Toronto Escorts

Muslim nations are defending China as it cracks down on Muslims

Charlemagne

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2017
15,451
2,484
113
Muslim nations are defending China as it cracks down on Muslims, shattering any myths of Islamic solidarity

Analysis by Tamara Qiblawi, CNN

Updated at 4:21 AM ET, Wed July 17, 2019

UK warns Iran of potential 'serious consequences'

Beirut, Lebanon (CNN) — Last week, 22 mostly Western countries launched the world's first major collective challenge to China's crackdown on Uyghur Muslims and other minorities.

In a joint statement to the High Commissioner of the United Nations' Human Rights Council, the nations criticized Beijing for what they described as "disturbing reports of large-scale arbitrary detentions" and "widespread surveillance and restrictions."

A day later, 37 other countries jumped to Beijing's defense, with their own letter praising China's human rights record, and dismissing the reported detention of up to two million Muslims in western China's Xinjiang region. Nearly half of the signatories were Muslim-majority nations, including Pakistan, Qatar, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia, according to the Chinese government.

"Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers," the letter said, according to Reuters, which saw a copy of the letter. The letter went on to say that there had been no terrorist attacks in the past three years in the region, and that the people there were happy, fulfilled and secure.

The language in the letter echoed previous claims made by China, which has denied allegations of torture or forced political indoctrination in Xinjiang and said that the camps were "vocational training centers" designed to fight terrorism and combat Islamic extremism.

But reports of China's abuse of Muslims in the Xinjiang region are rampant. Many Uyghurs and other Muslim ethnic minorities are believed to have been hauled into conditions that activists call re-education camps. Accounts given to CNN by former detainees describe being forced into the camps under the threat of violence. Detainees who have since fled China say they were forced to renounce Islam while pledging loyalty to China's ruling Communist party, according to a report by the Council of Foreign Relations.

So why are some Muslim-majority countries coming to Beijing's defense?

"I was surprised that (Muslim countries) would put it in writing and put their names on it and sign a document to actually praise China," Azeem Ibrahim, a director at the DC-based Center for Global Policy, told CNN. "It's one thing to keep quiet and abstain. It's another thing to overtly support (the policies) when there was no need for them to do so."

"I think that's indicative of the influence and power that China has," he said.

Looking to the future

A few months after the October 2018 murder of Jamal Khashoggi at Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was still struggling to contain the fallout.

The US Congress was up in arms over the Saudi journalist's killing. Pressure was mounting across the Western world to shun the young prince, and MBS, as he is known, appeared to briefly retreat from the global spotlight. In early 2018, bin Salman embarked on a weeks-long tour of Western countries, meeting with business leaders including as Amazon's Jeff Bezos. But official trips to the West were few and far between following Khashoggi's death, and the normally active Saudi Center for International Communications was sending fewer and fewer press releases about changes in the kingdom.

In February 2019, MBS decided to head east for a tour through Asia, and China rolled out the red carpet. During his trip, bin Salman -- the de facto ruler of the kingdom that has long seen itself as being at the vanguard of the Muslim world -- appeared to publicly defend his hosts over their treatment of the Uyghurs. According to the state-run Xinhua news agency, MBS said that he supported Beijing's right "to take counter-terrorism and de-extremism measures to safeguard national security."

China is Saudi Arabia's biggest trading partner. Seen through an economic lens, the Crown Prince's backing of Beijing amid his own PR quagmire -- even if China is indeed systematically abusing the human rights of Muslims in its own country -- is perhaps not completely surprising. Economic interests reign supreme, and political, religious and ideological differences proved no barrier to doing business during the trip. Other Muslim states now appear to have made the same calculation.

"These countries are coming to the realization that the United States, particularly in its current form, is not a very reliable ally," said Ibrahim. "China is significantly much more reliable for the long-term, particularly with the political fallout in countries like Saudi Arabia where the leadership has been ostracized," he added, in a reference to the fallout from the Khashoggi murder.

