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The Oracle

The Oracle

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Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
shack said:
Gambling is a crime much worse than cheating. You are now bringing a criminal element into the game. The biggest scandal in the history of baseball is the Black Sox. Gamblers got involved and we know what happened. MLB will do whatever it has to to avoid anything like that again. Rose bet on his own team, but what if he was in over his head and some gamblers threatened him unless he threw some games. It can be a slippery slope. That is why he will never get in.

Question, if they took away the Astros WS, would you agree that Rose should stay out?
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Rose cooked himself by pressing the same lie over and over again.

Either plead the fifth or tell the truth and plead for leniency.

Although it is a slippery slope I could make a case that his betting on his own team shows how ultra competitive he is.

And if he showed true contrition when first accused he might be back in the game now.

But being egocentric ( just like a certain president) he couldn't bring himself to admit he had broken the rules. And from what I'm told this is something that is drilled into you every spring training. You can't bet on games. You can't plead ignorance here. Every player literally signs off on this.
 
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Celticman

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The Oracle said:
Rose cooked himself by pressing the same lie over and over again.

Either plead the fifth or tell the truth and plead for leniency.

Although it is a slippery slope I could make a case that his betting on his own team shows how ultra competitive he is.

And if he showed true contrition when first accused he might be back in the game now.

But being egocentric ( just like a certain president) he couldn't bring himself to admit he had broken the rules. And from what I'm told this is something that is drilled into you every spring training. You can't bet on games. You can't plead ignorance here. Every player literally signs off on this.
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MLB feels so strongly about betting on games, probably exacerbated by the long ago Black Sox scandal, that any player who bets will be banned for life and declared ineligible for the HOF with no ifs ands or buts about it. Contrition will not cut the mustard.
 
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Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
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Celticman said:
MLB feels so strongly about betting on games, probably exacerbated by the long ago Black Sox scandal, that any player who bets will be banned for life and declared ineligible for the HOF with no ifs ands or buts about it.
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Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson (who some argue was innocent) are two of the best hitters ever in MLB.

Question: Has any MLB HOF'er ever been expelled from the HOF? For example, if Rose was elected to the HOF and only later discovered he bet on games, would he be expelled from the HOF?
 
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Celticman

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Darts said:
Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson (who some argue was innocent) are two of the best hitters ever in MLB.

Question: Has any MLB HOF'er ever been expelled from the HOF? For example, if Rose was elected to the HOF and only later discovered he bet on games, would he be expelled from the HOF?
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It has never happened.

There has been new information from MLB on their ineligible list. They say that once deceased it no longer applies as you can no longer be employed in or be a part of MLB. So Rose and Shoeless Joe could be eligible, the latter now of course.
 
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Darts

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Celticman said:
There has been new information from MLB on their ineligible list. They say that once deceased it no longer applies as you can no longer be employed in or be a part of MLB. So Rose and Shoeless Joe could be eligible, the latter now of course.
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Interesting new information. Based on what they did between the white lines Shoeless Joe and when the inevitable happens to Rose should be in the HOF.

In hockey, Alan Eagleson was forced to resign from the HOF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Eagleson

Again in hockey, "Jackson's personal problems led Hall chairman Conn Smythe to blacklist him from entry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busher_Jackson
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Darts said:
Interesting new information. Based on what they did between the white lines Shoeless Joe and when the inevitable happens to Rose should be in the HOF.

In hockey, Alan Eagleson was forced to resign from the HOF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Eagleson

Again in hockey, "Jackson's personal problems led Hall chairman Conn Smythe to blacklist him from entry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busher_Jackson
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I thought you specifically asked about expulsion from BBHOF which CM answered. What do Eagleson and Jackson have to do with Walker's induction?
 
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Celticman

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shack said:
I thought you specifically asked about expulsion from BBHOF which CM answered. What do Eagleson and Jackson have to do with Walker's induction?
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Let me answer for him. Nothing.
 
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shack

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Celticman said:
Let me answer for him. Nothing.
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Since he started talking about the hockey HOF I thought that maybe a discussion of Steve Shutt or Guy Lapointe was next.
 
Insidious Von

Insidious Von

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I checked out the BBHOF voting and found at the bottom of the list someone named PJ Putz.

Someone voted for the late great Bob Einstein.

 
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shack

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Darts said:
I thought we were talking about Halls of Fame and who gets in or not. Anyway, no point making a mountain out of a molehill.
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In that case why did you post about hockey?
Darts said:
In hockey, Alan Eagleson was forced to resign from the HOF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Eagleson

Again in hockey, "Jackson's personal problems led Hall chairman Conn Smythe to blacklist him from entry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busher_Jackson
Click to expand...
Maybe you should acknowledge that this info was inappropriate to the discussion.
 
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Darts

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shack said:
Maybe you should acknowledge that this info was inappropriate to the discussion.
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You are taking this thread way too seriously. It started out about Walker being elected to the HOF (congrats), then it morphed into a discussion about why Bonds, Clemens, Rose and maybe A-Rod are not and might not ever be in the HOF. Then a member mentioned the Black Sox scandal. So, the thread had already evolved way beyond just Walker. At that point it's just a short reach to mention the experience of another major sports HOF in expelling/admitting members.
 
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gcostanza

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Jul 24, 2010
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Darts said:
You are taking this thread way too seriously. It started out about Walker being elected to the HOF (congrats), then it morphed into a discussion about why Bonds, Clemens, Rose and maybe A-Rod are not and might not ever be in the HOF. Then a member mentioned the Black Sox scandal. So, the thread had already evolved way beyond just Walker. At that point it's just a short reach to mention the experience of another major sports HOF in expelling/admitting members.
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Ok, whatever.
 
S

shack

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Darts said:
You are taking this thread way too seriously.
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But you were the one that just said that we are supposed to be talking about Walker and the BBHOF. Weren't you serious when you said that?
 
D

Darts

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The Oracle said:
Bonds stats sky rocket once he get to San Fran and he starts working with Victor Conte and Balco Labs. And we all know what was happening there.

By making the selfish decision he did he took away that knowledge.We just have no way of knowing. So based on what do know about him I would not vote for him.

He and the rest of the PED crowd are cheats and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same conversation as the greats who played this beautiful game that we love.
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If any of the cheats and frauds get in I think the MLB HOL'ers should do what the NHL'ers did in the Alan Eagleson situation.

shack said:
But you were the one that just said that we are supposed to be talking about Walker and the BBHOF.
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I was serious when I said you were taking this thread too seriously.
 
S

shack

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Darts said:
I was serious when I said you were taking this thread too seriously.
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I don't take much of what you say seriously but okay, whatever.
 
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