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Thread: Keystone Pipeline Leaks 383,000 Gallons of Oil in North Dakota

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    Keystone Pipeline Leaks 383,000 Gallons of Oil in North Dakota

    Keystone Pipeline Leaks 383,000 Gallons of Oil in North Dakota

    The spill in the northeastern part of the state, which occurred along a different stretch than the controversial XL pipeline addition, coated an estimated half-acre of wetland, officials said.

    By Niraj Chokshi

    Oct. 31, 2019
    Updated 12:55 p.m. ET

    The Keystone pipeline system, an addition to which has been the subject of environmental protests for years, leaked about 383,000 gallons of crude oil in North Dakota, covering an estimated half-acre of wetland, state environmental regulators said.

    The spill, which has been contained, occurred in a low-gradient drainage area near the small town of Edinburg in northeast North Dakota, less than 50 miles from the Canadian border, according to Karl Rockeman, the director of the state Department of Environmental Quality’s division of water quality.

    “It is one of the larger spills in the state,” he said in an email on Thursday.

    There are no residences near the site and the wetland is not a source of drinking water, he said. State regulators and cleanup equipment are on site, but Mr. Rockeman could not say whether cleanup had begun.

    The leak occurred along a stretch of the existing Keystone pipeline system, not the 1,179-mile-long addition to that system known as the Keystone XL pipeline, he said. Keystone XL has been the subject of environmental protests for years. President Barack Obama denied it a permit in 2015, but just days after taking office President Trump cleared a path for its operator, TC Energy, formerly known as TransCanada, to proceed.

    Catherine Collentine, an associate director with the Sierra Club, which opposes the Keystone XL addition, said in a statement that this week’s leak is further proof that such spills are inevitable.

    “We don’t yet know the extent of the damage from this latest tar sands spill, but what we do know is that this is not the first time this pipeline has spilled toxic tar sands, and it won’t be the last,” she said. “We’ve always said it’s not a question of whether a pipeline will spill, but when, and once again TC Energy has made our case for us.”

    In a statement, TC Energy said the pipeline was shut down after the spill was detected at about 9:20 p.m. local time on Tuesday. The cause of the spill will not be known, the statement said, until an internal investigation is complete and the pipeline is analyzed by federal officials.

    “We are establishing air quality, water and wildlife monitoring and will continue monitoring throughout the response,” the statement said.

    In 2017, a spill along the Keystone pipeline system coated a stretch of grassland in South Dakota with more than 407,000 gallons of leaked Canadian crude oil, which was nearly twice as much as originally estimated, according to the company. The pipeline also leaked about 16,000 gallons each in spills in 2011 in North Dakota and in 2016 in South Dakota.

    The original Keystone pipeline system began operation in 2010 and carries crude oil from Alberta, Canada, south to Texas. The system contains 2,687 miles of pipeline.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/keystone-pipeline-leak.html

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    Pipelines are the safest way to transport oil. Rail on the other hand....

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42548824

    If you’ve ever been to ND, you just how small half an acre is.


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    Reasons to move to a much cleaner technology. Not so long ago there was a 320,000 litres of oil spilled in Alberta:

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/320-00...lity-1.4512582

    They say that 99% of that spillage has been recovered. But even if it is true, the 1% that was not recovered, is a deep cause for concern!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    Reasons to move to a much cleaner technology. Not so long ago there was a 320,000 litres of oil spilled in Alberta:

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/320-00...lity-1.4512582

    They say that 99% of that spillage has been recovered. But even if it is true, the 1% that was not recovered, is a deep cause for concern!!
    Yes, but given the resistance to nuclear, the low productivity of wind / solar (20%) and lack of scalable storage, fossil fuels are here to stay. It’s best to transport them in the safest way possible.


    At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy, is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper - no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    Reasons to move to a much cleaner technology. Not so long ago there was a 320,000 litres of oil spilled in Alberta:

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/320-00...lity-1.4512582

    They say that 99% of that spillage has been recovered. But even if it is true, the 1% that was not recovered, is a deep cause for concern!!
    Why is 1% deep cause for concern?

