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Is Hockey Still King in Toronto?

Are the Leafs Still King?


  • Total voters
    57

black booty lover

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2007
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No doubt as a kid, I was a die hard Leafs fan. I loved the Blue Jays as well, but that didn't come until about the mid 80's when the Jays started to compete and won their first division title in 85'. By the time the Jays won back 2 back WS, I loved both teams equally. In the last 10 years, I've definitely become more of a Jays fan, as hockey has changed so much and it's just not the game it used to be. I realize all sports have changed, but I find hockey the most, and just not the same game I grew up watching.

With the ethnic diversity in Toronto, and the cost of having a child in hockey, it's seems like the Leafs aren't still King anymore, and the other sports have caught up.

Am I accurate with observation?
 

unassuming

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2017
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You are accurate, I grew up a die hard leafs fan-Sittler, Salming and Macdonald era. These days don't really follow hockey at all, game has definitely changed, no more bench clearing brawls, all goalies looks same and play the same-Butterfly style, and all players look same with helmets on.

I've been a Jays since inaugural season.

I don't follow basketball at all, but Raptors IMO are more popular than Leafs.

I have a co worker- white dude, good ol' canadian boy so to speak, mid to late 30's. I asked him if he knew how to ice skate, he said no. Then I asked if he followed hockey, he said no, but he's a big Raptors fan.

Basketball is very cheap to play for immigrants to T.O.- tank top, shorts and sneakers is all they need.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Even though our personal feelings may have evolved, make no mistake. If the Leafs ever got to the final, let alone win the cup, you would see an enthusiasm in the city that would dwarf what we had last spring with the Raptors. The parade would be massive.
 

black booty lover

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2007
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you would see an enthusiasm in the city that would dwarf what we had last spring with the Raptors. The parade would be massive.
See, this I'm not totally sold on. I'm not sure you can get much bigger than the Raptors Parade. I think the Raptors have a bigger fan base due to ethnic diversities they reach out to. Toronto is more multi-cultural now than it ever has been, and there's generations of young people that grew up on basketball as opposed to hockey. I think the old saying "If the Leafs every one the Stanley cup..." is out of habit. We say this because we've been saying it for so long, but many of the core leaf fans are to old to go out to bars and jump around on the streets. The Blue Jays when good pack a huge stadium on a regular basis. Many of the hockey shows ratings are falling big time. HNIC ratings continue to decline, and I think that's because of Ontario. Shows like Hockey Central at Noon ratings are way down. One of the reason Sportsnet is totally restructuring. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the Leafs won, it would be crazy, but I don't how much bigger it can get than Raptors Parade. There was like 2 million people down there.
 

Don Draper

Cufflinks & Cognac
Nov 24, 2009
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Even though our personal feelings may have evolved, make no mistake. If the Leafs ever got to the final, let alone win the cup, you would see an enthusiasm in the city that would dwarf what we had last spring with the Raptors. The parade would be massive.
The point is that the Leafs will never get to the final. They're not that kind of organization. There is no commitment to winning like the great teams have and the Raptors have shown.

It's a business to the Board of Directors. Since the fan base pays top $$$ for a very sub-standard product (a marketing dream!) there is no reason to invest further in order to achieve a profit. Already achieved.

Pay lip service to the fan base, make promises that don't have to be kept, do some community charity work, toot your horn and keep up the facade of a real organization. It's an excellent business plan.

It's worked for them for decades and the gullible ticket buyers eat it up.

Why change it now?
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,035
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Even though our personal feelings may have evolved, make no mistake. If the Leafs ever got to the final, let alone win the cup, you would see an enthusiasm in the city that would dwarf what we had last spring with the Raptors. The parade would be massive.
lol. You didn't go to the Raptors parade did you? The parade was 7 hours delayed!!! A Leafs parade wouldn't come close in terms of #of people.

Times are changing. Even the Leafs are drawing inspiration from the Raps
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...of-game-ritual-reaches-for-raptors-magic.html
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3H_m2knEir/
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,035
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It's a business to the Board of Directors. Since the fan base pays top $$$ for a very sub-standard product (a marketing dream!) there is no reason to invest further in order to achieve a profit. Already achieved.
Up until recently I would agree with this, but the last few years they have been trying. You could argue they would have won it all last season if they beat Boston.

The Leafs are in a tough position. They've never had to play second fiddle and The Raptors are now the most valuable sports franchise in Canada with plenty more room to grow.
 

Goodoer

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2004
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GTA & Thereabouts...
Hockey is #1 in my world. Winter life revolves around it. The Leafs are part of that as well.

The people/parents around me are the same.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
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I think the Raptors have a bigger fan base due to ethnic diversities they reach out to. Toronto is more multi-cultural now than it ever has been, and there's generations of young people that grew up on basketball
I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts and no surprise one of our members immediately accused me of racist.

