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Greta Thunberg to Congress: ‘You’re not trying hard enough. Sorry’

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,417
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No I am right

Hilarious, you accuse me of being dishonest but can't find one single example.
I've got an easy one for you:
You keep trying to dishonestly compare surface temperature projections against troposphere measurements, where there is a 40ºC difference in temperature.
Dishonest.
One single example?
Your have soooo many to would take to long to list them (30,000 posts filled with inaccuracies , misrepresentations and lies + an unknown number when you were Groggy)
Lets just go with your repeated attempts to misquote me and your despicable character assassinations on honest scientist when you do not understand the science at all

Here is another perfect example of your rotten to the core, despicable dishonestly
You were asked to explain your ridiculous statement "water vapour is only a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate."

Originally posted by JohnLarue
The forcing effect is absorption of infrared radiation by water Vapour and Co2
simply explain what other forcing effect CO2 has that water vapour does not
You can not explain it because
1. You do not understand any science. period
2. There is no other forcing effect other than the absorption of infrared radiation
Your response
Its irrelevant to why water vapour is a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate.
Its not worth discussing.
A complete dishonest and evasive answer to an extremely relevant question
You made a false statement which you claim is a scientific fact
You have been asked to prove this and you say is not worth discussing

This is a dishonest and evasive as it gets
answer the damn question

The truth of the matter is your statement is false and you know it is
Prove me wrong and explain the physics behind your lie

The latest chart from Christy/Spencer shows warming in the atmosphere.
End of argument.
1/3 of the warming of the IPCC models proving the models are junk and the climate change hysteria is unjustified
0.38 of a degree over three decades is also well within any natural viability of temperature records on any time scale


.
Using kindergarten level taunts isn't making a scientific argument, larue.
But you think Saying "Cuz that where the peoples is " is a scientific argument?????
Too funny
You are scientific know-nothing and prove this with each post

There is warming in the atmosphere, as shown.
End of argument.
No enough to justify the hysteria or to justify scaring the living hell out of children



When testing a hypothesis you don't substitute measurements from another source, that's how science works.
Really??
You should tell that to the IPCC
1. Their measurements of atmospheric CO2 are a combination of ice core samples up until the mid 20th century and actual measurements afterwards
2. Their surface temperature records are a mix-mass of data sources combined together with all kinds of assumptions and adjustments
3. Michael Mann's fraudulent hockey stick was a series of weight proxies designed to erase a thousand years of temperature history . A big portion was based upon one tree ring sample
It seems to me you had no issue with the use of proxies when defending his fraudulent attempt to mis-present history

The IPCC projects warming surface temperatures but you and Christy substitute troposphere temperatures as tests, that's not science, that's bullshit.
1. We have firmly established the greenhouse effect occurs in the atmosphere
So if it ain't warming there , then end of argument
2. Why did you post a up-to-date picture of John Christy's / Roy spencer's work?
Because you thought it proved something.
Too bad it proved the IPCC models are junk

The IPCC projects 0.2ºC warming per decade on the surface and Christy/Spencer show 0.13ºC warming in the clouds, or troposphere, where there is a 40ºC difference in base temperatures.
The Christy/Spencer UAH measurements are lower than measurements from RSS satellite measurements, which show 0.14ºC more warming over the same period.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/study-why-troposphere-warming-differs-between-models-and-satellite-data
Oh boy. Did you think one could not see this coming?

Comments on the New RSS Lower Tropospheric Temperature Dataset
July 6th, 2017 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
It was inevitable that the new RSS mid-tropospheric (MT) temperature dataset, which showed more warming than the previous version, would be followed with a new lower-tropospheric (LT) dataset. (Carl Mears has posted a useful FAQ on the new dataset, how it differs from the old, and why they made adjustments).

Before I go into the details, let’s keep all of this in perspective. Our globally-averaged trend is now about +0.12 C/decade, while the new RSS trend has increased to about +0.17 C/decade.

Note these trends are still well below the average climate model trend for LT, which is +0.27 C/decade.
The rest of the article can be found here
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2017/07/comments-on-the-new-rss-lower-tropospheric-temperature-dataset/

BTW 1.25 degrees over 40 years is not 0.2 degrees per decade as you claim
The IPCC models are clearly broken



Those RSS measurements show as much warming in the troposphere as the IPCC projects for surface temperatures.
End of argument.
No they do not
why do you have this relentless need to lie


A proper test of this hypothesis is to judge projections of surface temperatures against measurements of surface temperatures.
As done here:
End of argument.
A proper test??????
The planet is theoretically warming and the theory dictates this warming is caused by a phenomenon occurring in the atmosphere
And you insist the atmospheric temperatures do not matter
Nope
1. We have firmly established the greenhouse effect occurs in the atmosphere
So if it ain't warming there , then end of argument
2. The surface record is incomplete and is tainted by the urban Island heat effect

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,962
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No I am right



One single example?
Your have soooo many to would take to long to list them (30,000 posts filled with inaccuracies , misrepresentations and lies + an unknown number when you were Groggy)
Lets just go with your repeated attempts to misquote me and your despicable character assassinations on honest scientist when you do not understand the science at all

Here is another perfect example of your rotten to the core, despicable dishonestly
You were asked to explain your ridiculous statement "water vapour is only a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate."
You inserted the word 'only' into that statement.
I said water vapour is a feedback effect on the climate and CO2 is a forcing and didn't use the word 'only'.

Your called me dishonest while using a dishonest intentional misquote.
That's fucking dishonest and lame, larue.

Why should I continue to debate with someone who is so inherently dishonest?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,417
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You inserted the word 'only' into that statement.
I said water vapour is a feedback effect on the climate and CO2 is a forcing and didn't use the word 'only'.

Your called me dishonest while using a dishonest intentional misquote.
That's fucking dishonest and lame, larue.

Why should I continue to debate with someone who is so inherently dishonest?
#1. You have lost this debate
#2. You are the dishonest one. You have been proven wrong on multiple occasions , yet you continue to spread falsehoods and attack the characters of honest hard working scientists
#3 You need to back up your ridiculous claims

You have made it clear that you think (incorrectly) water vapour has no forcing effect

Its irrelevant to why water vapour is a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate.
Its not worth discussing.
A complete dishonest and evasive answer to an extremely relevant question
You made a false statement which you claim is a scientific fact
You have been asked to prove this and you say is not worth discussing

This is a dishonest and evasive as it gets
answer the damn question

The truth of the matter is your statement is false and you know it is
Prove me wrong and explain the physics behind your lie



You are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,962
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#1. You have lost this debate
#2. You are the dishonest one. You have been proven wrong on multiple occasions , yet you continue to spread falsehoods and attack the characters of honest hard working scientists
#3 You need to back up your ridiculous claims

You have made it clear that you think (incorrectly) water vapour has no forcing effect
You are lying, larue.
You are incredibly dishonest.
Proof:

Larue, you're lying and doing it very poorly.

1) The IPCC notes that the only anthropomorphic effects on climate change from water vapour are in the upper atmosphere or stratosphere, where they are less than CO2 and CH4. Yet you try to claim that this is for the entire atmosphere. Very dishonest and lame lying here, larue. The quote you like to pretend backs you, when its clearly shows you are lying:

2) Water vapour is the primary greenhouse gas but because its effects are those of a feedback effect it only reacts to climate change, it doesn't cause it, even should you pump the atmosphere full of water vapour filled hot air through your spittle filled ranting. CO2, on the other hand, is a forcing effect and when you pump it into the atmosphere with your breathless ranting it does increase the planet's temperature. As clearly stated in the IPCC reports you selectively quote.
In that post I specifically noted that water vapour has what the IPCC calls a 'negligible' forcing effect from anthropogenic water vapour in the stratosphere. Just as water vapour's largest effect is as a feedback effect to temperature changes from CO2 changes but water vapour also has a cooling effect in the form of clouds.

You are disgustingly dishonest liar and I've caught you out multiple times lying here.
I've given you specific examples and the proof to back it up.

johnlarue you are a liar
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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You are lying, larue.
You are incredibly dishonest.
Proof:

In that post I specifically noted that water vapour has what the IPCC calls a 'negligible' forcing effect from anthropogenic water vapour in the stratosphere. Just as water vapour's largest effect is as a feedback effect to temperature changes from CO2 changes but water vapour also has a cooling effect in the form of clouds.

What part of anthropogenic = Man-made do you not understand ????
Too bad 99.999% of the water vapour in the atmosphere is natural

You are disgustingly dishonest liar and I've caught you out multiple times lying here.
I've given you specific examples and the proof to back it up.
You have proven nothing other than the fact that you are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
johnlarue you are a liar
Ah no
#1. You have lost this debate
#2. You are the dishonest one. You have been proven wrong on multiple occasions , yet you continue to spread falsehoods and attack the characters of honest hard working scientists
#3 You need to back up your ridiculous claims

You have made it clear that you think (incorrectly) water vapour has no forcing effect

Its irrelevant to why water vapour is a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate.
Its not worth discussing.
A complete dishonest and evasive answer to an extremely relevant question
You made a false statement which you claim is a scientific fact
You have been asked to prove this and you say is not worth discussing

This is a dishonest and evasive as it gets
answer the damn question

The truth of the matter is your statement is false and you know it is
Prove me wrong and explain the physics behind your lie



You are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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What part of anthropogenic = Man-made do you not understand ????
Too bad 99.999% of the water vapour in the atmosphere is natural
larue, maybe you really just aren't that bright.
You need to reread the IPCC reports over and over until you understand the basics, until then you'll keep repeating the same, incredibly ignorant, mistakes over and over again.

1) We were discussing 'effects' here, where the only anthropogenic effect from water vapour is in the stratosphere, where it shows a 'negligible' forcing effect according to the IPCC report you can't understand.
2) Yes, most of the water vapour in the atmosphere is natural, where it functions as a feedback effect on the climate, with the 'negligible' exception of anthropogenic stratosphere water vapour and the exception of the cooling effect of water vapour in the form of clouds.
3) That is why the IPCC states that water vapour acts as a feedback effect and that CO2 changes drive climate change, with water vapour multiplying those changes by 2 - 3 times.

Until you apologize for lying previously and can prove you understand these basic facts there is no point trying to get past your Dunning-Kruger 'superior understanding of science'.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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larue, maybe you really just aren't that bright.
Next to you I am a god damn rocket scientist

You need to reread the IPCC reports over and over until you understand the basics, until then you'll keep repeating the same, incredibly ignorant, mistakes over and over again.
Too funny
You stated the counter argument to their feedback warming, negating 2/3 of the catastrophic warming
Yo need to take some remedial high school level math & science course, just so that you will begin to understand what is the IPCC reports

1) We were discussing 'effects' here, where the only anthropogenic effect from water vapour is in the stratosphere, where it shows a 'negligible' forcing effect according to the IPCC report you can't understand.
You do not even understand what you write
Your statement is there is negotiable forcing effects from man-made water vapour in the stratosphere.
Too bad the natural forcing effects of the 99.999% of the atmospheres water vapour is natural and in the troposphere and this makes it the dominate green house gas by far


2) Yes, most of the water vapour in the atmosphere is natural, where it functions as a feedback effect on the climate, with the 'negligible' exception of anthropogenic stratosphere water vapour and the exception of the cooling effect of water vapour in the form of clouds.
That is Absolutely positively dead wrong. The forcing effect is from the absorption of Infrared radiation by water vapour
You appear to have changed your position again, now stating the feedback is a cooling effect
The feedback effect of water Vapour according to the IPCC is a warming effect, not the cooling effect. Again you negate 2/3 of the warming in their models which makes all difference in the world
I personally think the feedback is a net zero effect which eliminates the crisis

You have made it clear that you think (incorrectly) water vapour has no forcing effect

Its irrelevant to why water vapour is a feedback effect and CO2 a forcing effect on the climate.
Its not worth discussing.
A complete dishonest and evasive answer to an extremely relevant question
You made a false statement which you claim is a scientific fact
You have been asked to prove the physics behind your false statement and you say is not worth discussing

This is a dishonest and evasive as it gets
answer the damn question


3) That is why the IPCC states that water vapour acts as a feedback effect and that CO2 changes drive climate change, with water vapour multiplying those changes by 2 - 3 times.
Look einstein if the feedback effect of water vapour is a cooling effect one as you say, how does that amplify the heating effect of CO2 by 2-3 times ?
answer the damn question

You do not have a clue what you are taking about

Until you apologize for lying previously and can prove you understand these basic facts there is no point trying to get past your Dunning-Kruger 'superior understanding of science'.
You need to apologize for you despicable character assassination of honest hard working scientists like Judith Curry.
You are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
Words can not describe how inappropriate and dispicable it is for a scientific know nothings to attack the character of a scientist
You have zero shame and zero integrity

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Next to you I am a god damn rocket scientist


You do not even understand what you write
Your statement is there is negotiable forcing effects from man-made water vapour in the stratosphere.
This paragraph really shows off your intellect, larue.
You follow this incredibly stupid line with another incredibly stupid line:
Too bad the natural forcing effects of the 99.999% of the atmospheres water vapour is natural and in the troposphere and this makes it the dominate green house gas by far
Water vapour functions as a feedback effect in the troposphere, when you are talking climatology.
You just aren't bright enough to understand that basic fact, are you?




Look einstein if the feedback effect of water vapour is a cooling effect one as you say, how does that amplify the heating effect of CO2 by 2-3 times ?
answer the damn question

You do not have a clue what you are taking about
Again, you mix up words in sentences showing that you don't understand the basic science.
Water vapour in the atmosphere (including troposphere and stratosphere) functions as feedback effect, not a 'cooling effect'.
When you say 'feedback effect' that means that if you add CO2 it warms the atmosphere and water vapour multiplies that effect 2-3 times and if you took out CO2 it would amplify the resultant cooling by 2-3 times, because CO2 is the forcing effect and water vapour the feedback effect.

Its clear that its you that doesn't have a clue, as you continue to get the basics wrong every time while denying basic scientific facts.



You need to apologize for you despicable character assassination of honest hard working scientists like Judith Curry.
You are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
Words can not describe how inappropriate and dispicable it is for a scientific know nothings to attack the character of a scientist
You have zero shame and zero integrity
I find this fucking hilarious after your attacks on the IPCC, which represents thousands of scientists.

Feel free to post Judith Curry's theory of why the climate is changing, if you like.
If you want to defend her science, you need to first find out what it is, other than her disinformation attacks on existing scientists.
As you continue to say, to prove science you must prove your hypothesis with evidence.
Go ahead and provide us with Curry's hypothesis and her proof.

When you fail, as you always do, I'll once again point you to the IPCC as a model of a hypothesis with overwhelming evidence to back it up.
No personal attacks.

Go ahead, you are officially challenged.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Water vapour functions as a feedback effect in the troposphere, when you are talking climatology.
You just aren't bright enough to understand that basic fact, are you?
You do not have the slightest clue what you are taking about

The forcing effect is absorption of infrared radiation by water Vapour and Co2
simply explain what other forcing effect CO2 has that water vapour does not
you refuse to explain this

You can not explain it because
1. You do not understand any science. period
2. There is no other forcing effect other than the absorption of infrared radiation




Again, you mix up words in sentences showing that you don't understand the basic science.
Water vapour in the atmosphere (including troposphere and stratosphere) functions as feedback effect, not a 'cooling effect'.
No you do not get it
The IPCC stated that many scientists do not consider Water Vapour as having an Anthropogenic forcing effect
And given your grade six level scientific understanding you somehow concluded water Vapour has no forcing effect at all
Which is dead wrong as the natural water Vapour has way more forcing effect via the absorption of infrared radiation than CO2

When you say 'feedback effect' that means that if you add CO2 it warms the atmosphere and water vapour multiplies that effect 2-3 times and if you took out CO2 it would amplify the resultant cooling by 2-3 times, because CO2 is the forcing effect and water vapour the feedback effect.
??????????? Science according to Frankfooter???????????????????????????????
What a joke
Explain exactly how Water Vapour amplifies the heat effect of CO2 ?
Explain the physics
It has to have a forcing effect if it is going to accomplish this


Its clear that its you that doesn't have a clue, as you continue to get the basics wrong every time while denying basic scientific facts.
Too funny from a scientific know -nothing
Have you settled on Water Vapour feedback cooling or heating yet?

I find this fucking hilarious after your attacks on the IPCC, which represents thousands of scientists.
Character attacks against a nameless/ faceless organization, who answers to no-one?
Well I guess they do answer to the World Wildlife Foundation

Feel free to post Judith Curry's theory of why the climate is changing, if you like.
If you want to defend her science, you need to first find out what it is, other than her disinformation attacks on existing scientists.
As you continue to say, to prove science you must prove your hypothesis with evidence.
Go ahead and provide us with Curry's hypothesis and her proof.
Do you mean "Climate is a non-linear chaotic system which is virtually impossible to predict over the long term" ?
She believes we do understand natural variability well enough to be confident in doomsday predictions

When you fail, as you always do, I'll once again point you to the IPCC as a model of a hypothesis with overwhelming evidence to back it up.
No personal attacks.
Yeah too bad their predictions have been exaggerated
No backing down so long as you continue with this "water Vapour is a feedback and CO2 is a forcing " and " Atmospheric temperature changes are irrelevant to the Greenhouse effect" garbage

Water Vapour is the dominate Greenhouse gas
Agreed to that or be shown for the liar / scientific know -nothing you are

Go ahead, you are officially challenged.
You were challenged the second you tried to bullshit your way through a scientific argument
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You do not have the slightest clue what you are taking about

The forcing effect is absorption of infrared radiation by water Vapour and Co2
simply explain what other forcing effect CO2 has that water vapour does not
you refuse to explain this

You can not explain it because
1. You do not understand any science. period
2. There is no other forcing effect other than the absorption of infrared radiation
laure, this is the definition of radiative forcing in the climate:
"Radiative forcing is a measure of the influence a factor has in altering the balance of incoming and outgoing energy in the Earth-atmosphere system and is an index of the importance of the factor as a potential climate change mechanism. In this report radiative forcing values are for changes relative to preindustrial conditions defined at 1750 and are expressed in Watts per square meter (W/m2)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

Your questions bely a total ignorance of the definition.
Until you understand what radiative forcing is in climatology, no further questions can be answered.


The IPCC stated that many scientists do not consider Water Vapour as having an Anthropogenic forcing effect
The IPCC says that all climatologists do not believe that water vapour's effect on the climate is a forcing effect, instead its a feedback effect.
I can't believe you still don't get the fucking basics.



Explain exactly how Water Vapour amplifies the heat effect of CO2 ?
Again?
Holy shit, how many times?
Are you that stupid?

Here you go, hope you understand it this time:
When you add more heat into the atmosphere, through CO2 increases, it increases the ability of the atmosphere to hold more water vapour, thereby magnifying the changes from CO2 in a feedback effect on the climate.

This is what you think Curry's 'hypothesis' is?
She believes we do understand natural variability well enough to be confident in doomsday predictions
If that's her theory, with which you failed to provide evidence, I'd accept as correct.
As, according to you, she thinks your claims are full of shit.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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laure, this is the definition of radiative forcing in the climate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

Your questions bely a total ignorance of the definition.
Until you understand what radiative forcing is in climatology, no further questions can be answered.
A total cop out
Your response does even come close to answering the question

The forcing effect is absorption of infrared radiation by water Vapour and Co2
simply explain what other forcing effect CO2 has that water vapour does not
you refuse to explain this

You can not explain it because
1. You do not understand any science. period
2. There is no other forcing effect other than the absorption of infrared radiation

Explain the physics behind your absurd and completely incorrect statement
Now Answer the dam question



The IPCC says that all climatologists do not believe that water vapour's effect on the climate is a forcing effect, instead its a feedback effect.
I can't believe you still don't get the fucking basics.
No
The IPCC stated that many scientists do not consider Water Vapour as having an Anthropogenic forcing effect

I can believe you do not understand the basis because you do not understand the science at all


Again?
Holy shit, how many times?
Are you that stupid?
You have never answered the question to begin with

Explain exactly how Water Vapour amplifies the heat effect of CO2 ?

Now Answer the damn question
Explain the physics behind your statement

You do not understand this and are incapable of explaining it


Here you go, hope you understand it this time:
When you add more heat into the atmosphere, through CO2 increases, it increases the ability of the atmosphere to hold more water vapour, thereby magnifying the changes from CO2 in a feedback effect on the climate.
Explain exactly how the water vapour magnifies the changes from CO2


This is what you think Curry's 'hypothesis' is?
If that's her theory, with which you failed to provide evidence, I'd accept as correct
.

So you attacked her character without knowing what she opposed or agreed with?
simply because she was a threat to your Climate doomsday scenario and your wet dream of a socialist government solution to a non-problem
I bet you do not have a god damn clue what John Christy, Roy Spencer, Richard Toll or Richard Lindzen or any other skeptic believe, yet you go into Character assassination mode automatically

You are a scientific know-nothing and do not understand the greenhouse gas theory at all and you are completely void of any integrity
Words can not describe how inappropriate and dispicable it is for a scientific know nothings to attack the character of a scientist
You have zero shame and zero integrity

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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A total cop out
Your response does even come close to answering the question

The forcing effect is absorption of infrared radiation by water Vapour and Co2
simply explain what other forcing effect CO2 has that water vapour does not
you refuse to explain this

You can not explain it because
1. You do not understand any science. period
2. There is no other forcing effect other than the absorption of infrared radiation

Explain the physics behind your absurd and completely incorrect statement
Now Answer the dam question
No, larue.
Your question is based on your faulty understanding of the term forcing in climatology.
Its irrelevant to the question of which drives climate change, CO2 or water vapour.


The IPCC stated that many scientists do not consider Water Vapour as having an Anthropogenic forcing effect
They said its 'negligible' and occurs only in the Stratosphere, which is why you are fixated on it.


Explain exactly how Water Vapour amplifies the heat effect of CO2 ?

Now Answer the damn question
Answered many times, here's the latest.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...ugh-Sorry%92&p=6522169&viewfull=1#post6522169


So you attacked her character without knowing what she opposed or agreed with?
simply because she was a threat to your Climate doomsday scenario and your wet dream of a socialist government solution to a non-problem
I bet you do not have a god damn clue what John Christy, Roy Spencer, Richard Toll or Richard Lindzen or any other skeptic believe, yet you go into Character assassination mode automatically
I know that she has no hypothesis and that all she has are faulty papers attacking minor details of climatology.
That's why I challenged you, because I know she has no theory and you'd fail.
As you did.


Meanwhile, even as you are intellectually unable to grasp basic facts, its time to refresh you on reality.
(note that I don't rely on 10 year old charts or 10 year trashy articles)

To understand where we're headed, we must first assess the changes we're already observing. Since 2001, we've seen 18 of the 19 warmest years ever.



Four of the five hottest years on record have happened since 2015. This year is on pace to be the third-hottest on record globally.


The planet's oceans absorb a whopping 93% of the extra heat that greenhouse gases trap in the atmosphere. Last year was the hottest year on record for the oceans.

That warming threatens coral reefs worldwide. Warm waters cause corals to expel the algae living in their their tissues and turn white in a process called bleaching. At present rates, it's expected that 60% of all coral reefs will be highly or critically threatened by 2030.

Warming waters are also melting Arctic and Antarctic glaciers from underneath. In 2012, Greenland lost more than 400 billion tons of ice, which was almost quadruple the amount of loss in 2003.


In the 1980s, Antarctica lost 40 billion tons of ice annually. In the last decade, that number jumped to an average of 252 billion tons per year.


A warming planet leads to more extreme weather, both cold and hot. A 2017 study found that the frequency of polar-vortex events has increased by as much as 140% over the past four decades.


Climate change is also linked to more warm, dry days in regions with a risk of wildfires, like California. In November 2018, the most deadly and destructive wildfire in the state's history — the Camp Fire — started during what is typically the rainy season.




You should read the article.
https://www.businessinsider.com/par...limate-agreement-set-to-avoid-at-all-costs-13
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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n 2011, renowned scientist Michael E. Mann sued a Canadian think tank that published an interview suggesting his work on climate change was fraud.

Eight years later, the Winnipeg-based Frontier Centre for Public Policy — which often promotes climate change denial — apologized Friday and wiped the inflammatory interview from its website.

"(The apology) gives me faith in our legal system that truth can still win out, even in an era of 'fake news' and 'alternative facts,'" Mann said in an email to National Observer.

In the fight against climate disinformation, experts like Mann, an atmospheric scientist at Pennsylvania State University, are turning to new arenas.

Mann is best known as the lead researcher on a landmark 1998 paper on climate change. He and three colleagues reconstructed global temperatures going back about 500 years, producing a now-infamous sideways-hockey-stick-like graph of global temperatures that showed a sharp upswing beginning in the 1900s.

Mann has spent the two decades since the paper’s publication defending it and his reputation against climate change deniers — sometimes in court. He settled with the Frontier Centre on Friday, but a related case in British Columbia and a similar one in the United States are ongoing.

Renowned climate scientist Michael E. Mann got an apology Friday from a think-tank that published an interview attacking his reputation. In the fight against climate disinformation, experts like him are turning to new arenas.
In a message posted to its website, the Frontier Centre apologized for publishing “untrue and disparaging” comments about Mann.

"Although the Frontier Centre for Public Policy still does not see eye to eye with Mr. Mann on the subject of global warming and climate change, we now accept that it was wrong to publish allegations by others that Mr. Mann did not comply with ethical standards..." the think tank wrote in part.

I've settled my claims in BC Supreme Court against The Frontier Centre for Public Policy Inc. on a basis which includes the following retraction & apology. I have not settled my claims against Tim Ball, who remains a defendant in that lawsuit: https://fcpp.org/retraction-and-apology-to-michael-mann/

In an email to National Observer, Frontier president and CEO Peter Holle said the group is choosing to address the issue of climate change through its other activities instead of the courts.

“The organization had an opportunity to settle with Mann to avoid further expenditure of time and resources on the matter,” Holle wrote.

Though Mann said the Frontier Centre was smart to retract and apologize, he also pointed out that the case was about untrue allegations of misconduct, not the group’s stance on climate change, making it an outlier.

"Making false and malicious allegations about a scientist is illegal," Mann said by email. "The law is the appropriate recourse, and often an effective one, as this latest episode demonstrates."

Climate scientists should be challenging climate disinformation publicly more often, said University of Calgary climatologist Shawn Marshall, "but it is a matter of picking our battles." Scientists aren't marketers, Marshall added, but now find themselves in the business of convincing the public their findings are real — an especially difficult task in the polarized realm of social media.

One example played out in real-time Saturday when Milton MP and deputy Conservative party leader Lisa Raitt — who has a master's degree in environmental biochemical toxicology — tweeted a link to a Financial Post opinion piece that falsely claimed, against scientific consensus and a report released by the federal government in April, that there's "no solid connection between climate change and the major indicators of extreme weather." The story was authored by an economist who does not believe in climate change.

Soon after, climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe replied.

"Hi Lisa — I am a climate scientist," tweeted Hayhoe, a Canadian working at Texas Tech University, linking to YouTube videos explaining the climate crisis. "The article you quote above is incorrect and dangerously misleading. For the sake of our shared country, please have the courage and the integrity to update your understanding."

Hayhoe shared several more links and invited Raitt to reach out if she had questions. Raitt deleted the original tweet in short order and shared one of Hayhoe's, saying it was "important to read this as well."

Well I’ve learned my lesson in tweeting anything about climate change. I’m going to be transparent & let you know I’m deleting the earlier tweets. I’m not the one to fight with on this because like most I believe that emissions cause climate change and we should reduce emissions

"Well I’ve learned my lesson in tweeting anything about climate change," Raitt posted later the same day. "I’m not the one to fight with on this because like most I believe that emissions cause climate change and we should reduce emissions."

Hayhoe replied with a thank you: “If all our politicians were like this, we would be in a much better place!” she tweeted.

Most people who deny climate change do so because they've received information that lines up with their beliefs from a source they trust, Hayhoe told National Observer.

"It's not a case of people doing this largely for nefarious reasons, for selfish reasons, for greedy reasons, for evil reasons," she said.

In an interview with National Observer Wednesday, Raitt said the original tweet wasn't an attempt at a climate change-denying political statement — she was sharing an article she'd read, and wasn't aware of the author's background. Once Hayhoe and others pointed out the clash between the article and scientific consensus, she realized she "didn't want to be a lightning rod on this topic" and deleted it, Raitt said.

"(Hayhoe's) tweet spoke to me, because it was clearly somebody who was giving me the benefit of the doubt that I wasn't trying to make a political statement," Raitt said. The two later had a conversation in private messages and made plans to meet the next time Hayhoe is in Ontario.

The science of attributing extreme weather events to climate change is an emerging one, and Raitt said she's just learning about it now. However, she said she "fundamentally" believes in climate change and the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions — something she then took flack over from climate change deniers on Twitter.

"Me being caught in this crossfire between two different streams of thought on whether or not extreme weather is a result of climate change, that's not an argument I am educated enough to have," Raitt said. "I wasn't going to win on either side of this."

Earlier in his career, Marshall said, he used to engage more with online climate-change denial, something he's since given up on. "I used to try to respond to it and give proper sources to support the truth and facts, but then they just came back with more rant and often it turned to harassment and bad language."

Marshall also participated in two public debates with representatives of Friends of Science, a climate change-denying nonprofit, but said he worries it didn't help — climate change deniers can confuse the facts with false information, while scientists must stick to research that might be difficult for non-scientists to fully understand.

"On the other side there's no rules," he said. "It's hard to win against that."

Instead of fighting with climate change deniers directly, Marshall said he now prefers to spend time arming his students with the information they need to combat climate myths.

"I'm feeling defeated," Marshall said. "I feel like we have to fight this in a different way than having arguments with people who don't want to have a discussion."

Another climate change-related legal dispute happened in 2009, when scientist Andrew Weaver, who’s now a B.C. MLA and leader of the province’s Green party, sued the National Post over a series of four articles he said attacked his character. The articles also expressed skepticism about climate change.

In April 2017, a B.C. judge overturned a previous ruling, which was in Weaver’s favour, and ordered a new trial. Weaver’s lawyer didn’t immediately respond to a request for an update, and Weaver said in a phone interview that he couldn’t comment on the case.

A spokesperson for the Post’s parent company, Postmedia, declined to comment as the matter is still before the courts. One of the reporters named in the suit, Kevin Libin, was promoted on Monday to become executive politics editor for the entire Postmedia chain, including local dailies like the Edmonton Journal and Ottawa Citizen.

Climate change court cases remain rare — the best way to combat garden-variety denialism is to try to understand where the person is coming from on an individual basis, Weaver told National Observer. That can allow you to make arguments that appeal to the person’s values, rather than making them feel attacked.

"I don't think it helps to belittle,” Weaver said. “People talk all over each other. Unless you know where someone's coming from you don't know how to address their arguments.”

Though public figures rarely, if ever, back down on climate change denial publicly, Hayhoe said she continues to try to have those conversations for the sake of others who are reading along and might be unsure what to believe.

"Every single one of us, what we do in areas that we don't know too much about is we look to (thought leaders) to form our opinion," she said.

"I do them more for other people who want to know what is the truth."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...-climate-change-deniers-court-they-apologized

Why do the right wingers not take something like this into account rather than persist with the views of the "Climate Change Deniers"? At least Scientist Katherine Hayhoe drove some common sense into Skeptics like Conservative Deputy Lisa Raitt. So canada man do go and try to sway Lisa Raitt's 180 Degree opinions on Climate Change. Okay!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,491
5,675
113
That Rebel dude's claim on numerous occasions about Alberta's "Ethically Manufactured" Oil is total BS, that only the right wingers would buy:

False Alberta claim: Alberta’s oil is morally clean.

“Alberta’s oil is ethical and among the most ethically regulated industries in the world,” trumpets former journalist, now B.C.-based oil and mining advocate Stewart Muir in the Globe and Mail.

There is light oil and heavy oil, but no refinery has ever begged for ethical oil.

That’s because it doesn’t exist. If Alberta has done such a “moral” job of regulating its resources, what happened to its rainy day fund?

And if the industry has behaved so ethically, why will Alberta and Canadian taxpayers likely be on the hook for cleaning up and decommissioning $260-billion worth of abandoned wells, pipelines and gas plants?

How ethical is it to allow an industry to set aside funds of $1.6 billion to cover hundreds of billions of dollars in liabilities?

New research says that “carbon dioxide emission intensities for oil sands facilities are 13 to 123 per cent larger than those estimated using publicly available data.”

Is that an ethical development?
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2019/05/21/Pipeline-Myths-Albertans-Tell-Themselves/

He is there to harass Greta Thundberg and kept on making false claims that she is "interfering" in the elections. Jezz!!
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
170
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A story in yesterday's Globe and Mail said Greta and her fellow protesters are "rallying for a Canadian Green New Deal, a plan for a transition to 100-per-cent renewable energy by 2030...".

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...r-international-climate-tour-to-alberta-with/

If Greta and her fellow demonstrators actually knew anything about "the science," they would know that getting to 100-per-cent renewable energy in 11 years' time is impossible. In fact, the idea is insane.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,178
2,614
113
Toronto, Ontario
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