The myth of Muslim solidarity

For decades, some Muslim leaders tried to adopt a motto of transnational solidarity on some issues, from the Palestinian cause to the plight of Muslims in Kosovo. But those causes often were "very convenient for them politically," Ibrahim said -- and with the Uyghurs, the political cost is too high. "I don't think there's ever been such a thing as Muslim solidarity," Ibrahim added. "And I think this particular issue has only highlighted that."

In recent years, global issues involving the persecution of Muslim populations have been just as likely to divide the Islamic world. Whereas Iran supported Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's repression of the country's uprising, Saudi Arabia and its allies supported the rebels, including some of its most radical elements. In Iraq, Iran, Yemen, and elsewhere, Muslim countries have been at odds, often to catastrophic effect.

On China, many Muslim countries appear to be singing the same tune. "China's treatment of parts of its Muslim population is not a partisan issue in the Arab world," said HA Hellyer, senior associate fellow at Royal United Services Institute in London and the Atlantic Council in Washington, DC.

"Even if they disagree on a whole slew of other issues, such as the (Gulf Arab) crisis, Syria, Yemen, Iran and so forth," said Hellyer, "no Muslim leader in the Arab world or the wider region, including Turkey, seems to have much compunction about lining up alongside Beijing."

As one of the world's largest lenders, China wields formidable influence. In Pakistan, typically a champion of Muslim struggles worldwide, criticizing China is taboo, according to Ibrahim. Beijing's economic juggernaut has bailed the country out on several occasions. Other poor Muslim-majority states -- such as Turkmenistan and Tajikistan, which rely heavily on Chinese trade -- are also signatories to Friday's letter.

The United Arab Emirates and Qatar, which are small but rich and have outsized global clout, could have served as a minority voice of Muslim dissent against Chinese policies . Yet they too signed the letter of support; perhaps motivated by the greater principle at stake.

By firing back at the international community's attempt to challenge its policy in Xinjiang, and turning a blind eye to the evidence of rampant abuse, China's partners are also doubling down on one of their usual refrains: sovereignty is sacrosanct, particularly when human rights are involved. Many of the signatories, including the UAE and Qatar, have been accused of committing their own share of human rights violations.

"Authoritarian leaders in general ... have an interest in upholding this idea that states ought to do what they want within their own borders," said Hellyer. "Within their borders it's a matter of sovereignty."

By defending China over the Uyghur issue, Ibrahim said the Muslim signatories had lent invaluable credibility to Beijing at a time of intense scrutiny of its human rights record.

"(Muslim countries) are complicit," he said. "They are providing cover for this persecution."

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/17/asia/uyghurs-muslim-countries-china-intl/index.html
 

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
6,833
2,839
113
Interesting how much power China wields across the world as it simultaneously abuses its own citizens. I have to believe that this will not be sustainable for China, though.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
Interesting article. Anybody who knows anything knows that the PRC is a master at geopolitics and the U.S. (led by lefties) is an amateur. There are many reasons and a couple have already been covered in the article. Here are three more reasons.

1) The PRC is not subject to the "white man's burden". It never invaded any ME Muslim countries.

2) The PRC is not burdened by the need to protect Israel.

3) The PRC (like other Muslim countries) feel no obligation to accept Muslim refugees. The PRC doesn't give a damn if they are accused of "Islamophobia" (that is a lefty white man's invention).

I will add more comments if this thread progresses.

P.S. Don't believe what western liberals tell you. The standard of living in China has never been higher and is rising.
 

Charlemagne

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2017
15,451
2,484
113
Interesting article. Anybody who knows anything knows that the PRC is a master at geopolitics and the U.S. (led by lefties) is an amateur. There are many reasons and a couple have already been covered in the article. Here are three more reasons.

1) The PRC is not subject to the "white man's burden". It never invaded any ME Muslim countries.

2) The PRC is not burdened by the need to protect Israel.

3) The PRC (like other Muslim countries) feel no obligation to accept Muslim refugees. The PRC doesn't give a damn if they are accused of "Islamophobia" (that is a lefty white man's invention).

I will add more comments if this thread progresses.

P.S. Don't believe what western liberals tell you. The standard of living in China has never been higher and is rising.
Yet liberals seem to be more educated than people like you.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,469
5,655
113
Interesting article. Anybody who knows anything knows that the PRC is a master at geopolitics and the U.S. (led by lefties) is an amateur. There are many reasons and a couple have already been covered in the article. Here are three more reasons.

1) The PRC is not subject to the "white man's burden". It never invaded any ME Muslim countries.

2) The PRC is not burdened by the need to protect Israel.

3) The PRC (like other Muslim countries) feel no obligation to accept Muslim refugees. The PRC doesn't give a damn if they are accused of "Islamophobia" (that is a lefty white man's invention).

I will add more comments if this thread progresses.

P.S. Don't believe what western liberals tell you. The standard of living in China has never been higher and is rising.
So trump who leads the US is a "leftie"?? LOL!!
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
58
48
hornyville
Interesting article. Anybody who knows anything knows that the PRC is a master at geopolitics and the U.S. (led by lefties) is an amateur. There are many reasons and a couple have already been covered in the article. Here are three more reasons.

1) The PRC is not subject to the "white man's burden". It never invaded any ME Muslim countries.

2) The PRC is not burdened by the need to protect Israel.

3) The PRC (like other Muslim countries) feel no obligation to accept Muslim refugees. The PRC doesn't give a damn if they are accused of "Islamophobia" (that is a lefty white man's invention).

I will add more comments if this thread progresses.

P.S. Don't believe what western liberals tell you. The standard of living in China has never been higher and is rising.
There could be another reason.

But before we get to that, the Chinese like the Jews, and Jews tend to look favourably at the Chinese because China was the only country in history to never prosecute the Jews. So I do not believe the Chinese are out to screw over the Jewish people directly or inadvertently.

The libtards do not understand the world.

Sure, a Muslim country may not like the heavy handedness of the Chinese against the Muslim Uigyur minority.

Now, put yourself into the shoes of a Muslim leader, of a Middle Eastern country.

What he sees is a country that is able to control their Muslim population. They will monitor the situation closely, and if it works, they can then purchase the same equipment and IP for their own countries to control their own Muslim populations.

The best part is they get to buy these systems at the Chinese price!

The libtards just do not view the world this way.

For a Muslim leader of a Muslim country, what the Chinese are doing is appealing on some level. You know they want it.

:pizza:
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
The libtards do not understand the world.

The libtards just do not view the world this way.
I'll use the more polite term and call them liberal lefties. Yes, they are naive and live in a cocoon where they tell each how handsome and smart they all are.

Take for example, their "argument" to stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can easily get all the arms they need from Russia and/or the PRC with no pre-conditions on their use. At least we can impose some pre-conditions and some influence on how they are use.
 

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
6,833
2,839
113
I'll use the more polite term and call them liberal lefties. Yes, they are naive and live in a cocoon where they tell each how handsome and smart they all are.
It’s true. Stop Hating.



Take for example, their "argument" to stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can easily get all the arms they need from Russia and/or the PRC with no pre-conditions on their use. At least we can impose some pre-conditions and some influence on how they are use.
LOL...Sure.

Let the Chinese and Russians be the Saudis new BFF’s. No good has ever come from aligning ourselves with thugs and criminals.
 

whiteshaft

Been Around
Mar 15, 2014
1,783
251
83
Room 38DD
Interesting article. Anybody who knows anything knows that the PRC is a master at geopolitics and the U.S. (led by lefties) is an amateur. There are many reasons and a couple have already been covered in the article. Here are three more reasons.

1) The PRC is not subject to the "white man's burden". It never invaded any ME Muslim countries.

2) The PRC is not burdened by the need to protect Israel.

3) The PRC (like other Muslim countries) feel no obligation to accept Muslim refugees. The PRC doesn't give a damn if they are accused of "Islamophobia" (that is a lefty white man's invention).

I will add more comments if this thread progresses.

P.S. Don't believe what western liberals tell you. The standard of living in China has never been higher and is rising.
Interesting view Dart!:very_drunk:
 

Zaibetter

Banned
Mar 27, 2016
4,284
1
0
Muslim countries say shit because ...first ...they kill each other most of the time anyways and China will fuck them in the ass if they mess with them. Amazing how the Terb "brotherhood" is quite on this one...so hypocritical.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Muslim countries say shit because ...first ...they kill each other most of the time anyways and China will fuck them in the ass if they mess with them. Amazing how the Terb "brotherhood" is quite on this one...so hypocritical.
I take it that it hasn't yet sunk in that most people and nations in this century operate on levels other than religion. You can catch up.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
most people and nations in this century operate on levels other than religion
Islamic countries are governed based on their interpretation of the Qu'ran. Not aware of any secular Islamic countries. Maybe they take a more pragmatic view in their external relationships or maybe not.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Islamic countries are governed based on their interpretation of the Qu'ran. Not aware of any secular Islamic countries. Maybe they take a more pragmatic view in their external relationships or maybe not.
Bosnia. Until just recently Turkey was more officially secular and non-Islamic than the USA is secular and non-Christian. Do you imagine Egypt revolted and threw out the Muslim Brotherhood to become more Islamic? Not to mention that the OP's 'complaint' seems to be that his 'Muslim' countries are behaving too secularly for his preconceptions.

Those aren't the only candidates. Whatever your first sentence may mean to you, it conveys almost nothing to me but ignorant prejudice. Without some objective criteria backing it, a serious answer's impossible.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
Do you imagine Egypt revolted and threw out the Muslim Brotherhood to become more Islamic?
Question: Are Egyptians still practicing FGM for religious reasons?

"FGM is practised predominantly within certain Muslim societies"
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Question: Are Egyptians still practicing FGM for religious reasons?

"FGM is practised predominantly within certain Muslim societies"
Question: Any, many, some or all Egyptians? What authority determines what reasons they have, and whether they're religious. Or not? Are you still beating your wife?

"Who are you quoting?" in your follow-up

Let's try to keep the debate to at least a Junior high school level.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
Question: Any, many, some or all Egyptians? What authority determines what reasons they have, and whether they're religious. Or not?
Over 27 million Egyptian women have been subjected to FGM. Will you deny that it is for religious reasons? If not religion, why is it done?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Over 27 million Egyptian women have been subjected to FGM. Will you deny that it is for religious reasons? If not religion, why is it done?
It's common to cite a reputable source for such stats. If you have one.

If it's widely practised, even 'popular', that doesn't maker it 'religious'. For instance, a larger percentage Canadian males have had their genitals cut without religion being involved in the slightest. You dragged FGM into this thread to assert there are no secular Islamic countries, it's up to you to make the connection with your topic to show us Egypt is 'religious'.

Not to mention that you've ducked the matter of what authority decides the reasons for FGM are or are not 'religious'. Check Wikipedia: Islamic scholars decry it, there's no mention of it in the Qur'an, it predates Islam in Africa, which is the only part of the world where it is widely practised, and there it is so prevalent that even some Christian communities practise it.

But you'd serve your argument better by looking for evidence that there are no secular Muslim countries. While you're on Wikipedia check their list of "Secular states with majority Muslim populations:"
Albania[39]
Azerbaijan[40]
Bangladesh
Bosnia-Herzegovina[41]
Burkina Faso[42]
Chad[43]
Côte d'Ivoire[44]
Guinea[45]
Guinea-Bissau[46]
Indonesia (except Aceh)[47][48]
Kazakhstan[49]
Kosovo[50][51]
Kyrgyzstan[52]
Mali[53]
Niger[54]
Northern Cyprus[55]
Senegal[56]
Sierra Leone[57]
Tajikistan[58]
Turkey[59]
Turkmenistan[60]
Uzbekistan[61]
West Bank[62]

Noting that it includes the world's largest Muslim Nation.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,061
11,167
113
While you're on Wikipedia check their list of "Secular states with majority Muslim populations:"
I suspect that all or almost all the countries listed are "secular" in name only. They might be considered "secular" by Muslim standards but that is a low threshold.

Take Azerbaijan as an example. 97% of its population is Muslim. It has also experienced problems with democracy, human rights and press freedom.

"A resolution adopted by the European Parliament in September 2015 described Azerbaijan as "having suffered the greatest decline in democratic governance in all of Eurasia over the past ten years," noting as well that its dialogue with the country on human rights has "not made any substantial progress."[129"
 
Toronto Escorts