The Raptors and Leafs schedules overlap during the Winter months. The Jays usually don't have any competition during the Summer.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,705
7,980
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Toronto
See, this I'm not totally sold on. I'm not sure you can get much bigger than the Raptors Parade. I think the Raptors have a bigger fan base due to ethnic diversities they reach out to. Toronto is more multi-cultural now than it ever has been, and there's generations of young people that grew up on basketball as opposed to hockey. I think the old saying "If the Leafs every one the Stanley cup..." is out of habit. We say this because we've been saying it for so long, but many of the core leaf fans are to old to go out to bars and jump around on the streets. The Blue Jays when good pack a huge stadium on a regular basis. Many of the hockey shows ratings are falling big time. HNIC ratings continue to decline, and I think that's because of Ontario. Shows like Hockey Central at Noon ratings are way down. One of the reason Sportsnet is totally restructuring. Don't get me wrong, I understand if the Leafs won, it would be crazy, but I don't how much bigger it can get than Raptors Parade. There was like 2 million people down there.
I am hoping that we have a chance to compare championship parades. In this case, I wouldn't mind being proved wrong.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,705
7,980
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Toronto
The point is that the Leafs will never get to the final.

Ignorant comment. Do you purport to actually KNOW the future? Based on this opening line, the rest of your post was not worthy of reading.

And the discussion was, IF the Leafs won. You know. A hypothetical proposed for the sake of discussion. Feel free to not discuss if you feel it is not worthy of discussion. But do not feel you have the right to tell us that we should not be discussing it by looking into your crystal ball and telling us that it will NEVER happen.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,705
7,980
113
Toronto
lol. You didn't go to the Raptors parade did you? The parade was 7 hours delayed!!! A Leafs parade wouldn't come close in terms of #of people.
I am aware of the happenings of the event.

However, the discussion of which sport is "king" in Toronto is not restricted to discussion of a parade. There are other parameters to consider.
 

Don Draper

Cufflinks & Cognac
Nov 24, 2009
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Ignorant comment. Do you purport to actually KNOW the future? Based on this opening line, the rest of your post was not worthy of reading.

And the discussion was, IF the Leafs won. You know. A hypothetical proposed for the sake of discussion. Feel free to not discuss if you feel it is not worthy of discussion. But do not feel you have the right to tell us that we should not be discussing it by looking into your crystal ball and telling us that it will NEVER happen.

The last 50 years:

~ No final appearances

~ No season MVP's

~ No season goal leaders

~ No season points leaders

~ No Hart trophies

~ No Norris trophies

~ No Vezina trophies

~ NO STANLEY CUPS

~ No Conn Smythe Trophies

~ Last 14 years 3 first round exits

~ No Leafs players have ever won the Art Ross, James Norris or Rocket Richard in her 100 year history

~ All their championships came in a Black & White era

~ Compared to the original 6, they are the biggest embarrassment of all

It's easy to see a basic pattern here. It's a very safe bet. Like the Cubs or Red Sox, it'll take 90 to 100 years to turn things around.

Not in our lifetime.
 

smuddan

Well-known member
Mar 7, 2007
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The point is that the Leafs will never get to the final. They're not that kind of organization. There is no commitment to winning like the great teams have and the Raptors have shown.

It's a business to the Board of Directors. Since the fan base pays top $$$ for a very sub-standard product (a marketing dream!) there is no reason to invest further in order to achieve a profit. Already achieved.
?
As far as I know, the Raptors and the Leafs are both owned by MLSE and report to the same Board of Directors !
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,035
2,184
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I am aware of the happenings of the event.

However, the discussion of which sport is "king" in Toronto is not restricted to discussion of a parade. There are other parameters to consider.
Outside of tradition and loyalty, the parameters to consider don't look good for hockey.

I could list a bunch of parameters, but there's only one to really consider is hockey registration is on the decline while Basketball is rising amount the youth.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,705
7,980
113
Toronto
Outside of tradition and loyalty, the parameters to consider don't look good for hockey.

I could list a bunch of parameters, but there's only one to really consider is hockey registration is on the decline while Basketball is rising amount the youth.
So basketball registration proves that a Leafs cup would not be celebrated more than a Raps championship?

How about TV viewership? How about media coverage? How about revenue? Just some factors that would probably skew in the Leafs direction and be an indicator of relative popularity.

Hockey is still number one, IMO.
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,035
2,184
113
So basketball registration proves that a Leafs cup would not be celebrated more than a Raps championship?

How about TV viewership? How about media coverage? How about revenue? Just some factors that would probably skew in the Leafs direction and be an indicator of relative popularity.

Hockey is still number one, IMO.
It's just one example of where things are going. I have a hard time believing the Leafs would match what I saw.

Raptors are already valued higher than the Leafs, NBA is a bigger market, I don't see the growth in Leaf Nation. It wouldn't be as skewed as you think. Might even surprise you.

Hockey is still number one, in certain areas.
 
Last edited:

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
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Raptors are already valued higher than the Leafs, NBA is a bigger market, I don't see the grow in Leaf Nation.
Based strictly on observation and not hard stats, I think the Raptor fan base are a younger (maybe much younger) and more diversified demographics than the Leaf fan base.
 

unassuming

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2017
11,786
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Based strictly on observation and not hard stats, I think the Raptor fan base are a younger (maybe much younger) and more diversified demographics than the Leaf fan base.
Yup, all one has to do is look at the the fans in Maple Leaf Square and Jurasssic Park.
 
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