Toronto Escorts

'You people': Don Cherry under fire for claiming new immigrants don't wear poppies

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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It's a free country with freedom of expression, but that freedom means people who think that our military deserve recognition will think, and can tell you, that you are wrong. It's in the nature of democracies that some people who don't support the institutions and values that are actually necessary to its continuation will nevertheless live in that democracy and benefit from it. There will always be free riders in our society. That's acceptable, because democracies can tolerate, survive and overcome dissent. All you need is a majority who share the same values to keep things going. Go ahead and express that you don't recognize the sacrifice of the military. Just don't be shocked and hurt when people publicly criticize your decision.
Nah, no Canadian has ever told me I am wrong for not wearing a red marker.

I do not buy into the necessity of sending young Canadians to Afghanistan to get maimed and killed in order to "defend our freedom".

You can still enlist in the American mercenary forces if you feel that strongly about defending our freedoms. But maybe you do not feel that strongly.

Or you could create a militant force that will patrol Toronto and accost anybody not wearing your red marker.

Don't just post on Terb.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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Nah, no Canadian has ever told me I am wrong for not wearing a red marker.

I do not buy into the necessity of sending young Canadians to Afghanistan to get maimed and killed in order to "defend our freedom".

You can still enlist in the American mercenary forces if you feel that strongly about defending our freedoms. But maybe you do not feel that strongly.
I'm a Canadian, and in my opinion you are wrong. Trust me, I won't be the last to say that to you (and I'm probably not the first).

You can't seriously refuse to recognize the sacrifices of soldiers who fought in WW2 because you disagreed with military involvement in Afghanistan. Do you refuse to contribute to any charities because some people have used charities to defraud people? You should re-evaluate your reasoning. Disagreeing with foreign policy decisions is not the same thing as whether you should honour those who did what their country asked of them.

I would no longer make a useful soldier. Maybe I never would have. But that's MORE reason to respect those who have served their country, not LESS.
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
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Oblivion
I’m a big fan of Jagmeet Singh but he’s way off the mark with the reference to his great grandfather. It was for the British Army, not the Canadian Army. The UK has a significant Remembrance Day ceremony where it’s soldiers are recognized. So does the US. India has Armistice Day. Each recognizes the fighting men and women of that country.

Cherry did not accuse anyone of not fighting or being cowards. I think he was wrong but he said that Canadian soldiers were not being recognized for their sacrifice. He was referring to Canadian soldiers on our Remembrance Day.
Singh is not so far off the mark because at that time Canada was a British Colony as was India and the "Canadian soldiers" were for the most part conscripted by the Crown. There was no "Canada" back then and the soldiers were fighting for the British Crown whether it was conscripts from India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, Jamaica or Canada to name a few.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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I'm a Canadian, and in my opinion you are wrong. Trust me, I won't be the last to say that to you (and I'm probably not the first).

You can't seriously refuse to recognize the sacrifices of soldiers who fought in WW2 because you disagreed with military involvement in Afghanistan. Do you refuse to contribute to charities because some people have used charities to defraud people? You should re-evaluate your reasoning. Disagreeing with foreign policy decisions is not the same thing as whether you should honour those who did what their country asked of them.

I would no longer make a useful soldier. Maybe I never would have. But that's MORE reason to respect those who have served their country, not LESS.
I meant a Canadian in flesh and blood, not a virtual persona on Terb. Nobody has ever mentioned anything to me about not wearing a red poppy, and I do not expect anybody will.

I follow all rules and regulations, and pay my tax to support soldiers and veterans as determined by Parliament and the Government, even if I am against military adventures, (not peacekeeping duties set by UN).

I find that you cannot decide if you believe in Free speech and expressions or not. If you did believe in free expressions, you would respect anyone's decision to wear or not wear a poppy.

To be a poppy vigilante that accosts people that does not wear one, seems to be contrary to the often claimed "fight to keep our freedoms". I think without any disrespect that your campaign to shame people to wear a poppy is a greater threat to "our Freedoms" that Afghanistan ever was.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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What do you base your statement on? Did you do a survey as to who watches coach's corner or is that just your opinion? Do you have any facts to back up your claim?

Strombo was hired to reach a younger demographic. Here's some proof.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...iewers-with-hockey-broadcast/article23274709/

Here's another one if you go to the Roger's takeover section and go down a few paragraphs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Night_in_Canada

I won't ask you to ban yourself, just admit your wrong.
No you were wrong. You kept referencing Stefanoupoulos. This is the first time you mentioned Strombo. I won't ask you to ban yourself, just admit you were wrong.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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I meant a Canadian in flesh and blood, not a virtual persona on Terb. Nobody has ever mentioned anything to me about not wearing a red poppy, and I do not expect anybody will.

I follow all rules and regulations, and pay my tax to support soldiers and veterans as determined by Parliament and the Government, even if I am against military adventures, (not peacekeeping duties set by UN).