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    Quote Originally Posted by onthebottom View Post
    Yes, but given the resistance to nuclear, the low productivity of wind / solar (20%) and lack of scalable storage, fossil fuels are here to stay. It’s best to transport them in the safest way possible.
    We are talking about some of the biggest polluters. Cars, Trucks, especially Diesel Trucks. That is why it important to take the stance that companies like Volvo are doing. They are only going to manufacture Electric Vehicles. Coal burning power stations are thankfully being phased out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WyattEarp View Post
    Why is 1% deep cause for concern?
    If you realize what that could do to the contamination of the drinking water sources etc, then it is definitely a cause for concern. Even the surrounding soil can eventually be contaminated with the toxins present in bitumen oils, that can eventually impact the wildlife and even the neighbouring farms!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    We are talking about some of the biggest polluters. Cars, Trucks, especially Diesel Trucks. That is why it important to take the stance that companies like Volvo are doing. They are only going to manufacture Electric Vehicles. Coal burning power stations are thankfully being phased out.
    Your not understanding the challenges. I can’t tell if it’s ignorance or stubborn attachment to talking points.

    A clean economy is an electric economy.

    For production of electricity you have:
    Coal - plentiful but dirty
    Gas - plentiful and cleaner
    Nuclear - plentiful with 0 emissions

    For renewables you have
    Solar - regional, 20% productive, needs one of the above methods for the 80%
    Wind - same as solar
    Hydro - regional and dependable

    There is no renewable option.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlemagne View Post
    Nope, not in my lifetime (and I’m buying an EV and putting solar panels on my house)

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=41433


    At the bottom of all the tributes paid to democracy, is the little man, walking into the little booth, with a little pencil, making a little cross on a little bit of paper - no amount of rhetoric or voluminous discussion can possibly diminish the overwhelming importance of the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onthebottom View Post
    Your not understanding the challenges. I can’t tell if it’s ignorance or stubborn attachment to talking points.

    A clean economy is an electric economy.

    For production of electricity you have:
    Coal - plentiful but dirty
    Gas - plentiful and cleaner
    Nuclear - plentiful with 0 emissions

    For renewables you have
    Solar - regional, 20% productive, needs one of the above methods for the 80%
    Wind - same as solar
    Hydro - regional and dependable

    There is no renewable option.
    You obviously are the one that does not understand about pollution in general. Now are you saying that the end point of this oil is just for production of electricity?? I am referring to fuel for vehicles etc. that are the biggest polluters as they use the largest portion of the oil that is being transported!!

    We all know that in Ontario, Coal is no longer used for electricity and has been phased out. Of course fossil fuels such as Natural Gas will be still be around in the not too distant future. Natural gas represents just 11% of the Electricity that is derived from it. The highest proportion is still from Nuclear Energy at 57% and the rest is Hydroelectricity. This is much "cleaner" than your above assessment of "Clean Energy". Now you can possible comprehend it!!


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    Ahh beaver hunter you so smart. Tell me something. If I was to tell you that the only real solution to eliminating fossil fuels is to shift efforts to a Hydrogen driven society. Where would all that hydrogen come from?

    At the same time we all know it impossible to not extract oil and live in a society that resembles the one we all know. Non more gasoline or diesel for traveling on a government roadway. We still need oil and there by products for everyday life. So if we simply outlaw drilling than we face thousands of obstacles.

    Smart people who want to solve problems are trying to figure out how to use that poison, NATURAL GAS to justify drilling for oil all the while using and converting the natural gas into hydrogen.

    Instead some people on threads like this think its better for the government to force you to buy solar panels from China all the while giving GIANT tax breaks to Korean windmill companies. How did that little capitalist governmental experiment work out. Don't you dare compare the tax breaks companies like GM got before they moved out. GM created generations of good jobs and offshoot companies out the ying yang, ABSOLUTE MONEY WELL SPENT, real wealth. Korean windmill company, NOTHIN BUT FUCKIN CRICKETS. Way to go Dalton, you are a really smart guy.

    Hows the marijuana roll out going for the government. How much money are they leaving on the table to the black market. How many trees are being slaughtered and how many glaciers are melting because of there strict packaging requirements, not to mention all of the unneeded shipping going on with said packaging and purchase limits. Paper and packaging are one of the biggest polluters out there.

    Let business do what they do best, less government is better government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drawcoat View Post
    Ahh beaver hunter you so smart. Tell me something. If I was to tell you that the only real solution to eliminating fossil fuels is to shift efforts to a Hydrogen driven society. Where would all that hydrogen come from?

    At the same time we all know it impossible to not extract oil and live in a society that resembles the one we all know. Non more gasoline or diesel for traveling on a government roadway. We still need oil and there by products for everyday life. So if we simply outlaw drilling than we face thousands of obstacles.

    Smart people who want to solve problems are trying to figure out how to use that poison, NATURAL GAS to justify drilling for oil all the while using and converting the natural gas into hydrogen.

