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Should Ford Legislate the Teachers Back To Work?

Should Ford Legislate The Teachers Back To Work?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 37.0%
  • No

    Votes: 24 32.9%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ford Should Find A Way To Fire The Teachers

    Votes: 11 15.1%
  • Ford Should Cut His Losses And Meet The Teachers Demands

    Votes: 11 15.1%

  • Total voters
    73

John Wick

Baba Yaga
Oct 25, 2019
2,276
2,495
113
Before negotiations even began, he told the teachers what their raise will be, that their class sizes will be increasing by 6 and that further jobs will be slashed by forcing the students to get credits by taking online courses. These things should be decided at the bargaining table. Any chance of having the teachers 'play nice' or conceding was clusterfucked from the outset by Lord Clusterfuck in a way that only he can clusterfuck things.
Only the issue of pay is truly a collective bargaining item. The province has the unilateral legal right and authority to set class sizes and define curriculum. The teachers unions talk as though they are the employer, not the employee hired to do a job.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
17,886
12,295
113
That's a weird argument. Usually both sides give their starting positions before bargaining starts. The bargaining table is for, you know, bargaining.
Regardless, when the situation is ridiculous salaries/benefits for teachers, and class sizes we obviously can't afford, I'm not sure if there's any point in bargaining to begin with. Even if Ford got everything he wanted, it'd still be a shite deal for taxpayers. That's how far the spectrum is skewed in favour of teachers and against taxpayers. And as soon as Liberals take power -- likely next term -- they'd reverse it anyway.
You consider 90k a year for a teacher who went to University overpaid? What would you like to pay for them? I couldn't survive on 90K a year or let me say I wouldn't be happy with 90K a year, would you?

I actually have had SB's from Teacher's College and from the supply teacher's pool. LOL
 

John Wick

Baba Yaga
Oct 25, 2019
2,276
2,495
113
You see. Look at the last 2 posts before this.

People on both sides of the spectrum despise Doofo and mock him and blame him. He literally can't win this because he's held in contempt.
Lots of people say Ford can't win again, but who exactly is the brilliant Liberal or NDP leader that will replace him? I haven't seen anyone spectacularly inspiring come forward from either camp since Ford took office.
 

oral.com

Sapere Aude, Carpe Diem
Jul 21, 2004
850
450
63
Toronto
It’s actually mind boggling to believe that unions are going to war over 1%.
In addition, small changes in class size at the high school level has been proven to make no difference in test scores or university entrance.
No matter what your personal opinions are of Ford, he needs to stand firm, no legislated BTW, no giving in.
The public education system in Ontario is a tire fire.
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
Just hire scabs

Do you know how many people graduate teachers college and cant get work?

Its a high paying cushy job
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,518
2,375
113
You consider 90k a year for a teacher who went to University overpaid? What would you like to pay for them? I couldn't survive on 90K a year or let me say I wouldn't be happy with 90K a year, would you?

I actually have had SB's from Teacher's College and from the supply teacher's pool. LOL
Don't forget they also get the summers off, a week off at Christmas, a week off at March break, excellent benefits, excellent pension, plus they take an average of 11 sick days. That means they work an average of 170 days a year. I make more than teachers, but I run my own business and employ a lot of people. Teachers are well compensated. If they don't like it, maybe they should seek alternative employment. But they won't, because it's a good gig.
 

John Henry

Active member
Apr 10, 2011
1,298
1
38
Only a loser who can't negotiate in good faith will legislate them back to work, which is what that fat fuck will need to do.
What does the fact that he's fat have to do with anything . Do you have a problem with fat people . Bob Rae is a skinny person . Do like him better because he's skinny .
 

John Henry

Active member
Apr 10, 2011
1,298
1
38
Don't forget they also get the summers off, a week off at Christmas, a week off at March break, excellent benefits, excellent pension, plus they take an average of 11 sick days. That means they work an average of 170 days a year. I make more than teachers, but I run my own business and employ a lot of people. Teachers are well compensated. If they don't like it, maybe they should seek alternative employment. But they won't, because it's a good gig.
It's not about money . It's classroom size .
 

John Henry

Active member
Apr 10, 2011
1,298
1
38
You consider 90k a year for a teacher who went to University overpaid? What would you like to pay for them? I couldn't survive on 90K a year or let me say I wouldn't be happy with 90K a year, would you?

I actually have had SB's from Teacher's College and from the supply teacher's pool. LOL
You can't survive on $90k a year . Than you have a problem . Look around you and open your eyes . Not many people make that kind of money . Maybe the people who you hang around with but MOST don't make near that kind of money . Does a full time waitress or a full time house cleaner make that kind of money . What about a full time cashier . The guy working at a gas station who is supporting a family . Does he make that kind of money . What world do you live in ???

There are millions of people that would love to earn $90K a year .
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,518
2,375
113
It's not about money . It's classroom size .
Less students per class = more teachers = more money for Government to shell out and thus more money for unions. So no, it's not about classroom size. It's about money.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,717
7,990
113
Toronto
Less students per class = more teachers = more money for Government to shell out and thus more money for unions. So no, it's not about classroom size. It's about money.
It's about money to the righties...…………..AS IT ALWAYS IS.

In fact the righties are so obsessed with money that they can't fathom the very basic concept that smaller class size results in a better education for the kids because the teacher has more time to devote to each student.

