundits, think tank experts, and consultants sucking at the public teat and lobby firms. With the corporate owed press cheering on "their side" to create a fake division.

    And the middle and poor get screwed.

    And more and more are sick of it. Don't doubt the effect this will have. It isn't a few.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    The two party system is in fact a one policy system for the donors who give to both.
    Let's assume that is true. How does your "give myself and those who support my goals even less power in the system" approach help with that?
    Are you willing to start shooting people or what, because your current approach is at odds with your stated goals.

    With a public/private revolving door for major appointed positions and board seats. And an underlying class of pundits, think tank experts, and consultants sucking at the public teat and lobby firms. With the corporate owed press cheering on "their side" to create a fake division.

    And the middle and poor get screwed.

    And more and more are sick of it. Don't doubt the effect this will have. It isn't a few.
    Again.
    Are you intending to start killing people and doing violence?
    Because literally nothing you are proposing would actually address what you say is going on.

    If you feel the fact of the two party system is all a sham, then your intention to not vote in a way that gets people you want into power seems counter productive.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Valcazar View Post
    Let's assume that is true. How does your "give myself and those who support my goals even less power in the system" approach help with that?
    Are you willing to start shooting people or what, because your current approach is at odds with your stated goals.

    Again.
    Are you intending to start killing people and doing violence?
    Because literally nothing you are proposing would actually address what you say is going on.

    If you feel the fact of the two party system is all a sham, then your intention to not vote in a way that gets people you want into power seems counter productive.
    Indeed...Butler’s approach can only lead to authoritarian rule such as Castro, Kim Jong Un, Putin, etc. Any dissent would be “counter-revolutionary.”

  10. #10
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    Krystal Ball: The left doesn't owe Joe Biden their vote

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGhCxQLd6nk

    Nuff said.

  11. #11
    The left should vote for whatever they think will advance their interests.

    In a two party system, the question is "do I advance my interests more with Trump or Biden".

    Any answer a leftist gives that says "Trump" is a sign that person does not understand reality well.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oracle View Post
    Krystal Ball: The left doesn't owe Joe Biden their vote

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGhCxQLd6nk

    Nuff said.
    A single pundit giving her opinion, and lo and behold it is doomsday for Biden, as the whole "left" is now refusing to support him. Really??

    Especially, as Biden is gaining the support of many of those who voted for Sanders in 2016 nominations. Sanders has not been able to rille up the passion to keep all those supporters!!

    He was far more competitive in the 2016 nominations and seems to do even better in the first few primaries / caucuses but has tanked since then!!


    Stay Healthy, Stay Safe, Stay at Home

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Valcazar View Post
    Let's assume that is true. How does your "give myself and those who support my goals even less power in the system" approach help with that?
    Are you willing to start shooting people or what, because your current approach is at odds with your stated goals.



    Again.
    Are you intending to start killing people and doing violence?
    Because literally nothing you are proposing would actually address what you say is going on.

    If you feel the fact of the two party system is all a sham, then your intention to not vote in a way that gets people you want into power seems counter productive.
    Where are you getting violence from? I'm simply stating either the party comes around and adds progressive policy, or voters can choose not to vote.

    It's that simple.

    Or vote third party, write in a name. Whatever.

    Unless the Democratic party thinks they can lose the vote, they will take it for granted. If it results in four more years of Trump, to gain their power and respect for their vote, many are saying so be it.

    This isn't an intellectual exercise. This is going to happen. And it's up to the Dems to decide if they want to change policy stances. It's the party's problem. Not the voters.

    No political party owns a vote.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    A single pundit giving her opinion, and lo and behold it is doomsday for Biden, as the whole "left" is now refusing to support him. Really??

    Especially, as Biden is gaining the support of many of those who voted for Sanders in 2016 nominations. Sanders has not been able to rille up the passion to keep all those supporters!!

    He was far more competitive in the 2016 nominations and seems to do even better in the first few primaries / caucuses but has tanked since then!!
    Not the whole. But if only 10% say fuck him, he is.

    And it will be the fault of the party leadership, not the voters.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Valcazar View Post
    The left should vote for whatever they think will advance their interests.

    In a two party system, the question is "do I advance my interests more with Trump or Biden".

