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Thread: When it comes to climate hypocrisy, Canada's leaders have reached a new low

  1. #1
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    When it comes to climate hypocrisy, Canada's leaders have reached a new low

    Bill McKibben
    5 Feb 2020

    Americans elected Donald Trump, who insisted climate change was a hoax Ė so itís no surprise that since taking office heís been all-in for the fossil fuel industry. Thereís no sense despairing; the energy is better spent fighting to remove him from office.

    Canada on the other hand, elected a government that believes the climate
    crisis is real and dangerous Ė and with good reason, since the nationís Arctic territories give it a front-row seat to the fastest warming on Earth. Yet the countryís leaders seem likely in the next few weeks to approve a vast new tar sands mine which will pour carbon into the atmosphere through the 2060s. They know Ė yet they canít bring themselves to act on the knowledge. Now that is cause for despair.

    The Teck mine would be the biggest tar sands mine yet: 113 square miles of petroleum mining, located just 16 miles from the border of Wood Buffalo national park. A federal panel approved the mine despite conceding that it would likely be harmful to the environment and to the land culture of Indigenous people. These giant tar sands mines (easily visible on Google Earth) are already among the biggest scars humans have ever carved on the planetís surface. But Canadian authorities ruled that the mine was nonetheless in the ďpublic interestĒ.

    Hereís how Justin Trudeau, recently re-elected as Canadaís prime minister, put it in a speech to cheering Texas oilmen a couple of years ago: ďNo country would find 173 billion barrels of oil in the ground and leave them there.Ē That is to say, Canada, which is 0.5% of the planetís population, plans to use up nearly a third of the planetís remaining carbon budget. Ottawa hides all this behind a series of pledges about ďnet-zero emissions by 2050Ē and so on, but they are empty promises. In the here-and-now they canít rein themselves in. Thereís oil in the ground and it must come out.

    This is painfully hard to watch because it comes as the planet has supposedly reached a turning point. A series of remarkable young people (including Canadians such as Autumn Peltier) have captured the imagination of people around the world; scientists have issued ever sterner warnings; and the images of climate destruction show up in every newspaper. Canadians can see the Australian blazes on television; they should bring back memories of the devastating forest fires that forced the evacuation of Fort McMurray, in the heart of the tar sands complex, less than four years ago.

    The only rational response would be to immediately stop the expansion of new fossil fuel projects. Itís true that we canít get off oil and gas immediately; for the moment, oil wells continue to pump. But the Teck Frontier proposal is predicated on the idea that weíll still need vast quantities of oil in 2066, when Greta Thunberg is about to hit retirement age. If an alcoholic assured you he was taking his condition very seriously, but also laying in a 40-year store of bourbon, youíd be entitled to doubt his sincerity, or at least to note his confusion. Oil has addled the Canadian ability to do basic math: more does not equal less, and 2066 is not any time soon. An emergency means you act now.

    In fairness, Canada has company here. For every territory making a sincere effort to kick fossil fuels (California, Scotland) there are other capitals just as paralyzed as Ottawa. Australiaís fires creep ever closer to the seat of government in Canberra, yet the prime minister, Scott Morrison, canít seem to imagine any future for his nation other than mining more coal. Australia and Canada are both rich nations, their people highly educated, but they seem unable to control the zombie momentum of fossil fuels.

    Thereís obviously something hideous about watching the Trumps and the Putins of the world gleefully shred our future. But itís disturbing in a different way to watch leaders pretend to care Ė a kind of gaslighting that can reduce you to numb nihilism. Trudeau, for all his charms, doesnít get to have it both ways: if you canít bring yourself to stop a brand-new tar sands mine then youíre not a climate leader.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ched-a-new-low

  2. #2
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    Seems more correct to say Canada's leaders have reached
    a new high in climate hypocrisy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by oil&gas View Post
    Seems more correct to say Canada's leaders have reached
    a new high in climate hypocrisy.
    They do need to go much further so we're not too far behind the global changes.

    Cramer: “We’re in the Death Knell Phase” of Big Oil, as 44% of Norway New Autos are Electric
    https://www.juancole.com/2020/02/cra...-electric.html
    Donít be a tough guy. Donít be a fool! I will call you later

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankfooter View Post
    They do need to go much further so we're not too far behind the global changes.

    Cramer: “We’re in the Death Knell Phase” of Big Oil, as 44% of Norway New Autos are Electric
    https://www.juancole.com/2020/02/cra...-electric.html
    Where pray tell is Norway going to plug those cars in?
    Norway is pretty darn cold. electric vehicles do not work well in cold climates

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    Where pray tell is Norway going to plug those cars in?
    Where pray tell were the first gasoline automobiles filled with petrol?
    Holy shortsighted (or completely blind) Batman.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    Where pray tell were the first gasoline automobiles filled with petrol?
    Holy shortsighted (or completely blind) Batman.
    I think larue must be about 94 or so, his ideas are so far in the past.
    Donít be a tough guy. Donít be a fool! I will call you later

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    Norway is pretty darn cold. electric vehicles do not work well in cold climates
    Far less moving parts, instant heat.
    Seems like a great solution for cold climates.
    Try again.

  8. #8
    Interesting charts on renewable energy in the EU.

    Coal phase out dates:



    Changes in generation:
    https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/e...222402274.html
    Donít be a tough guy. Donít be a fool! I will call you later

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    Far less moving parts, instant heat.
    Seems like a great solution for cold climates.
    Try again.
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/driv...hicles-winter/

    The trouble with electric vehicles – winter
    It’s well known that electric cars are affected by the cold, but half the range in sub-zero weather? Half?
    Mark Murakami, of Mississauga, told me he’s put 87,000 km on his Bolt in the past two years after owning a series of gas-powered cars and then an electric Smart car. He loves it, but he’s realistic about its winter limitations.

    “If it wasn’t the winter, you’d go 300 or 320 km, but in winter you see a drastic drop,” he said. “It takes a lot longer to charge, too. I used to have a Level 2 charger at home, and it was great, but right now, I’m renting and I don’t have a charger in my garage. That’s why I’m sitting here now.”
    Now think about driving in Canada or Norway or Russia /


    Seems like a great solution for cold climates.
    So, no it is not a great solution for cold climates


    Try again.
    Learn some physics

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/driv...hicles-winter/







    Now think about driving in Canada or Norway or Russia /



    So, no it is not a great solution for cold climates




    Learn some physics
    Yeah... because solar and batteries haven't been used in space for decades.
    Colder than any spot on earth... yet we don't truck diesel up to the ISS do we?
    Get back on your horse and wagon and ride into the sunset granpa.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    Where pray tell were the first gasoline automobiles filled with petrol?
    Holy shortsighted (or completely blind) Batman.
    Petrol was a readily available as by-product of refining oil to obtain kerosene of illumination (oil lamps).
    Before cars it use to be a problem getting rid of it as it was pretty flammable

    80% of the world energy comes from fossil fuels which includes most of the electricity generated
    True renewables solar & wind 5-10% maybe, this after decades of subsides. 20% of energy demand is likely the max they will ever produce (at enormous costs ) and they are unreliable. "Shit I cant drive my kids to hockey because it was cloudy all weekend)
    Burning biomass or biofuel produces just as much CO2 as burning oil, so that is no answer
    Hydro is also a renewable, but try getting a permit to damn up a river to build new ones. incremental at best
    Nuclear is a viable option, but the loonies are dead set against nuclear and will fight tooth and nail to stop it.

    Try running an aluminum or copper smelter driven by wind power. "Damn that did not work'
    Electric cars require massive amounts of aluminum & copper . BTW the loonies also want to stop all mining

    So despite the fact this is just not physically possible, and world wide energy demand will continue to increase
    The plan is to make a ton of electric cars and simultaneously shut down the source of 80% of our energy ????


    So again I ask you
    Where pray tell is Norway going to plug those cars in?

    And perhaps you may reconsider who is the short sighted one
    No need to apologise. I know most people do not really understand this

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    Petrol was a readily available as by-product of refining oil to obtain kerosene of illumination (oil lamps).
    Before cars it use to be a problem getting rid of it as it was pretty flammable

    80% of the world energy comes from fossil fuels which includes most of the electricity generated
    True renewables solar & wind 5-10% maybe, this after decades of subsides. 20% of energy demand is likely the max they will ever produce (at enormous costs ) and they are unreliable. "Shit I cant drive my kids to hockey because it was cloudy all weekend)
    Burning biomass or biofuel produces just as much CO2 as burning oil, so that is no answer
    Hydro is also a renewable, but try getting a permit to damn up a river to build new ones. incremental at best
    Nuclear is a viable option, but the loonies are dead set against nuclear and will fight tooth and nail to stop it.

    Try running an aluminum or copper smelter driven by wind power. "Damn that did not work'
    Electric cars require massive amounts of aluminum & copper . BTW the loonies also want to stop all mining

    So despite the fact this is just not physically possible, and world wide energy demand will continue to increase
    The plan is to make a ton of electric cars and simultaneously shut down the source of 80% of our energy

    So again I ask you
    Where pray tell is Norway going to plug those cars in?

    And perhaps you may consider who is the short sighted one
    When the first automobiles hit the road, there wasn't a Petro Canada on every corner.
    Yet here we are.
    Get with the times and accept progress, gramps.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    Yeah... because solar and batteries haven't been used in space for decades.
    Colder than any spot on earth... yet we don't truck diesel up to the ISS do we?
    Get back on your horse and wagon and ride into the sunset granpa.
    Do you have several million space grade batteries available in stock?
    How much for a space grade battery ? Those are not duracells
    No clouds in space either einstein

    The power requirements of any satellite orbiting (floating) around in space are minimal, they have to be due to weight restrictions
    I bet more energy is required to take the kids to school in Toronto every day than is used by all the satellites orbiting the earth presently

    You really do understand much about energy at all do you?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    Do you have several million space grade batteries available in stock?
    How much for a space grade battery ? Those are not duracells
    No clouds in space either einstein

    The power requirements of any satellite orbiting (floating) around in space are minimal, they have to be due to weight restrictions
    I bet more energy is required to take the kids to school in Toronto every day than is used by all the satellites orbiting the earth presently

    You really do understand much about energy at all do you?
    You don't understand much about progress, do you?
    Things that were impossible on the commercial scale decades ago are now commonplace and exist in your pocket.
    Stop living in your horse-drawn caravan, and accept that progress is inevitable... even if it has to face the roadbumps and hurdles of fossils like you and trump.
    Deal with it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    When the first automobiles hit the road, there wasn't a Petro Canada on every corner.
    Yet here we are.
    Get with the times and accept progress, gramps.
    Oh you you see the problem as a distribution issue which will just require building lots of charging stations?
    Wrong

    look einstein, we burn 100 million barrels of oil per day and that number is growing
    You would need a land mass the size of russia completely covered with solar panels to replace that amount of energy.
    There is not enough copper on the planet to do what you think is the answer

    Wake up !
    Get educated !

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    You don't understand much about progress, do you?
    Things that were impossible on the commercial scale decades ago are now commonplace and exist in your pocket.
    Stop living in your horse-drawn caravan, and accept that progress is inevitable... even if it has to face the roadbumps and hurdles of fossils like you and trump.
    Deal with it.
    Learn some physics fool

    Things that were impossible on the commercial scale decades ago are now commonplace and exist in your pocket.
    If you had a clue you would know inexpensive energy has been the primary driver behind man kinds rapid increase in achievements and living standards.
    Take it away & see what happens

    You may well wind up driving that horse -drawn buggy if we continue down this path

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLarue View Post
    Learn some physics fool
    I'm sure the ferrier told the same thing to Henry Ford.
    Wake up and accept progress granpa.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankfooter View Post
    Interesting charts on renewable energy in the EU.

    Coal phase out dates:



    Changes in generation:
    https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/e...222402274.html
    Tell that to Japan...

    https://www.ecowatch.com/japan-new-c...645025570.html

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankfooter View Post
    They do need to go much further so we're not too far behind the global changes.

    Cramer: “We’re in the Death Knell Phase” of Big Oil, as 44% of Norway New Autos are Electric
    https://www.juancole.com/2020/02/cra...-electric.html
    Huge New Field Sends Norway’s Oil Production To 9-Year-High


    At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy, is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper - no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of the point.

  20. #20
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    Itís Kyoto all over again....


    At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy, is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper - no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of the point.

  21. #21
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    Since Greta decided to point out Trudeau's hypocrisy regarding the tar sands we all know what the result will be .......... hike the carbon tax!! It's ok to pollute of you pay enough carbon tax!
    swollen member

  22. #22
    From your article.
    Norway’s oil production is expected to jump in 2020 through 2023, thanks to the start up of Johan Sverdrup, which began pumping oil in early October 2019. But after Johan Sverdrup and after Johan Castberg in the Barents Sea scheduled for first oil in 2022, Norway doesn’t have major oil discoveries and projects to sustain its oil production after the middle of the 2020s.
    Donít be a tough guy. Donít be a fool! I will call you later

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by apoptygma View Post
    Far less moving parts, instant heat.
    Seems like a great solution for cold climates.
    Try again.
    How is your electric vehicle doing this winter?
    Oh right you don’t have one because you’re a hypocrite like the rest of them.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginomore View Post
    How is your electric vehicle doing this winter?
    Oh right you don’t have one because you’re a hypocrite like the rest of them.
    You really shouldn't open your mouth if you don't know what you are talking about.

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