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Was Dimaggio's 56 game hit streak bogus?

Celticman

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In article published in the Canadian magazine Walrus by David Robbeson asks, "Was Joe DiMaggio's fifty-six-game hitting streak the greatest feat in all of sports or merely a product of its time?"

Dan Daniel was a baseball writer who had covered the Yankees for a long time, was a personal friend of many of the players, traveled with the team and submitted his expenses to it. He was also the official home-game scorer for the Yankees. He decided, among other things, whether any at-bat should be adjudged a hit by the batter or an error by the fielder, yet he was, in Robbeson's words, "as much a PR man as a reporter."

Specifically, Robbeson cites two games in the middle of the streak, the 30th and 31st, when DiMaggio managed just one hit. In each of these games, the hit was suspect and could well have, and perhaps should have, been deemed an error.

The first involved a bad bounce that hit off the shoulder of shortstop Luke Appling after he reached for it. Hits and errors were not immediately recorded on the scoreboard so, Robbeson writes, some spectators believed the streak had come to an end. Daniel, however, called it a hit.

The 31st game of the streak involved a fielding play that was also arguably an error on the part of Appling, who got his glove on the ball, but dropped it. Again Daniel scored it a hit.

How could this have happened without arousing more controversy? Robbeson argues that despite the present Olympian status of the streak, at the time American involvement in World War II was looming and attention to the then-29-game streak and its fluky extension was not intense and baseball attendance was quite low. Amazingly, the attendance in 22 of the games during the streak was less than 10,000.

In short, the streak wasn't that big a deal then.
 

shack

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I don't buy it. In that era, no one else did it. And being suspicious about hits in games 31 and 32? It would have taken some prescience there as he was still about 15 games away from the existing record.

It is what it is and should not be bastardized by today's atmosphere of suspicion and conspiracy theories (leave that for the Sleazy one and I don't mean Frank). Those were simpler times.
 

scouser1

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Dec 7, 2001
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Every American sports record before full racial integration in the 1960s should be stricken off the record and not count starting with baseball and then on to the NBA, where it was 5 white dudes vs 5 other white dudes.
 

gcostanza

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In article published in the Canadian magazine Walrus by David Robbeson asks, "Was Joe DiMaggio's fifty-six-game hitting streak the greatest feat in all of sports or merely a product of its time?"

Dan Daniel was a baseball writer who had covered the Yankees for a long time, was a personal friend of many of the players, traveled with the team and submitted his expenses to it. He was also the official home-game scorer for the Yankees. He decided, among other things, whether any at-bat should be adjudged a hit by the batter or an error by the fielder, yet he was, in Robbeson's words, "as much a PR man as a reporter."

Specifically, Robbeson cites two games in the middle of the streak, the 30th and 31st, when DiMaggio managed just one hit. In each of these games, the hit was suspect and could well have, and perhaps should have, been deemed an error.

The first involved a bad bounce that hit off the shoulder of shortstop Luke Appling after he reached for it. Hits and errors were not immediately recorded on the scoreboard so, Robbeson writes, some spectators believed the streak had come to an end. Daniel, however, called it a hit.

The 31st game of the streak involved a fielding play that was also arguably an error on the part of Appling, who got his glove on the ball, but dropped it. Again Daniel scored it a hit.

How could this have happened without arousing more controversy? Robbeson argues that despite the present Olympian status of the streak, at the time American involvement in World War II was looming and attention to the then-29-game streak and its fluky extension was not intense and baseball attendance was quite low. Amazingly, the attendance in 22 of the games during the streak was less than 10,000.

In short, the streak wasn't that big a deal then.
No, it was not bogus.
 
O

OnTheWayOut

Every American sports record before full racial integration in the 1960s should be stricken off the record and not count starting with baseball and then on to the NBA, where it was 5 white dudes vs 5 other white dudes.
Including all the pre 1960 records that were held by non-white athletes? There are tons of them.
 

The Oracle

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Let's not forget one thing though. DiMaggio was a right handed hitter playing in the biggest park for right handed hitters in the majors.

Old Yankee stadium although close down the lines was 490 ft to straight away centre and 435ft I believe to right centre. that's just ridiculous.

I was listening to a radio broadcast once and Phil Rizzuto said that he counted over 20 balls DiMaggio hit that year that were over 420ft that were outs!

Which is why there was a possible trade being talked about in those days between the Red Sox and the Yankees of DiMaggio for Ted Williams. DiMaggio being at a disadvantage in Yankee Stadium and Williams being at a disadvantage as a left hand hitter at Fenway. Of course the fleecing of the Sox over the Ruth trade didn't help the possibility of that trade any.
 

shack

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Which is why there was a possible trade being talked about in those days between the Red Sox and the Yankees of DiMaggio for Ted Williams.
Can you imagine any trade being bigger than that?

Out of curiosity, do you know how far they were into their respective careers when this was being discussed? Joe D. was older, no?
 

gcostanza

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...Joe D. was older, no?
Joe D. November 25, 1914
Teddy Ballgame August 30, 1918

Joe missed 3 seasons due to military service.
Ted missed 3 seasons, parts of 2 more to military service.

Ted was a far superior ballplayer, in my opinion.
Ted also saw a tremendous amount of combat.
Joe, not so much.
 

Celticman

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Ted Williams, born 1918, hit 521 home runs despite losing 5 prime years of his career to WW2 and the Korean War. Otherwise he might have approached 700 home runs.

Joe Dimaggio, born 1914, hit 361 home runs despite missing 3 years to WW2. Otherwise he might have hit 500 home runs.

So despite the disadvantages that each man faced in their home parks Williams was substantially more productive as a home run hitter. That could be debated to some degree as Williams as a left hitter would have faced a lot of right handers (lefty advantage) whereas Dimaggio as righty vs. righty was disadvantaged.
 

The Oracle

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Can you imagine any trade being bigger than that?

Out of curiosity, do you know how far they were into their respective careers when this was being discussed? Joe D. was older, no?
Joe was 4 years older yes. The year that DiMaggio set the 56 game hitting streak record Williams hit .406.

Think about that you hit .406 and you don't win the MVP that year.

Both lost 3 of their prime years to the war as well.

I know this a thread about DiMaggio but Williams was in my opinion perhaps the greatest hitter the game has ever seen.

DiMaggio would probably just edge him out as a better overall player though. He was a gazelle in centre and the best base runner on the team.

He didn't steal very many bases though. He could of but why chance it with the lineups they had.
 

gcostanza

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It is indeed a thread about DiMaggio, but since we're on a Ted Williams tangent,
Ted thought he was a better fisherman than he was a ballplayer.

Ted was John Glenn's wingman.
 

Carvher

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A bad bounce is a hit anyway, your second "error" could have been a legit judgement call. Home scorers have made favourable calls for the home team thru the history of the game. I saw Ripken make an obvious error in Baltimore during his streak that was judged a hit.
 

bluecolt

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Let's not forget one thing though. DiMaggio was a right handed hitter playing in the biggest park for right handed hitters in the majors.

Old Yankee stadium although close down the lines was 490 ft to straight away centre and 435ft I believe to right centre. that's just ridiculous.

I was listening to a radio broadcast once and Phil Rizzuto said that he counted over 20 balls DiMaggio hit that year that were over 420ft that were outs!