As in most things in life, you get what you pay for. So, imagine that, if we want our kids to have a better education, it will cost more money. And there is nothing more important to the future of our society than having a highly educated youth. Not even tax breaks for big business and the 1%.

So, too bad, it is ONLY all about the money to the righties, not to people who place value on our kids' educations.
 

John Henry

Active member
Apr 10, 2011
1,298
1
38
Less students per class = more teachers = more money for Government to shell out and thus more money for unions. So no, it's not about classroom size. It's about money.

Since when does a teacher care about making more money for the Union .
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,518
2,375
113
It's about money to the righties...…………..AS IT ALWAYS IS.

In fact the righties are so obsessed with money that they can't fathom the very basic concept that smaller class size results in a better education for the kids because the teacher has more time to devote to each student.

As in most things in life, you get what you pay for. So, imagine that, if we want our kids to have a better education, it will cost more money. And there is nothing more important to the future of our society than having a highly educated youth. Not even tax breaks for big business and the 1%.

So, too bad, it is ONLY all about the money to the righties, not to people who place value on our kids' educations.
But I do value education. I'm also aware that Ontario spends $1 Billion on interest alone to service the debt. But I guess that doesn't matter to you.


Since when does a teacher care about making more money for the Union .
They don't. It's the unions that make from teachers. The more teachers, the more union dues. Smaller class sizes = more teachers = more money for unions. That's why the union are pushing for smaller classes. It means more jobs for teachers and more money for them. All you have to do is follow the $$$ to understand what's going on.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,745
680
113
Lock them out.
Good advise :). And were can you find the substitutes? It is not a manual labour that requires little skills. Lecture plans cannot be just made in a day and change midway. Grades cannot be computed by two different teachers with different teaching plans. Recommendation letters for students cannot be written by "new" teachers.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,760
17,579
113
You can't survive on $90k a year . Than you have a problem . Look around you and open your eyes . Not many people make that kind of money . Maybe the people who you hang around with but MOST don't make near that kind of money . Does a full time waitress or a full time house cleaner make that kind of money . What about a full time cashier . The guy working at a gas station who is supporting a family . Does he make that kind of money . What world do you live in ???

There are millions of people that would love to earn $90K a year .
I don't think the salaries are that high, that would mean that almost all elementary and high school teachers were at the very top of the union pay grid.
Not really likely.

How much is Ford spending on his plan to reimburse parents for expenses on strike days?
Rumours say its $4-8 million just on that alone.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,745
680
113
Before negotiations even began, he told the teachers what their raise will be, that their class sizes will be increasing by 6 and that further jobs will be slashed by forcing the students to get credits by taking online courses. These things should be decided at the bargaining table. Any chance of having the teachers 'play nice' or conceding was clusterfucked from the outset by Lord Clusterfuck in a way that only he can clusterfuck things.
Second that. Class sizes should go down, not up. Advanced subjects for smart students should be introduced (even if only a few students will take it) and teachers should teach these advanced classes as their regular teaching load (not overtime). Special after-class science programs should be made available and teachers should be paid to ruin them. It is not teachers who are not willing to negotiate, it is the government that wants to take away th little thins that are still left at schools.
 

dickydoem

Area 51 Escapee
Apr 15, 2003
1,179
64
48
Stuck in Lodi again
Second that. Class sizes should go down, not up. Advanced subjects for smart students should be introduced (even if only a few students will take it) and teachers should teach these advanced classes as their regular teaching load (not overtime). Special after-class science programs should be made available and teachers should be paid to ruin them. It is not teachers who are not willing to negotiate, it is the government that wants to take away th little thins that are still left at schools.
And unicorns should shit gold coins out of their ass.

Looking back at an old years book almost all classes had 30+ students and I didn't get an inferior education. And in elementary school we only had one teacher in the classroom without a bunch of special aids and assistants

Teachers make far above the average wage in Ontario.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,804
2,266
113
Yes, he should order them back, but that's just because that's the only tool available to him at this time. However, for a lasting solution (assuming he is unwilling to allow competition for public funding of schools) he needs to reformulate labour law for the education sector, removing the right to strike or lockout and requiring arbitration of bargaining disputes.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,717
7,990
113
Toronto
But I do value education. I'm also aware that Ontario spends $1 Billion on interest alone to service the debt. But I guess that doesn't matter to you.




They don't. It's the unions that make from teachers. The more teachers, the more union dues. Smaller class sizes = more teachers = more money for unions. That's why the union are pushing for smaller classes. It means more jobs for teachers and more money for them. All you have to do is follow the $$$ to understand what's going on.
If they need money, depriving our youth, the future of our society, is not the place to save it. That is just STUPID and short-sighted.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,745
680
113
And unicorns should shit gold coins out of their ass.

Looking back at an old years book almost all classes had 30+ students and I didn't get an inferior education. And in elementary school we only had one teacher in the classroom without a bunch of special aids and assistants

Teachers make far above the average wage in Ontario.
When teachers make less than plumbers, there is something really wrong with the society. Trying to add to the teachers work through class sizes simply means that they will not have time to do their job properly. If we want the teachers only read aloud the textbook and give multiple-choice tests from the textbook test bank, then by all means, hire anyone who can read and pay $20/hour for doing it. Teachers want to do their job right.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts