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Woman Loses Driver's Licence and has Car Impounded for Drinking in Backyard

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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"Each had a drink"- at the pub which doesn't necessities guilt. How she was planning to get home is immaterial. Maybe she was planning on staying over or taking a cab. Since she continued drinking at her destination, the "roadside" test result is a speculation in relation to her actual alcohol level while she was actually driving. Hence, the title is correct.
The title I objected to plainly said her car was impounded for backyard drinking. I suspect you're trying to address the Sun's headline which said she got off. As far as I can make out from the poor reporting, that's because the BC Superintendant of Motor Vehicles refused to proceed. Not beccause a judge ruled on the law.
 

GameBoy27

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oldjones

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Which is what happened!
You already said the car[sic] was not impounded for backyard drinking, and offered an accurate title "… impounded after backyard drinking". What happened since, that you're back to the original?

Thanks for the links to significantly better reporting by Global and the Nanaimo paper. Unfortunately Global didn't say what charges she faced in court, or what she and her lawyer said to have them overturned. The Nanaimo account covered that best, saying the lawyer, Ms. Teryn "…made that case [presumably asking to give a second sample, but being refused] to the adjudicator who reviews roadside prohibitions and had Lowrie’s driving prohibition cancelled and all fees and charges reversed and her licence restored." We note Global and the Sun said she was still out of pocket.

So now that the details and particulars of this one case are all available — sorta — what are you trying to say you do or do or don't like and want changed about this law?
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Much better. Your Sun (Toronto) link was just another driver-story, not the legal coverage you claimed
LOL......both articles come to essentially the same conclusion.

Just admit you havent been following the latest DUI laws lately, and then we can move on
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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LOL......both articles come to essentially the same conclusion.

Just admit you havent been following the latest DUI laws lately, and then we can move on
I conclude on my own, whatever any media may say. Just like you. You're welcome to move on anywhere anytime. It isn't a contest, no one's keeping you.
 

TeeJay

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Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
Most of the replies in this thread are absurd and either you guys cant read or are trying to troll

Woman goes to a place that serves alcohol
Multiple witnesses phoned police saying they saw her get in a pickup and DRIVE away

Police contacted her and found her at another location (her home)
Police know she was drinking at the bar and at home

They breath test her, and she obviously had a very high score so they took her car away



The police tell you to dial 911 whenever you observe a driver you think is impaired on the roads and police will hunt the driver down, even if they are at home (or friends home)

The officers told Lowrie they had received an anonymous complaint that she had consumed “multiple alcoholic beverages” before getting into a pickup and driving away from the restaurant at 4:53 p.m.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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There certainly are problems and issues with this new law, but this story doesn't illustrate them very well. Alcohol and driving offences are still far too common,so understandably police enforcement practices of those laws are often just barely average. They've seen too many stupid drunks. Now they're trying to learn how the new law works, just like the drivers.

As far as we can tell from all the bad reporting: She got off, because she asked to blow again and the police did not allow her to. Nothing to do with backyards.

As with pretty much every other such story, instead of fretting the technicalities the one sure defence for any driver is easy. Do Not Drink And Drive. Ever.
 

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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There certainly are problems and issues with this new law, but this story doesn't illustrate them very well. Alcohol and driving offences are still far too common,so understandably police enforcement practices of those laws are often just barely average. They've seen too many stupid drunks. Now they're trying to learn how the new law works, just like the drivers.

As far as we can tell from all the bad reporting: She got off, because she asked to blow again and the police did not allow her to. Nothing to do with backyards.

As with pretty much every other such story, instead of fretting the technicalities the one sure defence for any driver is easy. Do Not Drink And Drive. Ever.
The fact remains, this law gives LE the ability to suspend your licence, impound your vehicle and leave you thousands out of pocket even though you didn't drink and drive, but had a few drinks after you got home. There's so much wrong with this law I don't even know where to begin.
 

Uncharted

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Aug 8, 2013
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Regardless of how this story was reported, it doesn't change the fact that these new Drunk driving laws are in direct contradiction to the Charter when it comes to unwarranted search and seizure by police.

Lawyers from around the country have been saying this since before it came into effect, the fact that no one has challenged it yet before the supreme court is the only thing preventing this law from being treated like the steaming pile of horse shit that it is.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Regardless of how this story was reported, it doesn't change the fact that these new Drunk driving laws are in direct contradiction to the Charter when it comes to unwarranted search and seizure by police.

Lawyers from around the country have been saying this since before it came into effect, the fact that no one has challenged it yet before the supreme court is the only thing preventing this law from being treated like the steaming pile of horse shit that it is.
The Charter says we have "the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure". 'Unwarranted' would be something different, like without a warrant. Since the law specifically says the police are authorized to search you by way of demanding a breath sample, for as much as two hours after you drove, I'd imagine a judge would say that counts as their 'warrant'.

On the face of it I'd say that two hours thing is unreasonable, and it certainly opens a hugely wide door for other reasonable ways you perhaps got that BAC reading without ever driving with it. And the police do have to prove you did drive.

It is particularly unreasonable since the penalty seizures happen by administrative fiat — not a proper trial — as a consequence, so even to present that argument and evidence requires the driver to initiate legal action, instead of just showing up to answer a charge and present their case. Still, the accused did win, and the bad policing was exposed.

As for the actual driving offence, for her and all of us: Don't imagine you can beat the charge on a technicality like blowing 0.01 below the limit, or having another drink after you got home. Just don't drive if you drink. And don't make that decision on the day, unless you'd be happy facing a judge who'd had a few before deciding your case. You're just as bad a judge if you wait until you're on your way home to decide, "I'm OK to drive".

In the immortal words of many a father, "Shoulda thoughta that before you left!"
 

fuzzybunny

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Apr 8, 2008
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The article is wrong in stating the police can knock on your door and require a breathalizer.

I'm not familiar with the details of the case: police both lie and fail to comprehend the law themselves all the time, so it's quite possible it happened as described. but unless they saw you get out of the car, they can't demand a breathalyser for exactly this reason.

See https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-46/royal-assent

The two hour number is basically just setting time lines for alcohol levels. But the bill specifically address this situation:

(5) No person commits an offence under paragraph (1)**(b) if
(a) they consumed alcohol after ceasing to operate the conveyance;
(b) after ceasing to operate the conveyance, they had no reasonable expectation that they would be required to provide a sample of breath or blood; and
(c) their alcohol consumption is consistent with their blood alcohol concentration as determined in accordance with subsection 320.**31(1) or (2) and with their having had, at the time when they were operating the conveyance, a blood alcohol concentration that was less than 80 mg of alcohol in 100 mL of blood.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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The article is wrong in stating the police can knock on your door and require a breathalizer.

I'm not familiar with the details of the case: police both lie and fail to comprehend the law themselves all the time, so it's quite possible it happened as described. but unless they saw you get out of the car, they can't demand a breathalyser for exactly this reason.

See https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-46/royal-assent

The two hour number is basically just setting time lines for alcohol levels. But the bill specifically address this situation:

(5) No person commits an offence under paragraph (1)**(b) if
(a) they consumed alcohol after ceasing to operate the conveyance;
(b) after ceasing to operate the conveyance, they had no reasonable expectation that they would be required to provide a sample of breath or blood; and
(c) their alcohol consumption is consistent with their blood alcohol concentration as determined in accordance with subsection 320.**31(1) or (2) and with their having had, at the time when they were operating the conveyance, a blood alcohol concentration that was less than 80 mg of alcohol in 100 mL of blood.
Here's another section from your reference:

Testing for presence of alcohol or a drug
(2) If a peace officer has reasonable grounds to suspect that a person has alcohol or a drug in their body and that the person has, within the preceding three hours, operated a motor vehicle or vessel, operated or assisted in the operation of an aircraft or railway equipment or had the care or control of a motor vehicle, a vessel, an aircraft or railway equipment, the peace officer may, by demand, require the person to comply with the requirements of either or both of paragraphs (a) and (c), in the case of a drug, or with the requirements of either or both of paragraphs (a) and (b), in the case of alcohol:


I underlined the bit I think the officers were relying on when they showed up demanding a breath sample. Since they had received phone tips that she drove away from the bar where she had been drinking, I'd imagine they thought that gave them the 'reasonable grounds ' as described. Nothing in the media accounts suggests any authority had any problems with that aspect of their actions.
 

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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Here's another section from your reference:

Testing for presence of alcohol or a drug
(2) If a peace officer has reasonable grounds to suspect that a person has alcohol or a drug in their body and that the person has, within the preceding three hours, operated a motor vehicle or vessel, operated or assisted in the operation of an aircraft or railway equipment or had the care or control of a motor vehicle, a vessel, an aircraft or railway equipment, the peace officer may, by demand, require the person to comply with the requirements of either or both of paragraphs (a) and (c), in the case of a drug, or with the requirements of either or both of paragraphs (a) and (b), in the case of alcohol:


I underlined the bit I think the officers were relying on when they showed up demanding a breath sample. Since they had received phone tips that she drove away from the bar where she had been drinking, I'd imagine they thought that gave them the 'reasonable grounds ' as described. Nothing in the media accounts suggests any authority had any problems with that aspect of their actions.
The fact remains, it's entirely possible she had but one drink with food over the course of an hour before she drove home. Had stopped her in her vehicle, there's no way she would've blown over 0.05. The problem is, they tested her after she had been home for a couple of hours, consuming alcohol in the back yard. And that's a big problem.

We can't assume she had several drinks at the bar and drove home with a BAC level above 0.05 based on the word of an anonymous caller.

Catch the drunk drivers, take away their cars, throw them in jail, whatever. But not when you show up at their house 2 hours after they've been driving and drinking in their back yard.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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The fact remains, it's entirely possible she had but one drink with food over the course of an hour before she drove home. Had stopped her in her vehicle, there's no way she would've blown over 0.05. The problem is, they tested her after she had been home for a couple of hours, consuming alcohol in the back yard. And that's a big problem.

We can't assume she had several drinks at the bar and drove home with a BAC level above 0.05 based on the word of an anonymous caller.

Catch the drunk drivers, take away their cars, throw them in jail, whatever. But not when you show up at their house 2 hours after they've been driving and drinking in their back yard.
I agree with you, and no one did "assume she had several drinks at the bar and drove home with a BAC level above 0.05 based on the word of an anonymous caller". However, that call was all the officers needed to lawfully demand a breath sample from the woman in the news article. Not that it matters, but she herself admitted she had been drinking and that she drove. So both facts and law say the officers did right. No one assumed anything about her BAC either, they administered the test, took the measurement and laid a charge because it exceeded the permissible amount. Facts, not assumptions.

As to the unfairness of the law you began and ended with, fuzzybunny quoted the wording in the law that speaks to that issue, and which could have gotten her off, but none of the reports suggest that she or her lawyer relied on either of those paragraphs when they had the finding overturned and the penalty reversed.

The basic principle the law's trying to address is: Do not drink and drive. Easy, obvious and no hardship for anyone. But it is written from the opposite point of view. Here's how much you can do legally, and here are the lines you must stay inside: You can drink all you want as long as you do not drive with a BAC number over the limit. You gotta blow when you're asked if you're driving, or finished driving a short while ago. That BAC won't count if you drank after you finished driving, but not if you saw the cops coming and chugged a quick couple to skew the result.
 
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