Which is why there was a possible trade being talked about in those days between the Red Sox and the Yankees of DiMaggio for Ted Williams. DiMaggio being at a disadvantage in Yankee Stadium and Williams being at a disadvantage as a left hand hitter at Fenway. Of course the fleecing of the Sox over the Ruth trade didn't help the possibility of that trade any.
Yankee Stadium was not as vast as you make it. I was a great Yankees fan in the 60s. Left field corner was 318 feet, right field corner was 314 feet. Hence dead pull hitters could pop them easily, like right field at Fenway Park. The right field porch, where Roger Maris hit most of his home runs was only about 375, if I remember. It was later moved back to 385 feet . Left-centre field, or Death Valley was indeed 399 feet. I recall many hitters pounding the ball to the fence for a loud out where it would have been ten rows back in Tiger Stadium. Centre field was 466 to the monuments in centre field. They were later moved behind the fence and the fence was moved in to 408 feet. Yankee Stadium was not a bad place to hit, as long as you weren't a right hand hitter. If you were a left hand hitter, it was Paradise. Gehrig, Ruth, Mantle, Maris all hit lots of home runs onto the right field porch. Berra and DiMaggio weren't as lucky from the right hand box. Mickey Mantle hit the right field roof facade three times during his career. I saw one on television on NBC in the sixties. It was a massive shot.
 

shack

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I will say it was BOGUS

During the streak he was the:

Best
Offensive
Genius in the
United
States
 

The Oracle

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Yankee Stadium was not as vast as you make it. I was a great Yankees fan in the 60s. Left field corner was 318 feet, right field corner was 314 feet. Hence dead pull hitters could pop them easily, like right field at Fenway Park. The right field porch, where Roger Maris hit most of his home runs was only about 375, if I remember. It was later moved back to 385 feet . Left-centre field, or Death Valley was indeed 399 feet. I recall many hitters pounding the ball to the fence for a loud out where it would have been ten rows back in Tiger Stadium. Centre field was 466 to the monuments in centre field. They were later moved behind the fence and the fence was moved in to 408 feet. Yankee Stadium was not a bad place to hit, as long as you weren't a right hand hitter. If you were a left hand hitter, it was Paradise. Gehrig, Ruth, Mantle, Maris all hit lots of home runs onto the right field porch. Berra and DiMaggio weren't as lucky from the right hand box. Mickey Mantle hit the right field roof facade three times during his career. I saw one on television on NBC in the sixties. It was a massive shot.
Yeah except one thing the dimensions of Yankee stadium were different in 1941 than that which you are citing.

Old Yankee stadium was even shorter down the lines. 295 ft to right and 285 to left. but it was 490 to centre and 435 to left center I believe. So death valley was huge for a right hand hitter like DiMaggio. Here's picture of what he was hitting into;

 

Phil C. McNasty

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I dont think it was bogus, but I also think he wouldnt be able to duplicate it in todays modern shift era
 

shack

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I dont think it was bogus, but I also think he wouldnt be able to duplicate it in todays modern shift era
All sports evolve and probably no elite athlete in any sport from 70 or 80 years ago would stand a chance against current athletes. Maybe a freak of nature like Wilt (50-60 years ago) one of the most dominating athletes in any sport, but even he most likely would suffer due to unsophisticated training, nutrition, modern defences, more tall players and he fucked too much. LOL.

So the old, comparing athletes from years gone by to current day is a meaningless discussion.
 

Insidious Von

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So the old, comparing athletes from years gone by to current day is a meaningless discussion.
I disagree shack. The Black Sox Scandal set baseball back several decades. After the Federal League folded, they players issued an anti-trust suit against MLB. The presiding judge never came to a decision, he was KKK supporter Kenesaw Landis. Had he not used the scandal to make himself Commissioner with absolute power, baseball may have integrated much sooner. The game was headed in that direction when Landis took over, he put a stop to it, baseball wouldn't integrate until after he passed away.

Had baseball integrated after WW I, the Yankees would have been locked with Pittsburgh Pirates for the WS Title. The Pirates wanted to bring in Josh Gibson as his catcher but Landis was violently against it. Had Gibson joined MLB, it would be his home run records that the Steroid Era would go after. Hank Aaron and Roger Maris would not have broken them.

 
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