Cost of operation for an Indy Ma or Hybrid

Alison_xox · Nov 7, 2019

I’ve read the comments on Terb about the increase of the rates in Ottawa and I decided to take a minute to explain how much it cost for an independent.
Of course it is based on my own costs.
Everything is relative , but I have a very upscale condo. Offers all what my clients would need in order to take a shower and feel fresh before and after our session so Soap, Shampoo, listerine, deodorant , body cream ect..
I use unscented and high quality oil for my massage.
I also always use freshly washed and dried towels that are fluffy so in order to offer that , I need to have a LOT of towels and make a lot of laundry everyday. (The clients that knows me can vouch for the fact that it’s always a load in process on my laundry room and that my towel closet is very full.) No flipping the towels to save time or money at my incall.
I am also a clean freak so I need cleaning supplies to keep it tidy.
Of course advertisement is a must if I want to reach my clientele so I post everyday on different platforms.

I tried to summarize the cost of operation and this is what it looks..

Rent 1640
Electricity 100
Internet / phone 140
Assurances 45
Soap , loundry soap , oil , cleaning product, personal product for clients ect 100
Towels , sheets 100
Furniture , decorations ect (You pay it once so I won’t include it)
Professional photoshoot (Can vary so I won’t include it )

Publicity
Leolist 286,10 /month 2x day for 30days
In massage section , escort is more
Discreetlist 10/month
Website 50/month

Gaz or transportation : Unstable so I won’t include it.

2471,10 minimum
So 85$ minimum /day for 30days
So it is a little more than 1 client room fees /day if you work everyday.

If you work like me 20days/month
It cost 124 /day just to operate so I would need two clients room fees in oder to cover my operation cost.

This doesn’t include photoshoots , my massage table that cost me more than 3000$ because they’re custom made , hardwood , memory foam mattresses and oversized.
Doesn’t include my transportation or the furniture that costs a fortune.
It doesn’t include the time I invest in my business or the 2 years training in massage school.

It doesn’t include the time I put in my business everyday advertising, reading on boards , responding to pms , emails and texts.
It doesn’t include the money I invest in toys , lingerie, nails , hair , makeup.

Do I think charging more than 80$ Room fees worth it ?
No
Do I think I deserve the 180/h ?
Absolutely !!
Would I low my rates in order to get more clients ?
Absolutely not !
In my opinion , you pay for what you get and at 180/h you already get a pretty good deal.

Kisses
Ali

asuran · Nov 7, 2019

Working down to the margin and getting rid of the middle man/woman.

Booking team, support system, security.
Definitely something that is needed, especially when starting out. Once you get acclimated with enough experience than you can cut out what you don't need but it takes time.

Taraparker · Nov 7, 2019

Thank you for this Alison!

Most people don’t realize that there’s a lot of overhead to maintain this business not to mention the hours upon hours of labour outside of the sessions. It’s also a highly stigmatized industry & the risks that we face, with that comes with a cost.

RockNRollMachin · Nov 7, 2019

Alison_xox said:
I’ve read the comments on Terb about the increase of the rates in Ottawa and I decided to take a minute to explain how much it cost for an independent.
Of course it is based on my own costs.
Everything is relative , but I have a very upscale condo. Offers all what my clients would need in order to take a shower and feel fresh before and after our session so Soap, Shampoo, listerine, deodorant , body cream ect..
I use unscented and high quality oil for my massage.
I also always use freshly washed and dried towels that are fluffy so in order to offer that , I need to have a LOT of towels and make a lot of laundry everyday. (The clients that knows me can vouch for the fact that it’s always a load in process on my laundry room and that my towel closet is very full.) No flipping the towels to save time or money at my incall.
I am also a clean freak so I need cleaning supplies to keep it tidy.
Of course advertisement is a must if I want to reach my clientele so I post everyday on different platforms.

I tried to summarize the cost of operation and this is what it looks..

Rent 1640
Electricity 100
Internet / phone 140
Assurances 45
Soap , loundry soap , oil , cleaning product, personal product for clients ect 100
Towels , sheets 100
Furniture , decorations ect (You pay it once so I won’t include it)
Professional photoshoot (Can vary so I won’t include it )

Publicity
Leolist 286,10 /month 2x day for 30days
In massage section , escort is more
Discreetlist 10/month
Website 50/month

Gaz or transportation : Unstable so I won’t include it.

2471,10 minimum
So 85$ minimum /day for 30days
So it is a little more than 1 client room fees /day if you work everyday.

If you work like me 20days/month
It cost 124 /day just to operate so I would need two clients room fees in oder to cover my operation cost.

This doesn’t include photoshoots , my massage table that cost me more than 3000$ because they’re custom made , hardwood , memory foam mattresses and oversized.
Doesn’t include my transportation or the furniture that costs a fortune.
It doesn’t include the time I invest in my business or the 2 years training in massage school.

It doesn’t include the time I put in my business everyday advertising, reading on boards , responding to pms , emails and texts.
It doesn’t include the money I invest in toys , lingerie, nails , hair , makeup.

Do I think charging more than 80$ Room fees worth it ?
No
Do I think I deserve the 180/h ?
Absolutely !!
Would I low my rates in order to get more clients ?
Absolutely not !
In my opinion , you pay for what you get and at 180/h you already get a pretty good deal.

Kisses
Ali

Thanks for the insight. I could hardly believe you if you told us straight off the bat that it costs you 124$/working day to operate. But you got the numbers to back it up. Props to you for making your business works.

If anything, you can decide to charge whatever you feel like your time and efforts are worth. The market will adjust itself based on the quality of your services and the pricing.

Cheers !

Nesbot · Nov 7, 2019

What really strikes me about this breakdown is that in addition to the monetary cost and overhead there is still so much more. A considerable amount of cleaning for one. Also, the emotional and physical toll that this job requires. It really cannot be easy. I’m a lazy fat slob, so I find these ladies inspiring.

william9437 · Nov 7, 2019

I'd have a big smile on my face if that was my overhead

Meaning · Nov 7, 2019

william9437 said:
I'd have a big smile on my face if that was my overhead

Here a lady has come on to share financial insights on industry operations - the very least you can do is show respect. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it, especially if it adds zero value to the thread.

MikeO · Nov 8, 2019

Very well stated, Alison. In addition, while this is a 'cash' industry, at least some of the wiser ladies complete annual tax returns to avoid problems that can arise with CRA should they fail to do so. A couple of them have told me they declare income as a self-employed masseuse. Some others have a 'sideline' or part time job for which they are paid as employees, producing a T4 for them. Some are students who also have to pay tuition. I suspect that some of their expenses can we written off as deductions. However, it's likely that these ladies end up paying some income tax.

Alison_xox · Nov 8, 2019

MikeO said:
Very well stated, Alison. In addition, while this is a 'cash' industry, at least some of the wiser ladies complete annual tax returns to avoid problems that can arise with CRA should they fail to do so. A couple of them have told me they declare income as a self-employed masseuse. Some others have a 'sideline' or part time job for which they are paid as employees, producing a T4 for them. Some are students who also have to pay tuition. I suspect that some of their expenses can we written off as deductions. However, it's likely that these ladies end up paying some income tax.

Very true.
After 3years , a small company will usually start paying taxes.
It is my case. Being a provider is being self employed and we do need to declare something in order to built our credit and to be able to have great history with banks.
What I did is I created a company and my company pay taxes every year.
I didn’t include my accountant or my taxes in the mix because it would of been too complicated for people to understand , but yes it is a part of my operation cost as well.

A lot of people think that it is sooo easy and simple to be a provider. You make a lot of money and put it in your pocket , but it is so not the way it works if you are doing it seriously and you love your job enough to make it your main income.

It is a business and like every other business, it needs a lot of tlc.

I like what I am doing and I would like to be able to do it for a couple of years so I am doing it right.

Kisses
Ali

mmad · Nov 8, 2019

Nice breakdown Ali.
Although not on topic, I believe that similar base costs apply to a commercial setup or a "members" club. Add the overhead of a manager/receptionist and the write-off on fit-up costs, which, in most cases, is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Constructing 5 or 6 nice rooms with over-sized showers doesn't come cheaply. Add the cost of commercial rent vs an apartment or condo and it's easy to see that an $80 house is not unreasonable for them either.

Alison_xox · Nov 8, 2019

mmad said:
Nice breakdown Ali.
Although not on topic, I believe that similar base costs apply to a commercial setup or a "members" club. Add the overhead of a manager/receptionist and the write-off on fit-up costs, which, in most cases, is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Constructing 5 or 6 nice rooms with over-sized showers doesn't come cheaply. Add the cost of commercial rent vs an apartment or condo and it's easy to see that an $80 house is not unreasonable for them either.

I am happy you pointed it out.
I’ve worked at Paradise spa for many years before I decided to go indy and I know for a fact that the owners are investing A LOT of money into those two sister locations (PS and AT)
The material to built , the incredible amount of towels, sheets , face cloth , cleaning product ect ..
They always had a couple of new massage tables ready to replace the broken ones , the advertisement fees for a Spa is very expensive comparatively to an independent. They have to pay for their receptionists (More than one because nobody can work 14h/day 7day/week) , the rent is commercial so very expensive. The licenses , the permits for construction and operation. The enormous amount of time the owners spent on meetings with the girls , doing schedules , fixing issues.
The lawyers (because let’s be real here , they are in a very taboo industry and they will always have to struggle with people trying to shut them down) , website , Taxes , atm machines , accounting and soo much more.

I remember the owner answering me in the middle of the night because I had to cancel a shift for a family emergency. When she texted me back I asked her how come she doesn’t sleep and she told me : Ali , I will sleep when I am done with the schedule , advertising and answering to clients. I am used to it. I own two spas

The woman was ALWAYS working. She’s a machine.

Now do you think she deserve her 80$ room fees ?
I do !

One time , I was complaining about the vacuum there so the owner left and came back with a brand new vacuum. Who does that ? Someone that cares about her spa and her girls.
Try complaining about something in a spa and let’s see if they’ll fix it right away. Good luck with that ..

Don’t get me wrong here , I don’t think a spa that doesn’t take care of their locations and that doesn’t take the time to offer a clean , safe and upscale environment to their girls should increase their rates. Why would you charge more if you can’t offer to host your clients to a descent location ? We are talking about room fees here so obviously if you increase your rate you MUST offer something upscale. The spas that are offering a room without shower , without clean sheet or towels and that are not maintaining a certain lever of class should low their room fees, but the ones that are offering you guys an upscale room should totally be free to charge you the 80/h.

Back when I was at Paradise , the only work I had to do was post one time/shift on the rosie board and focus on my sessions. When I was done with my shift I was coming home with my head completely free.
Now that I have to do everything she was doing for me , I get it ..
This is a lot and it’s not everyone that can handle the stress and responsibilities that comes with owning a business.
I got me to take care of. She got around 50 girls.
She’s my hero ...

Thanks Ang xx

Not Jerry Garci · Nov 8, 2019

This is a champion thread.

Kawailuvr · Nov 9, 2019

Every business has costs , no matter what career you are in
If you work the trades you buy tools and work clothes for the elements
If you work in the office world you need business attire and computer
You have to spend money to make money that’s life suck it up buttercup
The thing is with sexy workers they are always Bitchin about over head that’s life get over it move on make a piss pot full of money and don’t blow it on purses , clothes , trips and showing off and you will retire very comfortable

Antonanon · Nov 9, 2019

Kawailuvr said:
Every business has costs , no matter what career you are in
If you work the trades you buy tools and work clothes for the elements
If you work in the office world you need business attire and computer
You have to spend money to make money that’s life suck it up buttercup
The thing is with sexy workers they are always Bitchin about over head that’s life get over it move on make a piss pot full of money and don’t blow it on purses , clothes , trips and showing off and you will retire very comfortable

In this thread I see the very logical and realistic perspective of Ali, and through Kawailuvr I also see the image projected by some providers online.

We all want some rewards for our hard work and Ali certainly deserves that for her level headed and mature approach to business but some of these girls seem to just spend and spend and spend (and like to show it off). If you blow every cent on shoes and purses, or push your clients to increase their compensation or give you gifts or take you shopping ...it looks bad on you and makes it obvious you’re on an unsustainable path.

Here’s to smart business acumen!

mmad · Nov 9, 2019

Thanks Ali, you're a class act.

Not Jerry Garci · Nov 9, 2019

"The thing is with sexy workers they are always Bitchin about over head that’s life get over it move on make a piss pot full of money and don’t blow it on purses , clothes , trips and showing off and you will retire very comfortable"

Do you not see the irony in all your statements prior to that opinion?

OttawaDude6969 · Nov 10, 2019

Thank you for sharing Ali.

Try reducing your total cost especially rent cost by sharing with another MA. Your rent takes a big chunk of your expense. Sharing your incall with Kimora should reduce your rent from $1640 to $820. Your daily cost is now at $97 instead of $124.

Also if you are working full time as sw and only able to get 2 clients per day then imho, time to get a regular job. Too much hassles and risks to earn $267/day:

$360 - $97 = $267 net pay per day for min 2 clients.

But with $267 x 20 days. The monthly net take home is $5,740.

Better yet if you are not aware, Adele takes only $40 per hour. Instead being independent, you can rent a room from her. Your take home per client is now $140 (or $280 for 2 clients) without all additional works.

itd131 · Nov 10, 2019

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

If my rough math is correct, an indie MA seeing four clients per day, 15-20 days per month, would take home around 40K-50K/year more than an MA working in a spa with the same number of clients. Never really thought about this before but it might explain why there seems to be a trend of ladies going indie. I know the spas provide valuable services but I can also see how that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

b1qqcr95 · Nov 10, 2019

Thanks Alison, much respect. It's important for hobbyists to be reminded of how hard you girls work. You earn every dollar (and should have more).

p.s. we're due for another session soon!

itd131 · Nov 12, 2019

Thanks for sharing your info Charlotte.

Cost of operation for an Indy Ma or Hybrid

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