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The most useless day of impeachment hearings so far.

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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It looks like the Dummycrats will vote to impeach, but it will never get past the Senate since 20 Republicans have to go along with it.
So how will the senate repugs argue that trump did not obstruct Congress which is one of the articles of impeachment? He ignored all subpoenas and did not allow any of his people to testify? Even if the Dems were incorrect in their assertion of wrongdoing in Ukraine, it doesn't change that he did not comply with requests that were legal and obstructed the investigation by failing to do so.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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So how will the senate repugs argue that trump did not obstruct Congress which is one of the articles of impeachment? He ignored all subpoenas and did not allow any of his people to testify? Even if the Dems were incorrect in their assertion of wrongdoing in Ukraine, it doesn't change that he did not comply with requests that were legal and obstructed the investigation by failing to do so.
The House Democrats have not challenged any Executive "rejections' therefore the charge of obstruction is without merit. The fact that the House "requested" or even subpoenaed evidence does not mean that the Executive has to comply without seeking a judicial opinion of the Court. This is a laughable amateur hour all around.
 

shack

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The House Democrats have not challenged any Executive "rejections' therefore the charge of obstruction is without merit. The fact that the House "requested" or even subpoenaed evidence does not mean that the Executive has to comply without seeking a judicial opinion of the Court. This is a laughable amateur hour all around.
So you are saying that Congress does not have the power of oversight? It is in the constitution, not something the courts need to decide.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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The House Democrats have not challenged any Executive "rejections' therefore the charge of obstruction is without merit. The fact that the House "requested" or even subpoenaed evidence does not mean that the Executive has to comply without seeking a judicial opinion of the Court. This is a laughable amateur hour all around.
It's the height of hypocrisy. The Obama Administration routinely ignored the House.

On June 28, 2012, Holder became the first U.S. Attorney General in history to be held in both criminal and civil contempt. He was held, by a bipartisan vote, in contempt by the House of Representatives in a 255–67 vote, with 17 Democrats voting for the measure, 2 Republicans voting against the measure.
 

WyattEarp

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If anything this might hurt the Dummycrats because history shows the country tends to unite with a President if they feel he's been unfairly impeached
I don't think a House Impeachment moves the needle either way. The 2020 election will still be a long, tiring slog. It will be decided in swing states by blue collar men and suburban women.
 

jcpro

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So you are saying that Congress does not have the power of oversight? It is in the constitution, not something the courts need to decide.
That's not what I said at all. The House can subpoena the Executive Branch to its heart content, but it still has to show cause. Curiosity or a suspicion are not enough. Neither has the Congress the power of the oversight over the President- only over the executive agencies. The Branches are equal. The Legislative is not above the Executive or the Judicial.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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That's not what I said at all. The House can subpoena the Executive Branch to its heart content, but it still has to show cause. Curiosity or a suspicion are not enough. Neither has the Congress the power of the oversight over the President- only over the executive agencies. The Branches are equal. The Legislative is not above the Executive or the Judicial.
You are soooo wright.

Eisenberg, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Perry, Bolton and the rest of Trump's Ukrainian Extortion ring were/are just trivialities.
 

jcpro

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You are soooo wright.

Eisenberg, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Perry, Bolton and the rest of Trump's Ukrainian Extortion ring were/are just trivialities.
Really? Why didn't Schiff insist on having Bolton in front of his committee?
 

shack

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That's not what I said at all. The House can subpoena the Executive Branch to its heart content, but it still has to show cause.
It doesn't. It is at their discretion. This is not a court of law. Regardless, they had plenty of cause to hear from Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, etc., especially when your repugs wanted transparency and 1st hand witnesses.
 

shack

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WyattEarp

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Bolton publicly refused.
Hmmm, so why didn't they subpoena him?

I'm guessing the Dems had a hunch that Bolton's testimony would not help their case and maybe even hurt their case.
 

jcpro

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Hmmm, so why didn't they subpoena him?

I'm guessing the Dems had a hunch that Bolton's testimony would not help their case and maybe even hurt their case.
Exactly! They had no time for a potential court battle on the eve of the primaries. That's how serious they considered Trump's "crimes".
 

WyattEarp

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Exactly! They had no time for a potential court battle on the eve of the primaries. That's how serious they considered Trump's "crimes".
I think the Dems calculated that Bolton was just teasing them. They would go through this big court motion, force him to testify and he would deliver nothing. That itself could've been so anticlimactic the impeachment effort could have deflated as a result.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Exactly! They had no time for a potential court battle on the eve of the primaries. That's how serious they considered Trump's "crimes".
Trump is trying to use court challenges to run out the clock.
Same thing for his taxes, emoluments, immigration and now subpoenas.
 

shack

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Hmmm, so why didn't they subpoena him?

I'm guessing the Dems had a hunch that Bolton's testimony would not help their case and maybe even hurt their case.
Dream on. He said he'd ignore the subpoena and like the others who did ignore them, the Dems didn't want to drag it out through the courts where it would have taken too much time.

As if the guy who described the Ukraine plan as a drug deal was going to paint trump and Giuliani in a favourable light.
 

wigglee

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Is there any law that Tramp could break that would dissuade support from the Terb rightwingers or for that matter, the redneck deplorables who hoot at his "rallies"? I suspect not.
 

shack

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Is there any law that Tramp could break that would dissuade support from the Terb rightwingers or for that matter, the redneck deplorables who hoot at his "rallies"? I suspect not.
That is the problem. The cultists have lost all sense of what is right and what is wrong. It is sad but also very scary. They are destroying their democracy.
 

WyattEarp

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Dream on. He said he'd ignore the subpoena and like the others who did ignore them, the Dems didn't want to drag it out through the courts where it would have taken too much time.

As if the guy who described the Ukraine plan as a drug deal was going to paint trump and Giuliani in a favourable light.
So we know Bolton would be a star, nail in the coffin first hand witness for the Dems, but they can't wait? The second paragraph doesn't seem to follow on the logic of the first.

I think it's easier to believe the Dems figured out Bolton was teasing them and in the end even if he testified he would not provide them with any damning first hand testimony. They took a calculated risk they had enough evidence.
 
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