    Any answer a leftist gives that says "Trump" is a sign that person does not understand reality well.
    Except Biden doesn't advance their interests. His voting and legislation record proves that. He has worked in fact against their interests on numerous occasions.

    In that there is so little difference they no longer want to enable choosing bad leaders.

    They can stay home. Only vote down ballot. But the notion that a candidate can command a vote is as undemocratic as it gets. And any attempt at Voter Shaming for refusing to fall in line is as well.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle Ball View Post
    Indeed...Butler’s approach can only lead to authoritarian rule such as Castro, Kim Jong Un, Putin, etc. Any dissent would be “counter-revolutionary.”
    Demanding someone vote for someone they hate is the definition of what you stated above. Democracy includes the right to not vote.

    It's you stating no dissent from the party.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    Demanding someone vote for someone they hate is the definition of what you stated above. Democracy includes the right to not vote.

    It's you stating no dissent from the party.
    Nobody is forcing anyone to vote.
    Tone it down, you're sounding like some shrill anarchist these days.
    I'm surprised you haven't started marching the streets to try to bring the system down.
    Don’t be a tough guy. Don’t be a fool! I will call you later

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    Demanding someone vote for someone they hate is the definition of what you stated above. Democracy includes the right to not vote.

    It's you stating no dissent from the party.
    When any candidate decides to run for a party’s nomination there is an implicit contract that if s/he loses, s/he and their supporters will support the candidate who winds up winning the most votes. Other Dems would have supported your guy if he won so you owe them the same.

    Of course, nobody can force candidates and their followers to vote for anyone and people break this commitment all the time...but when that happens it is generally viewed as a selfish, shitty kinda move.

    Moreover, you keep saying there is no real difference between Trump and Biden. Most people, including Bernie, disagree with you.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle Ball View Post
    When any candidate decides to run for a party’s nomination there is an implicit contract that if s/he loses, s/he and their supporters will support the candidate who winds up winning the most votes. Other Dems would have supported your guy if he won so you owe them the same.

    Of course, nobody can force candidates and their followers to vote for anyone and people break this commitment all the time...but when that happens it is generally viewed as a selfish, shitty kinda move.

    Moreover, you keep saying there is no real difference between Trump and Biden. Most people, including Bernie, disagree with you.
    Sure, Bernie can support Biden. That's his choice.

    But what he can't do is demand his supporters do the same. He can ask. But that's it.

    Judging from the comments I've seen since Biden Said he would veto Medicare for all , he has lost them and they will never vote for him.

    Oh, and his support can also Disagree with Sanders assessment of the candidate. That is their right as well.

    You see we don't blindly follow a candidate. We follow policy.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankfooter View Post
    Nobody is forcing anyone to vote.
    Tone it down, you're sounding like some shrill anarchist these days.
    I'm surprised you haven't started marching the streets to try to bring the system down.
    "Vote Blue no matter Who" says the opposite. As does the continued vote shaming I've seen. By the Media and on line.

    If Biden gets the Nom and loses to Trump who will you blame? Biden? Or the voters?
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    Since when did anybody owe anybody else a vote. The issue is ousting trump. Once there is a nominee, that is the person Dems should be championing.
    Maybe for you. But for others it's something greater.
    I endorse Senator Bernie Sanders for President in 2020.

    It is my hope Tulsi Gabbard becomes his running mate.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    Maybe for you. But for others it's something greater.
    Individual policies are not greater than the risk of losing their democracy. trump has started chipping away at it and is guaranteed to continue. He must be removed. That is the prime objective.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    ...

    You see we don't blindly follow a candidate. We blindly follow policy.
    Indeed.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler1000 View Post
    "Vote Blue no matter Who" says the opposite. As does the continued vote shaming I've seen. By the Media and on line.

    If Biden gets the Nom and loses to Trump who will you blame? Biden? Or the voters?
    I believe you and the rest of the Trump Supporting Bernie Bros will be close to the top of the list.

    And yes...you should be ashamed- you and the Bros are aggressively trying to crash the country into the sun to teach us all a lesson for not voting for your guy. That is a shitty thing to do.

    Frankly I am surprised to hear you complaining about “vote shaming.” I don’t believe you guys are capable of experiencing shame so it seems odd this would bother you.

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