I find that you cannot decide if you believe in Free speech and expressions or not. If you did believe in free expressions, you would respect anyone's decision to wear or not wear a poppy.

To be a poppy vigilante that accosts people that does not wear one, seems to be contrary to the often claimed "fight to keep our freedoms". I think without any disrespect that your campaign to shame people to wear a poppy is a greater threat to "our Freedoms" that Afghanistan ever was.
You don't have a choice whether to pay taxes. You do have a choice whether to wear a poppy. Are you saying you will only do the right thing when forced? I hope not.

You fundamentally misunderstand free speech. You have it confused with the concept of freedom of choice. You can choose not to wear a poppy. Others can speak their mind about your choice. No one has the "freedom" to do whatever they want and never have to hear criticism about their actions. What you do in response to the criticism is up to you, and what people think of how you respond is up to them.

Have you noticed that young children usually react to criticism by crying? That's because they perceive criticism to be an attack on their self worth, instead of just correction of their behaviour. It sounds like you hope never to hear what other people think of your choices. Surely you are capable of withstanding disagreement with your choices? Do you think that is what motivated the backlash against Cherry - people who know they aren't doing the right thing, but just can't stand to hear criticism?

Shame only works on those who can feel shame. If people, when confronted about not supporting the military, feel ashamed, it's because they are acknowledging to themselves that they weren't doing the right thing. People who think they are in the right are not "shamed" into anything.

I don't expect to change your mind about wearing poppies, but perhaps you will have a better idea of the thoughts of others who observe what you do.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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You don't have a choice whether to pay taxes. You do have a choice whether to wear a poppy. Are you saying you will only do the right thing when forced? I hope not.

You fundamentally misunderstand free speech. You have it confused with the concept of freedom of choice. You can choose not to wear a poppy. Others can speak their mind about your choice. No one has the "freedom" to do whatever they want and never have to hear criticism about their actions. What you do in response to the criticism is up to you, and what people think of how you respond is up to them.

Have you noticed that young children usually react to criticism by crying? That's because they perceive criticism to be an attack on their self worth, instead of just correction of their behaviour. It sounds like you hope never to hear what other people think of your choices. Surely you are capable of withstanding disagreement with your choices? Do you think that is what motivated the backlash against Cherry - people who know they aren't doing the right thing, but just can't stand to hear criticism?

Shame only works on those who can feel shame. If people, when confronted about not supporting the military, feel ashamed, it's because they are acknowledging to themselves that they weren't doing the right thing. People who think they are in the right are not "shamed" into anything.

I don't expect to change your mind about wearing poppies, but perhaps you will have a better idea of the thoughts of others who observe what you do.
I think we have to agree to disagree.

You are willing to give people freedom of expression, but NOT give them the right to decide for themselves what they believe is right or wrong.

Who appointed you to be the supreme arbitrator on what is right or wrong? Did the Good Lord or the Spirit of the Universe tell you personally that it is wrong not to support our military?

People may have many reasons that you do not know for not wearing a poppy (I have a personal one I do not want to share on Terb) and I think you should rethink your commitment to freedom of expression.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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I realized years ago that poppy pins were very easily bent back into a V with your fingers and haven't lost a one since. Of course the people who don't care enough about their fallen ones to buy another would be among Don's "you people", and in your non-statistician observation.

Certainly you don't have to be a statistician to see or not see whatever you choose to. But if you want to talk to, or persuade anyone but those already of your opinion, you need facts. Facts about counting people are called statistics. My own observation is the opposite of yours, I see more poppies these days than I remember seeing in years past. Only the Legion would know for sure, and all they have said publicly is that sales are about 21,000,000, the same as previous years, enough for 2 out of 3 Canadians.
Well the point is to donate and get a new poppy every year. But if you have found a clever way to keep yours for years congratulations on saving a few bucks. But I digress.

And if you are going to reference statistics to make your point you can at least be accurate. 21,000,000 poppies are not sold. 21,000,000 are distributed.
Which may explain why there are so many left in the boxes in places that offer them.
 

Knuckle Ball

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Oct 15, 2017
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You don't need any law other than free speech. I believe that new Canadians will wear poppies and support Canadian veterans once the significance of doing so is brought to their attention. I think new Canadians do appreciate what Canada has to offer them, and can understand what the Canadian military has done to ensure it. That's the message Cherry delivered. Unfortunately, there are few other public voices doing so. However, a few prominent voices will be enough.

It would be interesting if our pathetic media, instead of going around asking people if their feelings were hurt, would ask instead whether people intend to wear a poppy next year. That would be a measure of the effectiveness of what Cherry had to say.

Your proposed "forced conformity" is a tool of totalitarian governments. Free societies prefer free speech.
I agree with you about this. I think that most new immigrants who don’t wear poppies simply don’t understand what they are and why they are important, probably because no one has ever explained it to them. I don’t think it’s the case that new immigrants are being willfully disrespectful to Canada’s fallen soldiers.

That being said, I don’t see many people born here wearing poppies these days either. If everyone was wearing poppies then new immigrants would start to ask about them, learn about them, and wear them themselves. Criticizing new immigrants for something that none of the rest of us do either seems quite unfair.
 

Charlemagne

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Jul 19, 2017
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basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Don't worry basket, pretty soon climate deniers like me will be in jail. And than I guess you will have utopia. Im surprised you know me so well. I wish I knew you well enough to put some sort of label on you, OH WAIT I WOULDNT DO THAT. You can tell me I'm wrong but don't flippantly throw that word around, its like blaming Trump for everything, it wears thin after a while. You have a good day sir
Whatever you need to tell yourself to pretend you are somehow the victim here.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Sure there's evidence that Canadians, and in particular new Canadians, are wearing a decreasing number of poppies. ...
I guess you live in a different part of town than me.

p.s. Do you actually ask people if they are immigrants or do you just assume all non-white people are?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I guess it would be appropriate to hold people to account for the facts they cite that are wrong. Is anyone able to prove Cherry wrong? My own personal observations are the same as his.
You seriously misunderstand how logic works. To quote one of fuji's fave's can you prove you're not a paedophile?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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So I'm wrong about Cherry being popular with Canadians and Hockey fans? ....
I would expect that in the past 20 years, many people enjoyed watching Cherry in the same way they enjoy watching Jersey Shore. Finding someone entertaining doesn't equate with respecting or even agreeing with the person. I love watching things like Ancient Aliens just so I can laugh at how stupid it is.
 

mellowjello

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Jan 11, 2017
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I don't believe that Canada does enough to educate, assimilate and inspire most newcomers. Can you blame new immigrants and refugees for not understanding some of our history, cultural beliefs and traditions? How would they magically know? And this is not just about the poppy.
Like joining a club or fraternity of some kind, you need to educate prospective members so that they understand everything from traditions to rules.
What the fuck cloud are you climbing down from?
The vast majority of newcomers are just average Joe Blows struggling to find work, pay rent, feed their kids,
learn the language, trying to figure out if they made the right move leaving everyone they know, their families,
their culture.
Obviously you don't come from an immigrant family, and if you do, you should fuckin know better.
 

Charlemagne

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2017
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I don't believe that Canada does enough to educate, assimilate and inspire most newcomers. Can you blame new immigrants and refugees for not understanding some of our history, cultural beliefs and traditions? How would they magically know? And this is not just about the poppy.
Like joining a club or fraternity of some kind, you need to educate prospective members so that they understand everything from traditions to rules.

There's more to being a Canadian than memorizing a few historical dates and singing the anthem and then passing a test to obtain citizenship.

In all fairness, to pass the citizenship tests, the government does make information about history and many other things available in the study guide, and there is specific info about the poppy and the significance of Remembrance Day. I remember this being taught in school when I was a kid, not sure if they still do? But you don't have to be a statistician to see that less people wear the poppy these days. Why? Not sure. Maybe they fall off too easily and people end up not replacing them? Maybe it's a generational thing?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/discover-canada/read-online/canadas-history.html
Actually new Canadians are more likely to know our history as opposed to those born here, as they are required to do a citizenship test. This test requires them to study.

There was a some study that came out years ago stating that most Canadians would fail a citizenship, especially those who were born, raised, and educated here. Due to right wingers being mess educated, I'm pretty sure they would mostly fail this test. I'd love too see the results of the right wing terbites, that's for sure.

People like you seem to want POC and New Canadians to totally adopt White European Culture, which is not native to North America might I remind you. So let me tell that that's not happening, right wingers have totally lost the culture war. When it comes to things being "cool," you'll never win.
 

wigglee

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Oct 13, 2010
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I guess you didn't watch coach's corner very often, most of the time he talked about hockey, rarely did he stray from it. Yes he did insult people but that was very rare. He was on the air a long time, if all he did was insult people he would have been gone long ago.
I watch it lots..... he managed to insult Quebecers, Europeans, gays , liberals and peaceniks all in the context of his hockey commentary. He didn't need to stray from hockey to express his divisive rhetoric.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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I guess someone heard his dog whistle loud and clear

Faith J Goldy

@FaithGoldy

Don Cherry should leave hockey and run for Conservative leader, don’t @ me. #DraftDon

8:52 AM · Nov 11, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

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https://mobile.twitter.com/faithgoldy/status/1193889331020255235

Faith J Goldy

@FaithGoldy

DON CHERRY DID NOTHING WRONG

3:38 PM · Nov 11, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

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https://mobile.twitter.com/faithgoldy/status/1193991355816697858
Don interviewed with The Rebel - Faith's alma mata - shortly after being fired.

It's almost as if he was friendly with those folks secretly all along and as if he's been a covert arch racist for years, isn't it?

And all that gushing support for Doug Ford...
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts