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Polling Upside Down on Impeachment

Dutch Oven

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Simple question: Why was the presidents lawyer and Nunes meeting with the very oligarch accused of corruption?
If you wanted to answer the questions I posed to bver_hunter, you should have posted answers, not a question. That's how a dialogue works.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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Spell out the exact crime that was involved as Mueller investigated it and found none. The Intel Agencies did not manage to find any either. Ethically, was it right?? Probably not. But tell me something. Trump imposes tariffs on China. Then his daughter has dinner with the President of China, and she is then awarded 16 or so trademarks. This especially after her own brands in clothing and other types of apparel were shut down due to poor sales. I am waiting to hear whether this does require investigations or not. Did Trump use the tariffs as a buffer, just to get his daughter all these trademarks??
No answers to the questions I posed. Maybe you thought the answers wouldn't fit well with what you'd like to say?

And, no, Mueller did not investigate whether Biden helped that Ukrainian oligarch. No one has.
 

Dutch Oven

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Do you think that's any better or worse than foreign diplomats renting massive amounts of Trump hotel rooms and then leaving them empty?
Hmmm. 3 people supportive of the Democrats respond to my questions, but none of them answers the questions. Either there just isn't any answer to give that would paint Biden in a good light, or Democratic supporters just don't like to answer questions!
 

Dutch Oven

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Firstly you will see if you took 10 seconds to looks that it was not CNN etc. Do your own homework before you make uninformed statements.

By the way what do you think Lev Parnas got by paying Rudy $500K. But of course that is different.

Also by the way if there is alleged criminal activity by an American citizen who do you think should investigate it? The DOJ which is the law enforcement agency of the US or Lindsay Graham who is nothing more than an apologist and enabler of the Chosen One? Don't bother answering everyone knows your answer.
At least your approach was original. You didn't answer the questions, while instead asking questions of your own. That was par for the course. However, your original twist was to misconstrue my position that no one has actually investigated Biden's actions as VP vis a vis Ukrainian interests while Hunter was on the Bourisma board as a claim that CNN had actually investigated!

And if you really want to see uninformed statements, you should read this other thread where someone was claiming that judges can infer guilt from the decision of an accused not to call a particular witness!
 

Frankfooter

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Simple questions. Why do you think a Ukrainian oligarch would pay someone with no relevant experience or credentials, who happens to be Joe Biden's son, millions of dollars to sit on the Board of his corrupt gas company? Do you think that this oligarch just "took a flyer" that somehow his investment would be pay off? Did he lose his bet on Joe?
For connections, obviously.

Same reason that countries book rooms at Trump hotels and leave them empty.
So why are you so upset about attempts to influence a vice president yet are totally ok with way more attempts to influence the present president?
 

Dutch Oven

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For connections, obviously.

Same reason that countries book rooms at Trump hotels and leave them empty.
So why are you so upset about attempts to influence a vice president yet are totally ok with way more attempts to influence the present president?
Progress. You provided an incomplete answer. The natural follow up is - what advantages did the oligarch seek from a "connection" to Joe Biden, and did he obtain any of those advantages? To pay so much, he must have been expecting to obtain something pretty valuable.

As to your question, attempts to influence politicians (short of overt bribery) aren't the issue. Lobbyists attempt to influence politicians every day. The issue is whether the attempt to influence actually works - to the detriment of American citizens. That's what any investigation should be focused on.
 

toguy5252

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If you wanted to answer the questions I posed to bver_hunter, you should have posted answers, not a question. That's how a dialogue works.
I have said before if you care to read that i think the only reason hunter got the job is because of who is father is. Nepotism and cashing in on family ties although unseemly is not a crime because if it was the entire Trump family would be behind bars as would Rudy's son who is employed by the WH. Now perhaps tell us why Rudy and Nunes were meeting with the very oligarch accused of corruption.
 

bver_hunter

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No answers to the questions I posed. Maybe you thought the answers wouldn't fit well with what you'd like to say?

And, no, Mueller did not investigate whether Biden helped that Ukrainian oligarch. No one has.
Obviously, you did not read my answer. I said that it was ethically not right, but no wrongdoings were found. Period. Yes, there was a section on the Mueller report about Ukrainian interference or lack of it. Though Trump and is cronies still push that conspiracy theory. Biden's role was investigated by the Ukraine Attorney looking into corruption into the Burisma Company. It had been reported already. Keep on desperately trying to pick at straws.

But obviously you have not answered my question posed back to you about Ivanka and her 16 trademarks that she obtained from the Chinese President. Was it because Ivanka was well qualified especially as she had to shut down all her other brands due to the lack of sales?? Was Kushner qualified for his role in the Whitehouse, or is this plain nepotism and to grow his and Trump's brands??
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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I have said before if you care to read that i think the only reason hunter got the job is because of who is father is. Nepotism and cashing in on family ties although unseemly is not a crime because if it was the entire Trump family would be behind bars as would Rudy's son who is employed by the WH. Now perhaps tell us why Rudy and Nunes were meeting with the very oligarch accused of corruption.
I think you understand the issue better than this. Hunter Biden, as far as I know, did nothing wrong. He wasn't a government official. As far as I know, he didn't kick any money back to his dad. The question remains, what (if anything) did Joe Biden do for the oligarch who invested so much money in Hunter? Or did he just waste his money on a pointless hire? What do you think, did the oligarch gamble and lose, or did he get something he wouldn't have if not for having a Biden on his board?

Maybe Guiliani and Nunes were trying to get the answer to that very question? Maybe the oligarch was promised something, and Joe reneged. If that happened, he might be prepared to talk. We'll find out if there is an investigation. We'll learn nothing more if there isn't.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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Obviously, you did not read my answer. I said that it was ethically not right, but no wrongdoings were found. Period. Yes, there was a section on the Mueller report about Ukrainian interference or lack of it. Though Trump and is cronies still push that conspiracy theory. Biden's role was investigated by the Ukraine Attorney looking into corruption into the Burisma Company. It had been reported already. Keep on desperately trying to pick at straws.

But obviously you have not answered my question posed back to you about Ivanka and her 16 trademarks that she obtained from the Chinese President. Was it because Ivanka was well qualified especially as she had to shut down all her other brands due to the lack of sales?? Was Kushner qualified for his role in the Whitehouse, or is this plain nepotism and to grow his and Trump's brands??
Go back. Re-read my questions. If you answer them, I might answer yours.
 

Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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I think you understand the issue better than this. Hunter Biden, as far as I know, did nothing wrong. He wasn't a government official. As far as I know, he didn't kick any money back to his dad. The question remains, what (if anything) did Joe Biden do for the oligarch who invested so much money in Hunter? Or did he just waste his money on a pointless hire? What do you think, did the oligarch gamble and lose, or did he get something he wouldn't have if not for having a Biden on his board?

Maybe Guiliani and Nunes were trying to get the answer to that very question? Maybe the oligarch was promised something, and Joe reneged. If that happened, he might be prepared to talk. We'll find out if there is an investigation. We'll learn nothing more if there isn't.
No one understands the Bursima/Biden '2 + 2 = keep the conspiracy on life support just by bringing it up' better than you no doubt.

What did Joe gain/not gain? What did the oligarch receive/not receive? Did the oligarch win or lose on his gamble? Kick backs/or kick in the ass conundrum? Quid pro quo or a quo pro quid?

Maybe Guiliani and Nunes were engaged in furthering Russian interests in exchange for $$$'s for Julie and manufactured Russian supplied conspiracy driven dirt on Democrats and Trump's political rival. Maybe Guiliani and Nunes quid pro quo-ed for Trump with Russian oligarchs directly controlled by Putin. Maybe Trump is a Siberian candidate and from the looks of it, he most definitely is.

Maybe, maybe, maybe Bud Plug.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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...........you have not answered my question posed back to you about Ivanka and her 16 trademarks that she obtained from the Chinese President. Was it because Ivanka was well qualified especially as she had to shut down all her other brands due to the lack of sales??
I think you are kitchen sinking.

Quoting Businessinsider:
"The brand was thrust into the limelight when Trump's father, Donald Trump, was elected president in November 2016. Initially, this played in its favor: according to The Wall Street Journal, online sales surged at the company in 2016 and early 2017.

Since then, it has come under increased pressure as anti-Trump supporters call for consumers to boycott the brand and any of the stores that stock it. "


As far as the Chinese granting Ivanka trademarks, I'm certain the Chinese thought it would gain them some favorable influence. This type of favor often unsolicited is customary outside the Western countries. It's hard to make a case that Trump has been soft in his dealings with China.

I know you keep bringing up the Trump hotel in Washington. The family is trying to divest that so they don't have to hear that criticism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-international-hotel-washington-d-c-for-sale-trump-exec-confirms/
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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I think you are kitchen sinking.

Quoting Businessinsider:
"The brand was thrust into the limelight when Trump's father, Donald Trump, was elected president in November 2016. Initially, this played in its favor: according to The Wall Street Journal, online sales surged at the company in 2016 and early 2017.

Since then, it has come under increased pressure as anti-Trump supporters call for consumers to boycott the brand and any of the stores that stock it. "


As far as the Chinese granting Ivanka trademarks, I'm certain the Chinese thought it would gain them some favorable influence. This type of favor often unsolicited is customary outside the Western countries. It's hard to make a case that Trump has been soft in his dealings with China.

I know you keep bringing up the Trump hotel in Washington. The family is trying to divest that so they don't have to hear that criticism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-international-hotel-washington-d-c-for-sale-trump-exec-confirms/
Where did I mention anything about that "Washington Hotel". Just accusations galore from you.

Anyway that link you provided does mention Trump's Conflict of his Business Interests.

Well you as a Pro-Trump supporter should have bought dozens of Ivanka's brand names, and gifted it to the Escorts / Massage Parlour Attendants.

So if it has gained some favourable influence with being gifted these trademarks, why should there be a cause for concern with Hunter's job offers??

After all his role etc was investigated by the new Ukrainian Attorney and there was no wrongdoing!!

Though some ethics watchdogs have criticized Hunter's decision to work for Burisma in light of who his father is, there's no evidence of wrongdoing on his part or the former vice president's.
And there's nothing concrete to support the suggestion Biden pressured Ukraine to take actions to the benefit of his son.
On October 4, it was reported Ukraine's new prosecutor general, Ruslan Ryaboshapka, is reviewing past investigations into the owner of Burisma. This raised the possibility of inquiries being restarted, the Wall Street Journal reported.
Ryaboshapka on October 4 also told Reuters he's not aware of any evidence of wrongdoing on Hunter's part and that he'd not been in touch with any foreign lawyers regarding the case.
Multiple witnesses in the impeachment inquiry have said there's no evidence of illegal activity on the part of the Bidens in relation to Burisma.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukr...ldings-joe-bidens-son-hunter-explained-2019-9
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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No, the new CNN poll is not good news for Donald Trump on impeachment:

A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.

That result is being spun in some corners of the internet as great news for Trump, because that 50% number is unchanged from a CNN poll in mid-October, the conclusion being that the last 10 days of public impeachment hearings have not convinced more of the public that the President needs to go.

Except that we are missing the forest for the trees here: A majority of the country believes the current President of the United States should be impeached and removed from office!
A quick check of history shows how strange that is.
The peak of support for the impeachment and removal of then-President Bill Clinton in 1998 was 29% in CNN polling. That's the highest that number ever went, despite the fact that the House Republican majority did vote to impeach late that year!
Ditto impeachment sentiment for the two presidents between Clinton and Trump. In a 2006 CNN poll, 30% of the public wanted George W. Bush impeached and removed from office; in 2014, 33% said the same of Barack Obama. (Unlike Trump and Clinton, neither Bush nor Obama ever faced any sort of formal impeachment investigation or vote.)
What those historical numbers tell us is that for at least the last two decades, there is roughly 30% of the country that is ready to impeach a president (usually of the party to which they do not belong) at all times.

What makes the Trump number so remarkable, then, is that 20% more of the public is now convinced not only that he should be impeached but that he should be removed from office -- despite the fact that, unlike Clinton, Bush and Obama when those CNN polls were taken, Trump will face voters in a bid for a second term in less than a year's time.
Now, it is fair to say that Democrats -- if you gave them truth serum at the conclusion of last week's public impeachment hearings -- believed they had hit a home run, and that polling would reflect that. That polling so far hasn't changed all that much is worth noting.
So that point is right -- for now. But it's also worth noting that we are in the immediate aftermath of the hearings, and its findings may not have fully seeped into the public consciousness just yet. And more importantly, whether it's 50% or 51% or 55%, it's noteworthy that a majority of the public wants the President gone.
Don't get so close to the painting that you can't see the full picture. And that full picture is this: 50% of the public believes Trump should be impeached and removed -- almost double the amount who have said that about any of his three most recent predecessors, including one who was actually impeached by the House.
Don't lose sight of those facts amid the narrow focus on whether the impeachment numbers have moved since the last poll. That 50% number is both astounding and ahistorical.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/26/politics/trump-cnn-impeachment-poll/index.html
 

onthebottom

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Majority of Americans don’t want Trump Impeached and Removed....

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3651

Yes/
Impeach No DK/NA

Dec 10, 2019 45 51 4
Nov 26, 2019 45 48 6
Oct 23, 2019 48 46 6
Oct 14, 2019 46 48 7
Oct 08, 2019 45 49 6
Sep 30, 2019 47 47 6
Sep 25, 2019 37 57 6
 

jcpro

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Trump even flipped Iowa against ALL Democratic candidates. I guess that the American people as not as dumb as the Democrats think.
 

onthebottom

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Trump even flipped Iowa against ALL Democratic candidates. I guess that the American people as not as dumb as the Democrats think.
And Wisconsin, which was one of the 6 key swing states....
 
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