    Instead some people on threads like this think its better for the government to force you to buy solar panels from China all the while giving GIANT tax breaks to Korean windmill companies. How did that little capitalist governmental experiment work out. Don't you dare compare the tax breaks companies like GM got before they moved out. GM created generations of good jobs and offshoot companies out the ying yang, ABSOLUTE MONEY WELL SPENT, real wealth. Korean windmill company, NOTHIN BUT FUCKIN CRICKETS. Way to go Dalton, you are a really smart guy.

    Hows the marijuana roll out going for the government. How much money are they leaving on the table to the black market. How many trees are being slaughtered and how many glaciers are melting because of there strict packaging requirements, not to mention all of the unneeded shipping going on with said packaging and purchase limits. Paper and packaging are one of the biggest polluters out there.

    Let business do what they do best, less government is better government.
    Hey Drawcoat. First explain this Hydrogen gas composition in Natural Gas that you seem to focus on?

    Not sure whether you are referring to "Hydrocarbons" or "Hydrogen" atoms as part of the natural gas? Methane is the main component of it along with ethane and propane. I am glad that we have got rid of this coal powered electricity from Ontario. No wonder we hardly see any smog these days.

    Anyway, this is a by-product of the petroleum industry. But Drawcoat, if this DumbDOFO states that he wants to start up these coal burning power generators. Are you okay if they are in your backyard and you get to take in all those wonderful emissions from these coal burning power generators?? Of course he will not want them near where he resides as it is "Not in My Backyard" rules for these Conns, but the rest of you guys take the hit for it. No one mentioned that they should "outlaw" the drilling for now. But when the new technology kicks in with electric cars etc., then they will reduce the drilling, and rightly so. No wonder the Younger Generation X and Y understand this fact and they want less of the impact of Climate Change on their lives. They have every right to be concerned about it!!

    But nice deflection with the marijuana!! Dumb DOFO will give you a detailed response as to how he was doing with his street trading of this illegal marijuana in his good old days!! All the same, the sales of legal cannabis are over $100 million per month. Not sure what your problem is with this Legal Cannabis?

    Again, you blame the present Government for all the packaging ocean contamination etc. We all know that the previous Conn Government did absolutely nothing about it, rather than ship it to some third world countries so that it became their problem and all they did was to either dump it in the ocean or just let it pile up in heaps and heaps. At least the one time use of plastics will be banned as soon as companies have figured out other alternatives. Moreover, this present Government has promised to plant a billion trees!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    You obviously are the one that does not understand about pollution in general. Now are you saying that the end point of this oil is just for production of electricity?? I am referring to fuel for vehicles etc. that are the biggest polluters as they use the largest portion of the oil that is being transported!!

    We all know that in Ontario, Coal is no longer used for electricity and has been phased out. Of course fossil fuels such as Natural Gas will be still be around in the not too distant future. Natural gas represents just 11% of the Electricity that is derived from it. The highest proportion is still from Nuclear Energy at 57% and the rest is Hydroelectricity. This is much "cleaner" than your above assessment of "Clean Energy". Now you can possible comprehend it!!
    Yes, the alternative fuel for vehicles is electricity (the first line in my post). All the electricity inhibitors now apply to both transportation and her electricity needs.

    Nuclear would work but ignorance and prohibitive costs are an issue.
    Ontario has a regional Hydro advantage (which is why you guys call your electric bill the hydro)
    The other renewables still have the same issues.


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    Quote Originally Posted by onthebottom View Post
    Yes, the alternative fuel for vehicles is electricity (the first line in my post). All the electricity inhibitors now apply to both transportation and her electricity needs.

    Nuclear would work but ignorance and prohibitive costs are an issue.
    Ontario has a regional Hydro advantage (which is why you guys call your electric bill the hydro)
    The other renewables still have the same issues.
    Renewables are not "dirty". But when they become the mainstream source, then we will see the costs coming down as there will be far more demand for it.

    The USA are a nation that should have shown some leadership in this field, but all they are doing is setting the clock and calendars backward!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    Renewables are not "dirty". But when they become the mainstream source, then we will see the costs coming down as there will be far more demand for it.

    The USA are a nation that should have shown some leadership in this field, but all they are doing is setting the clock and calendars backward!!
    Dude, seriously

    Renewables are not dirty, renewables are not the solution, that’s the point.


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    Quote Originally Posted by onthebottom View Post
    Dude, seriously

    Renewables are not dirty, renewables are not the solution, that’s the point.
    Read some facts for a change:

    https://phys.org/news/2017-01-nordic...ion-worth.html


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  18. #18
    You got 5 paragraphs, I got five awnsers.

    1.Methane is a carbon atom linked to 5 hydrogens. Without getting all technical on ya, Ill just say they are trying to figure out how to remove the carbon atom. Rearranging its bonds to liberate hydrogen requires some carefully thought out thermo dynamics. But they are working on it.

    2. See above

    3. I have no problem with your view on coal fired energy. With that being said I have no experience with living near a coal fired power plant. Clarington however I called home for 17 years. I mention this not because of the beautiful nuclear power plants, but because of the garbage incinerator that everybody told me was the end of the world. I was happy to host this plant right in my backyard, Trust me when I tell you it didn't affect my property value one fuckin percent. You can put a clean coal fired power plant in my backyard anytime. GeN X and Y can't afford cars and the bloated government requirements to own one. They are still living with the parents. They are not driving Teslas or Bolts for that matter.

    4. I grew a lot of majiuana back in the day of 3000 dollar a pound kush. Very small and very low key and very profitable. I have no problem with MJ. The feds and Ontario specifically have have fucked this file up big time. The black market is thriving in Ontario. Because it legal, BC growers are flooding the market with premium cheap weed. You can get a pound of firkin fire for 1700, thats 3.75 per gram. Do you know how easy it is to sell a pound a day and make 1000 tax free dollars on a product that is legal for your customers to have? Today my dealer made about 3 grand cause its cheque day. He will pay tax on none of it. Government types need to wise up and start collecting the revenues its owed. If they can't collect 50 percent of the taxes they impose, they should come up with another way. Taxes collected on MJ sold legally are less than 20 percent of the product being used LEGALLY!!!! On packaging, listen if you don't understand how much goes into making packaging in terms of killing trees, chemical processing, transportation and so on. This government is telling us climate change is an EXTISENTIAL THREAT and last thing they should be imposing is mandatory packaging on a product that be disppensed into a per bag at an outlet. HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH PACKAGING THERE IS TO A LITTLE 7 GRAM CONTAINER. ITS OBSENE. Whats that carbon footprint, please be consistent and tell me. ITS EXISTENTIAL TREAT.

    5. I never the mentioned the oceans and any talk of plastic is because we need natural gas and its derivatives to make it. The oceans a full of plastic because of the Third World. Does Canada deal with bad actors that dump shit in the ocean, probably. Were a country of 35 million, that takes care of the lion share of its own waste. A speck on the globe and trying to improve every day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bver_hunter View Post
    There isn’t a single fact in that link


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    Quote Originally Posted by onthebottom View Post
    There isnít a single fact in that link
    Keep up your obsession with coal powered and fossil fuel. To you countries that are moving ahead and away from them means nothing to you. But then it all depends on a certain POTUS and his word is Gospel truth to his supporters!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by drawcoat View Post
    You got 5 paragraphs, I got five awnsers.

    1.Methane is a carbon atom linked to 5 hydrogens. Without getting all technical on ya, Ill just say they are trying to figure out how to remove the carbon atom. Rearranging its bonds to liberate hydrogen requires some carefully thought out thermo dynamics. But they are working on it.
    I am very aware of the chemical structure of CH4. However, unless they need Hydrogen for specific purposes in the chemical industry, etc. why try to use it as a replacement for Methane and the other types of gaseous fuels, that are used to generate electricity?

    Quote Originally Posted by drawcoat View Post
    3. I have no problem with your view on coal fired energy. With that being said I have no experience with living near a coal fired power plant. Clarington however I called home for 17 years. I mention this not because of the beautiful nuclear power plants, but because of the garbage incinerator that everybody told me was the end of the world. I was happy to host this plant right in my backyard, Trust me when I tell you it didn't affect my property value one fuckin percent. You can put a clean coal fired power plant in my backyard anytime. GeN X and Y can't afford cars and the bloated government requirements to own one. They are still living with the parents. They are not driving Teslas or Bolts for that matter.
    All depends on the type of garbage incinerator and how they trap the toxic gases, being emitted from the waste. Coal fired power stations on the other hand were major causes for poor quality air. When I visited China at times I had to wear a mask although there was just one coal powered station in this location outside of Beijing. Yes, you can take that Coal Powered Station if you want, as no one wants it in their backyards. You cannot blame the Gen X and Gen Y for the vastly inflated prices of houses these days. We were fortunate to buy couple of houses at the right time and flip them to make our profits. In the 1990ties the you could get a beautiful detached house in the GTA for barely $250,000 and now the same house can cost almost 5 to 10 times the price. But that is not the point. Their future is what they are concerned with and Climate Change is the biggest concern to them. They have every right to be that worried about it. Houses can come and go, but impacts of climate change can have the biggest impact in their lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by drawcoat View Post
    4. I grew a lot of majiuana back in the day of 3000 dollar a pound kush. Very small and very low key and very profitable. I have no problem with MJ. The feds and Ontario specifically have have fucked this file up big time. The black market is thriving in Ontario. Because it legal, BC growers are flooding the market with premium cheap weed. You can get a pound of firkin fire for 1700, thats 3.75 per gram. Do you know how easy it is to sell a pound a day and make 1000 tax free dollars on a product that is legal for your customers to have? Today my dealer made about 3 grand cause its cheque day. He will pay tax on none of it. Government types need to wise up and start collecting the revenues its owed. If they can't collect 50 percent of the taxes they impose, they should come up with another way. Taxes collected on MJ sold legally are less than 20 percent of the product being used LEGALLY!!!! On packaging, listen if you don't understand how much goes into making packaging in terms of killing trees, chemical processing, transportation and so on. This government is telling us climate change is an EXTISENTIAL THREAT and last thing they should be imposing is mandatory packaging on a product that be disppensed into a per bag at an outlet. HAVE YOU SEEN HOW MUCH PACKAGING THERE IS TO A LITTLE 7 GRAM CONTAINER. ITS OBSENE. Whats that carbon footprint, please be consistent and tell me. ITS EXISTENTIAL TREAT.
    So you were involved in the illegal marijuana market then?? I am not involved in that market but, if the tax revenues that the Government claws in is around a billion, then what is wrong with it? Sure they can tax the hell out of it, but then the ones to complain the most will be the right wingers. However, if they are not paying their fair share, it could be because there are various credits that they can recoup in the form of Research and Production that the big Corporations normally take for granted. Sure packaging needs to be improved, but even in the Pharma Industry there are certain mandatory packaging requirements. Yes, but the biggest problem is single use plastics that are to be addressed. Tell me how was Andrew Scheer even thinking of solving this problem?? The Conservatives were the loudest to complain about charges on plastic shopping bags. Thankfully, it will be illegal shortly.

    Quote Originally Posted by drawcoat View Post
    5. I never the mentioned the oceans and any talk of plastic is because we need natural gas and its derivatives to make it. The oceans a full of plastic because of the Third World. Does Canada deal with bad actors that dump shit in the ocean, probably. Were a country of 35 million, that takes care of the lion share of its own waste. A speck on the globe and trying to improve every day.
    You threw plastics into the mix. Were you not aware that Canada was shipping it's plastics to be "RECYCLED" to countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, etc., and all that was occurring is that these plastics were being either dumped into the Oceans or just abandoned in the countryside. Canada had to take back loads of these plastics to be disposed off in our own incinerators. For sure these plastics are by-products of the oil, coal etc industries and manufactured by simple polymerisation processes. They are far cheaper to produce than paper packages from wood. However paper is easier to recycle, as it is extremely difficult to clean up the plastics prior to recycling. Most countries even the third world nations are beginning to take these plastic waste disposals very seriously. They are cleaning up their Oceans and Beaches. Countries like Japan take recycling even more seriously as they have many more regulations on how to split their wastes during the garbage days. They have to split them into far more complicated categories before they are picked up. So we cannot boast that we are leading the world in this respect!!


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    Pipelines are not safer than rail, off rail accidents are spectacular, pipeline ruptures are creeping.

    I don't believe the Alberta report that 99% of the leaked oil was recovered - that's Don Quixote. 80% maybe but the Saskatchewan river basin will be contaminated for years to come. The ND rupture is even worse, that will be felt all the way to St Louis and beyond. That's why BC has been fighting tooth and nail against a pipeline expansion. Salmon stocks are collapsing, the Columbia River Chinook went extinct at the start of the century. Orcas are already starving, with the new pipeline they will also become history in the BC/Washington St corridor.

    Nuclear would be the answer if they could figure out what to do with spent fuel rods. I wish this were true...the clip is 6 years old.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQKT4axR6RU

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    Quote Originally Posted by WyattEarp View Post
    Why is 1% deep cause for concern?
    Even if 1% finds it's way into the local drinking water lakes, that will be a very serious cause for concern. The toxicity in drinking water even at PPB levels are harmful!!


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