Corked bats.
Spitballs
Fixing games/series
Sharpen spikes
Brass knucks in their gloves
Stealing signs is a BIG no-no
- Thread starter shack
- Start date
Spitballs
Fixing games/series
Sharpen spikes
Brass knucks in their gloves
Turn it back into a "real man's" sport. Watch out to all the Ray Fosse's.
Every Astros road games will be meet with jeers "Cheaters! Cheaters! Cheaters!" in 2020.
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Well.... Maybe those World Series rings should be re-issued with a big, fat, fucking asterisk where the diamond used to be.
There will be some creative signs in the stadiums. How about "Hey Altuve, you and my wife have something in common, can you pay for my divorce?"
Why don't Bonds and Clemens do what Houston did, admit that they cheated, show contrition and allow and accept whatever punishment MLB decides is appropriate. As well, as I am typing, I believe that the HOF is a separate entity independent of MLB. HOF has their selection criteria and MLB awards the WS. So Bonds, Clemens and HOF have nothing to do with Houston and their WS. There is no linkage.
If MLB declares a player ineligible for MLB play or activities the fully independent HOF has a rule that you must be MLB eligible to be HOF considered.
In 1991, the Hall of Fame passed a rule declaring that any player ruled ineligible by Major League Baseball could not appear on a Hall of Fame ballot. This became known as the "Pete Rose rule," because it closely followed the indefinite banning of Rose, MLB's all-time hits leader, by commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti in 1989.
I find all of this to be a massive over-reaction. If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. Stealing signs is part of baseball...and if your signs are that easy to steal it’s your own fault.
It's one thing to have batters or runners on second leering in and stealing signs.
It's quite another to have the home teams using camera's from centre field and relaying the feeds to monitors in the clubhouse. Then those once interpreted relayed to the hitters.
That's about as egregious as it gets.
Your '' If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying'' mantra is kind of interesting considering you sure don't like when a certain president does it involving the election.
I was aware of the circumstance with Rose. But at this point, unlike Rose, Clemens and Bonds are eligible and it is the voters keeping them out, not MLB. But again, there is no way to tie their circumstance to taking away Houston's WS as Khufu proposed.
Correct. In fact no player from the PED era has been banned. Here are all the players and execs that have been banned over the years. From the days of Landis hardly anyone.
Jack O’Connor and Harry Howell, manager and coach for the St. Louis Browns, 1910: They tried to fix the 1910 American League batting race and help Nap Lajoie beat Ty Cobb.
Horace Fogel, owner of the Philadelphia Phillies, 1912: He accused National League umpires of favoring the New York Giants and making wrong calls against his team.
The Black Sox: Eddie Cicotte, Lefty Williams, Chick Gandil, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Happy Felsch, Buck Weaver and Shoeless Joe Jackson. Accused of throwing the 1919 World Series against the Cincinnati Reds. Jackson and Weaver's involvement with the scandal has been disputed throughout the years, but all were banned by Landis.
Bennie Kauff, New York Giants outfielder, 1920: Was arrested for selling a stolen car at his car lot. Was acquitted, but Landis said the trial was a sham and banned Kauff.
Joe Gedeon, St. Louis Browns second baseman, 1920: Was a friend of one of the gamblers who conspired to fix the 1919 World Series and was banned for "having guilty knowledge" of the fix.
Gene Paulette, Philadelphia Phillies infielder, 1920: Offered to throw games in 1919 and was accused of receiving gifts from known St. Louis gamblers. Banned by Landis.
Lee Magee, Chicago Cubs outfielder, 1920: Released by the Cubs before the season began, he sued the team for $9,500, and lost. During the trial, it was revealed he had bet on his teams over the years and when it was over, was banned by Landis.
Ray Fisher, Cincinnati Reds pitcher, 1921: He asked for his release after he signed a contract with the Reds that was $1,000 less than the season before, and they refused. Instead of reporting to the team, he took a job as University of Michigan coach. The Reds tried to entice him to come back, but because he left the team after signing a contract, Landis banned him.
Phil Douglas, New York Giants pitcher, 1922: After a fight with Giants manager John McGraw, Douglas sent a letter to Les Mann, who played for the St. Louis Cardinals, saying he would take inducement to leave the team so the Giants couldn't win the pennant. He was banned by Landis.
Jimmy O'Connell and Cozy Dolan, New York Giants, 1924: The pair offered to pay Philadelphia Phillies shortstop Heinie Sand $500 to throw a game between the two teams.
William Cox, Philadelphia Phillies owner, 1943: Admitted to betting on his team, saying he didn't know it was against the rules. Was banned by Landis.
Pete Rose, Cincinnati Reds manager, 1989: Was found guilty of betting on his team, despite repeated denials. Eventually, Rose accepted a permanent place on baseball's ineligible list. Was banned by Bart Giamatti.
Jenrry Mejía, New York Mets pitcher, 2016: Tested positive three times for steroids in one year. Was banned by Rob Manfred.
Chris Correa, St. Louis Cardinals scouting director, 2017: Was sentenced to almost four years in prison for hacking the Houston Astros' player-personnel database and email system. Was banned by Manfred.
John Coppolella, Atlanta Braves general manager, 2017: Was accused of circumventing the international signing rules over the course of three years. Was banned by Manfred.
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Houston ownership went up and above MLB's punishment. Firing the GM, manager and others, who built a perennial contender is not going to help his team's competitive edge, especially so close to the start of the season.
Regardless, I guess you need to convince the voters of the great inequity. In the meantime, my point stands that due to the processes at hand, it is impossible to link Bonds/Clemens exclusion to Houston's punishments rendered or suggested. Different governing bodies are involved with their own independent rules and decisions.
Question:I know those two were never caught by drug tests but do you personally believe that they did not juice? They were clean?
No dif for this year, but for the subsequent years. It still hurts them competitively and was self imposed by the org. They took the charges seriously, unlike Rose, and Bonds/Clemens, though not caught, have been asked numerous times and continue to lie about it.
My point is that the Astros have displayed a different attitude than the other three individuals, whom some people feel should be aggrieved for.
I'm not so sure about that. Look how long it took them to fire their assistant GM after he made comments regarding Osuna. It wasn't until overwhelming evidence and public pressure they finally pulled the trigger.
I also feel like ownership must have known they were cheating once the allegations came out, and they waited until mlb found them guilty before they did anything.
Shack see post #43. You still feel that way? Because today's press conference by the Astros and their owner was despicable and once again, proving they're only willing to own up to things they have to when facing public pressure. They once again had a chance to show people they were truly sorry, accept accountability, and they fucked it up yet again. Their attitude is no different then Bonds and Clemmens.
Based on the latest interviews at training camp, they don't sound terribly contrite as initially reported, especially the owner. They do sound like dicks.
Take away the WS. There was no WS awarded in '94 because of a strike so there is a precedent for no winner. As long as Bonds and Clemens don't get into the Hall.:eyebrows:
