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Wonder how this would change things if it happened in Canada.

whiteshaft

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Mar 15, 2014
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Room 38DD
Part of the article posted by Kugel2 says "Having planned to arm themselves and ignore the resident's demand to leave his property, the defendants are responsible for placing their accomplice in danger".

Yes I am wondering how crime rates would evolve if there is an identical law in existence here in Canada?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
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If it happened in Canada the homeowner would be charged with murder and attempted murder.

On a personal note,I fully support the homeowner in shooting the little criminals.
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
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If it happened in Canada the homeowner would be charged with murder and attempted murder.

On a personal note,I fully support the homeowner in shooting the little criminals.
Problem with that is that the little criminals are all going to start killing the home owners, they will face murder charges any way, I'm sure they will evolve like the Mob and live no witnesses.

Toronto's murder investigation clearance is 51% and continues to go down.

Stupid law that is based on Moral Panic.

This kids all had extensive criminal records, how do kids get so lost at a young age?
 

Pinkpanther80

Active member
Aug 4, 2019
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If it happened in Canada the homeowner would be charged with murder and attempted murder.

On a personal note,I fully support the homeowner in shooting the little criminals.
In Canada you have the right to protect yourself in your own house just like in the states so your comment makes no sense unless you lured them into your house with intent to shoot them then you would be charged. We have the same rights to defend ourselves and our property from thieves and invaders.
 

hamermill

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2001
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In a place far, far away
In Canada you have the right to protect yourself in your own house just like in the states so your comment makes no sense unless you lured them into your house with intent to shoot them then you would be charged. We have the same rights to defend ourselves and our property from thieves and invaders.

Actually you don't. Canada doesn’t have any Stand Your Ground Laws. That being said come at me in my home and chances are things won’t turn out too well.

Here in Canada you would be charged for murdering the thieves, found not guilty after spending a fortune defending yourself, then the justice system would be labeled as biased. Does that sound familiar?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Actually you don't. Canada doesn’t have any Stand Your Ground Laws. That being said come at me in my home and chances are things won’t turn out too well.

Here in Canada you would be charged for murdering the thieves, found not guilty after spending a fortune defending yourself, then the justice system would be labeled as biased. Does that sound familiar?
I'm not a lawyer and I assume you're not either. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

All common law jurisdictions allow property to be defended forcibly; Stand Your Ground Laws are one way American gun owners have gotten that principle written into statutes, and gets them off the hook for shooting the guy whose car went off the road and was only coming onto their property to ask for help. If they thought he was a dangerous tresspasser, and didn't stop when they said to, then SYG says it's reasonable to shoot. And kill. Too bad if the accident-victim dies, but the shooter may face no charges.

Or he may be charged, and only get to cite SYG, once he finally gets his day in Court. And course in the next state, a mile away, he might well be charged with some sort of wrongful death. Stand-your-ground laws are not universal nor uniform, American criminal laws vary widely state by state, and they all try to deal with a death that should not have happened. As does our criminal law.

Canada's nation-wide Criminal Code does explicitly allow a person to defend themselves and others, and defend their property with reasonable force. Stand Your Ground defines reasonable as I said above. We do that in Courtrooms. Quoting Bill C-26 (S.C. 2012 c. 9) Reforms to Self-Defence and Defence of Property: Technical Guide for Practitioners "In Gunning, the defence of property was held to be available to charge of careless use of a firearm."

Presumably what you referred to by "sound familiar" was the recent Canadian case where the property-owner shot and killed the trespasser and was found not guilty by a Court. Just as would have been likely in the US States that do not have have SYG laws. The result's the same there and here, the man defending his property committed no crime, even though that defence cost someone's life. Seems to me an appropriately serious way to decide about anybody's sudden death at the hands of another.

Even SYG States treat deliberate violent death as a serious matter of law, and like us, allow for defence of self and property. They just decide the matter by a different bureaucratic procedure. Hardly worth discussing, unless you think such deaths should be of no concern.

Charging the victim's accomplices with his pre-meditated (1st) murder is curious and unusual, considering it was the home-owner who shot him, and no one actually intended anyone to die that night. But that's all just a Police Chief holding a news conference so far, not even a mention of the District Attorney who will have to prosecute. And BTW, we Canucks also have similar Criminal Code provisions, making accomplices share the guilt for criminal outcomes of their misdeeds.

But that's beyond SYG, which seemed to be all you were interested in. Hopefully we're done with that.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Kind of reminds me of this one....armed guy tries to rob a pizza hut. Armed Pizza hut shoots and kills him. Robbers mommy says he shouldn't have been shot 'cuz Pizza Hut employees aren't allowed to be armed at work. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...he-employee-who-shot-him-arrested-for-murder/
In both these US cases the 'defending' owner faced no charges for killing the intruder. We knew that, MSM published both unhappy stories — your article, three years ago. We know this shit happens a lot more in the gun-crazy Excited States than it does elsewhere. Were you trying to make a different point with your post?
 
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