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"A 6th Grader Should Know America’s Foreign Policy Is Ridiculous"

danmand

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"A 6th Grader Should Know America’s Foreign Policy Is Ridiculous"

Sun, 07/14/2019 - 22:30

Authored by Bill Rice, Jr.

Policies which can ensure peace or ignite wars are important. Given this, one might think more Americans would critically examine the basic assumptions which form the basis of our nation’s foreign policy.

As best I can tell, only three such assumptions or premises exist:

To defend America and its borders, our government must posses the world’s strongest military. It should also not be reticent about using - or threatening to use - said military.
The freedoms Americans cherish are fragile, and bad actors are plotting to steal them from us.
If reasons 1 and 2 are not persuasive enough, or do not apply to every geopolitical situation, America must still be willing to use its military to protect its “national interests.”

All three of these assumptions are ridiculous, a fact any bright 12-year-old should recognize.

Regarding Assumption 1 - Surely any American with a 6th grade education is aware of the fact that the world’s two largest oceans happen to “guard” the east and west coasts of the American mainland. Furthermore, any 12-year-old should know that the probability America’s neighbors to the north and south would attack our country is zero.point.zero. What this means to you and me is that if America proper is going to be attacked (and subdued), it’s going to have to be attacked by a nation a vast distance from our borders.

By the time a conscientious student reaches 10th grade he or she should be able to identify the tiny number of nations that might possess the means to occupy or “take over” America. These nations can be counted on three fingers - Russia, China and (if we really want to stretch things) Germany.

However, plenty of high school students should be inquisitive enough to ask a common-sense question: Why would these nations attempt to do such a thing?


Hopefully every American high school has at least a few students who know that occupying a nation with a land mass as vast as America, and with a militarily as powerful as America’s, would require a massive and sustained military operation.

Given that America has 320 million citizens - and if one assumes that a good portion of these citizens are feisty, armed and will be a tad put out at being occupied - subduing and securing America will not be a quick nor easy task. As a guess, such a commitment might require at least 12 million troops, troops rotating in and out of America over, say, a 20-year-period.

Leaving aside the massive costs of such a mission, how many nations actually have 12 million troops to spare?

China might. But before China could deploy these 12 million troops into “theater,” would not America’s government have already fired 1,000 nuclear missiles into China (and any nation allied with China)? And would these nations not respond in kind?

That is, by the time all the mushroom clouds evaporated, it’s unlikely a single “military power” would possess even 150,000 troops to guard its own ruins (much less possess the planes or ships to transport scores of divisions to America).

No - any way you war-game it - invading and occupying America is a non-starter. This is the case for every government on the planet. (And is doubly true for China, which would have obliterated the bulk of its international customers).

Regarding real “national security,” America is in fact the most secure nation on the face of the earth. One could go further. It’s probably the most secure nation in the history of the world … that is, if our government would simply follow Switzerland’s example and quit stirring up hornet nests all over the world. Or: Simply follow the “Golden Rule.”

In truth, the only nation that requires a massive military is a nation that is either surrounded by potential enemies, or a nation that seeks to use its military to expand its empire and/or its “spheres of meddling influence.” I leave it to the reader to decide which description best fits America over recent decades.

Assumption 2 - that our nation’s pro-active military “protects our freedoms” - is equally absurd.

Apparently the fear here is that if America does NOT invade and/or attack Iraq (or Iran or Syria or Libya or North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba or Afghanistan) these “enemies” will somehow eliminate our freedoms. (Surely a sizable percentage of Americans believe that one of the main reasons our troops are in all of these countries is to “protect our freedoms,” ergo these nations must be a “threat” to these freedoms.)

However, a bright 10th grade civics student should be astute enough to ask an obvious question: How exactly would a nation eradicate our freedoms?

Wouldn’t these nations also have to put millions of “boots on the ground?” Wouldn’t this nation(s) have to occupy hundreds of thousands of square miles of U.S. territory and take control of every level of our government, our courts, our police forces, our newspapers, the places we work?

Consider just one of our nation’s freedoms, the “right to bear arms.” To eliminate this freedom/right, these nations would have to figure out a way to take away my brothers’ or your father’s pistols, shot guns, hunting rifles and semi-automatics. Good luck with that, Iran.

To this day I don’t understand how Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi jeopardized my freedom to worship as I see fit, or was going to stop me from making one of my contrarian posts on the Internet. Still, according to the thinking of most Americans, this is exactly what these suckers were scheming to do.

Plus, as any bright 10th grade civics students should know (at least those who have read George Orwell’s 1984), it is our own government that’s far more likely to take away our liberties and freedoms than a hodgepodge group of terrorists located in impoverished nations 10,000 miles from our borders.

Assumption 3 - the only way America can defend its “national interests” is to start wars and change regimes all over the globe, or threaten to do these things - is a tougher nut to crack with satire. (This is largely because “national interest” is such a vague, subjective and ever-changing term). But I’ll try.

Yes, our neocon policies certainly advance the “interests” of some Americans. These Americans basically include military contractors, who become richer from these policies, and politicians, who get to feel even more important by creating new “threats” that tough and wise politicians get to eliminate.

On the financing end, mega banks benefit. I guess a few psychopaths who enjoy killing people might relish participating in a new war.

But excluding the 100,000 or so people in these categories, 319.9 million other Americans do not profit a dime from this quest to pursue “America’s (alleged) interests.”

In reality, wars and gargantuan military budgets send America’s government deeper into the red. The only way to pay for such a “policy” is to print even more money, a process which ultimately causes even greater inflation, and the standard of living of millions of Americans to decline even more. This policy, continued ad infinitum, will also require even more taxes, which further erodes Americans’ “freedom” to keep their own money.

And the above applies only to those of us who who will not be killed, wounded or become suicidal after returning from these global missions to “protect our freedoms” or, if one prefers, “advance our national interests.”

So to sum up:

No nation is going to invade America.
No nation’s government (except our own) is going to take away our freedoms.
The only American “interest” in pursuing these wars is to give more money or power to a handful of people and institutions who are already rich and powerful.
That is, every assumption that justifies our nation’s foreign policy is nonsensical, bogus and ridiculous. Any bright high school student who has been exposed to the concept of critical thinking should be able to cut through the propaganda and recognize these arguments as specious.

One must therefore ask why more Americans don’t recognize this and demand that our leaders abandon these policies, policies that make America less secure, policies implemented by a government that seeks to expand its control over our lives (a condition that is the opposite of freedom)?

The answer is as simple as it is depressing. Most Americans do NOT recognize these points as true or valid. Not only do most Americans reject these arguments, they often smear those who make them as unpatriotic or naive.

Instead, the vast majority of Americans listen to the policy-makers with ph D’s in international relations, or “experts” in government and the CIA, or “authorities” at think tanks who purport to understand “the way the world really works.”

That is, “We the People” have made a colossal mistake. We’ve listened to, and trusted, the wrong people.
 

Polaris

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Oct 11, 2007
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A Mid-Course Diagnosis

Soaring to New Lows

Fred Reed • July 11, 2019

As obsolete tanks rolled in Washington for the Fourth, and fighter planes howled in adrenal provocation, and the truculent classes reveled, besotted by in America’s eternal martial priapism, the alert might have asked: What, exactly, has der carrot-topped Fuhrer actually accomplished?

A look at Trump’s report card:

North Korea: A negligible country of twenty-five million, it made itself into a nuclear power despite Washington’s opposition. Kim Jong Un, who has more balls than a pool table, faced down Trump and his bluster about fire and fury. Trump’s repeated trips to see this micro-dictaor have given Kim importance in the world that he otherwise would not have.

American sanctions, upheld by Trump, have kept the population of the North miserable while having no effect on Kim’s luxurious way of life. They have accomplished nothing else. Kim has his nukes and would be crazy to give them up, which he isn’t. Net results: Zero.

Iran: Trump’s sanctions have accomplished nothing except to keep the Iranian population miserable and without medicines. His customary rants about destruction and obliteration have had no effect. Net results: Zero.

Venezuela: The Empire has not succeeded in controlling the country’s oil. The elected president remains in charge. Washington’s attempts at coups and assassinations have proved wet squibs. Trump has succeeded in keeping thirty-one million people in a state of privation. It is all he has done. Net result: Zero.

Cuba: He has prolonged the hardships of eleven million Cubans people who have done nothing wrong. But nothing else. Net results: Zero.

Afghanistan: His regime continues butchering large numbers of Afghans and making life unpleasant for most of the rest. This comes after his lying, as Obama did, about ending this very profitable war. Net result: Zero.

Russia: His gratuitous sanctions have coerced Moscow into doing nothing that Trump wants. Instead Trump has pushed Putin, a grown-up, to take Russia out of dollar holdings, trade in local currencies, seek an alternative to SWIFT, and ally with China for protection against Washington. Net result: Strongly negative.

Turkey: Trump’s threats against Ankara for buying the S-400 have failed, with deliveries due to begin this month. Washington presumably thought Trump’s promise of withholding the F-35, an overpriced dog of an aircraft, would frighten Erdogan into submission. It didn’t. Instead, Erdogan has said that if he doesn’t get America’s flying Pentagon subsidy, he may buy the Russian Su-57, in effect taking Turkey out of NATO. Net result: Below zero,.

And actually funny. (Funny because if he doesn’t follow through and deny Ankara the F-35, he will lose face and, if he does withhold the airplane, he will lose Turkey. Brilliant.)

Syria: Trump has managed to kill a great many people and ruin the lives of others for generations while failing to accomplish anything else. Net result: Zero.

Europe: The Continent (actually a peninsula of Asia) has ignored Trump’s bombastic orders to spend more on the military, meaning buy more of America’s expensive weapons, have met with disobedience. with Germany actually lowering its spending. Net results: Zero.

Trump’s further order, that Europe scrap Nordstream Two, thus making Europe dependent on America for energy, has met with disobedience. The pipeline has not been finished, and Europe may yet engage in its traditional boot-licking, but it appears that we will have the pipeline. Probable net result: Zero.

China: Unclear. China shows no signs of submitting and letting Washington run its economy, which is what is desired. It may buy American soybeans. Beijing continues to fortify the South China Sea, despite the US Navy’s frequent GBW missions (Grr. Bow-wow. Woof.) The Belt and Road Initiative grows apace. Net results: Probably far under zero.

Huawei: The company says that it now has fifty-one orders outside of China. Europe is getting on board. Huawei is currently installing 5G in fifteen Spanish cities–presumably Spain because it is not in NATO and thus less subject to American orders. This means that in a few months Spain will have a greatly more advanced telecommunications system than the United States. Go, Donald!

Since Trump has prohibited the use of Huawei equipment in the US, which has no competing 5G, he appears on course to lock America out of the emerging 5G world. Net result: Probably well under zero.

Immigration: In his presidential campaign, Trump promised to deport all illegals within two years. He has not. He would build The Wall. He has not, beyond bits and pieces. He would punish sanctuary cities. He has not. He has succeeded in getting Mexico to slow the transit of Central Americans to the US. Net result: Close to zero.

Jobs: He was going to bring them back to America. He has not. General Motors recently announced the transfer of more jobs to Mexico. Net result: Zero.

And he has pulled America out of the Paris climate-change treaty; the Transpacific Partnership (allowing China to fill the resultant influence vacuum); the Iranian nuclear treaty (entirely for the benefit of Israel, which seems to be his chief concern); UNESCO (because it criticized Israel); the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty, (likely to start another arms race very profitable to military industry but a serious loss for everyone else); NAFTA; UN Human Rights Council, and the UN Relief and Works Agency.

On a less concrete level, he has succeeded in turning the world away from the United States. For example, he treats European countries openly as imperial domains. They are imperial domains, of course, but in the past it has been thought wiser not to make this obvious. He peremptorily tells Europe ban Huawei, block Nordstream, don’t trade with Iran, roll over, bark, beg. He seeks to cripple the economies of China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba,and any other country that doesn’t do as he likes.

The world does not change overnight, but it is backing fairly hard away from America. Fewer countries and fewer obey Washington robotically. Even Europeans, frightened little things that they are, seek ways of trading with Iran.

China looks to make itself independent of American tech products, meaning that American firms will be locked out of the Chinese markets. If Trump pushes 1.4 billion increasingly prosperous people to find substitutes for American products, or to manufacture them for themselves, those markets will not come back when Trump leaves.

When the aging tough guy in the local saloon says, “I can whip any man in this bar,” it may be that he still can–barely, since the young bad-asses get bigger while the old fellow gets slower. But when the aging champ says, “I can whip every man in this bar all at once,” it will likely be hair, teeth, and eyeballs on the barroom floor.

:ambivalence:
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,716
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A Mid-Course Diagnosis

Soaring to New Lows

Fred Reed • July 11, 2019

As obsolete tanks rolled in Washington for the Fourth, and fighter planes howled in adrenal provocation, and the truculent classes reveled, besotted by in America’s eternal martial priapism, the alert might have asked: What, exactly, has der carrot-topped Fuhrer actually accomplished?

A look at Trump’s report card:

North Korea: A negligible country of twenty-five million, it made itself into a nuclear power despite Washington’s opposition. Kim Jong Un, who has more balls than a pool table, faced down Trump and his bluster about fire and fury. Trump’s repeated trips to see this micro-dictaor have given Kim importance in the world that he otherwise would not have.

American sanctions, upheld by Trump, have kept the population of the North miserable while having no effect on Kim’s luxurious way of life. They have accomplished nothing else. Kim has his nukes and would be crazy to give them up, which he isn’t. Net results: Zero.

Iran: Trump’s sanctions have accomplished nothing except to keep the Iranian population miserable and without medicines. His customary rants about destruction and obliteration have had no effect. Net results: Zero.

Venezuela: The Empire has not succeeded in controlling the country’s oil. The elected president remains in charge. Washington’s attempts at coups and assassinations have proved wet squibs. Trump has succeeded in keeping thirty-one million people in a state of privation. It is all he has done. Net result: Zero.

Cuba: He has prolonged the hardships of eleven million Cubans people who have done nothing wrong. But nothing else. Net results: Zero.

Afghanistan: His regime continues butchering large numbers of Afghans and making life unpleasant for most of the rest. This comes after his lying, as Obama did, about ending this very profitable war. Net result: Zero.

Russia: His gratuitous sanctions have coerced Moscow into doing nothing that Trump wants. Instead Trump has pushed Putin, a grown-up, to take Russia out of dollar holdings, trade in local currencies, seek an alternative to SWIFT, and ally with China for protection against Washington. Net result: Strongly negative.

Turkey: Trump’s threats against Ankara for buying the S-400 have failed, with deliveries due to begin this month. Washington presumably thought Trump’s promise of withholding the F-35, an overpriced dog of an aircraft, would frighten Erdogan into submission. It didn’t. Instead, Erdogan has said that if he doesn’t get America’s flying Pentagon subsidy, he may buy the Russian Su-57, in effect taking Turkey out of NATO. Net result: Below zero,.

And actually funny. (Funny because if he doesn’t follow through and deny Ankara the F-35, he will lose face and, if he does withhold the airplane, he will lose Turkey. Brilliant.)

Syria: Trump has managed to kill a great many people and ruin the lives of others for generations while failing to accomplish anything else. Net result: Zero.

Europe: The Continent (actually a peninsula of Asia) has ignored Trump’s bombastic orders to spend more on the military, meaning buy more of America’s expensive weapons, have met with disobedience. with Germany actually lowering its spending. Net results: Zero.

Trump’s further order, that Europe scrap Nordstream Two, thus making Europe dependent on America for energy, has met with disobedience. The pipeline has not been finished, and Europe may yet engage in its traditional boot-licking, but it appears that we will have the pipeline. Probable net result: Zero.

China: Unclear. China shows no signs of submitting and letting Washington run its economy, which is what is desired. It may buy American soybeans. Beijing continues to fortify the South China Sea, despite the US Navy’s frequent GBW missions (Grr. Bow-wow. Woof.) The Belt and Road Initiative grows apace. Net results: Probably far under zero.

Huawei: The company says that it now has fifty-one orders outside of China. Europe is getting on board. Huawei is currently installing 5G in fifteen Spanish cities–presumably Spain because it is not in NATO and thus less subject to American orders. This means that in a few months Spain will have a greatly more advanced telecommunications system than the United States. Go, Donald!

Since Trump has prohibited the use of Huawei equipment in the US, which has no competing 5G, he appears on course to lock America out of the emerging 5G world. Net result: Probably well under zero.

Immigration: In his presidential campaign, Trump promised to deport all illegals within two years. He has not. He would build The Wall. He has not, beyond bits and pieces. He would punish sanctuary cities. He has not. He has succeeded in getting Mexico to slow the transit of Central Americans to the US. Net result: Close to zero.

Jobs: He was going to bring them back to America. He has not. General Motors recently announced the transfer of more jobs to Mexico. Net result: Zero.

And he has pulled America out of the Paris climate-change treaty; the Transpacific Partnership (allowing China to fill the resultant influence vacuum); the Iranian nuclear treaty (entirely for the benefit of Israel, which seems to be his chief concern); UNESCO (because it criticized Israel); the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty, (likely to start another arms race very profitable to military industry but a serious loss for everyone else); NAFTA; UN Human Rights Council, and the UN Relief and Works Agency.

On a less concrete level, he has succeeded in turning the world away from the United States. For example, he treats European countries openly as imperial domains. They are imperial domains, of course, but in the past it has been thought wiser not to make this obvious. He peremptorily tells Europe ban Huawei, block Nordstream, don’t trade with Iran, roll over, bark, beg. He seeks to cripple the economies of China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba,and any other country that doesn’t do as he likes.

The world does not change overnight, but it is backing fairly hard away from America. Fewer countries and fewer obey Washington robotically. Even Europeans, frightened little things that they are, seek ways of trading with Iran.

China looks to make itself independent of American tech products, meaning that American firms will be locked out of the Chinese markets. If Trump pushes 1.4 billion increasingly prosperous people to find substitutes for American products, or to manufacture them for themselves, those markets will not come back when Trump leaves.

When the aging tough guy in the local saloon says, “I can whip any man in this bar,” it may be that he still can–barely, since the young bad-asses get bigger while the old fellow gets slower. But when the aging champ says, “I can whip every man in this bar all at once,” it will likely be hair, teeth, and eyeballs on the barroom floor.

:ambivalence:
Nice.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Yet the right wingers want trump to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. For what???
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
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hornyville
Yet the right wingers want trump to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. For what???
If President Trump can denuclearize the Korean Peninsula, he will win the Nobel Peace prize.

Donald Trump would be a worthy winner too, unlike Obama who never did anything on the international scene except drone people death.

Droning people to death at Afghan weddings is really a high point of the Obama administration.

Notice we never hear of such stories since Trump has become president?

Trump will not stoop that low like Obama.

:pizza:
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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If President Trump can denuclearize the Korean Peninsula, he will win the Nobel Peace prize.
Do you honestly think that might happen?
I mean, I know some people actually believe Trump, but there must be limits?
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
0
Do you honestly think that might happen?
I mean, I know some people actually believe Trump, but there must be limits?
Im sure you would prefer nuclear war instead of peace. Thats the Dems plan as well.

Heaven forbid someone actually going in to a country no other president has and make a safer world.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,716
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Im sure you would prefer nuclear war instead of peace. Thats the Dems plan as well.

Heaven forbid someone actually going in to a country no other president has and make a safer world.
NK has continued working on the nuclear weapons and delivery system.
The last communication was NK calling out the US, after the photo op handshake.
There is nothing happening.
 

whiteshaft

Been Around
Mar 15, 2014
1,783
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Room 38DD
A Mid-Course Diagnosis

Soaring to New Lows

Fred Reed • July 11, 2019

As obsolete tanks rolled in Washington for the Fourth, and fighter planes howled in adrenal provocation, and the truculent classes reveled, besotted by in America’s eternal martial priapism, the alert might have asked: What, exactly, has der carrot-topped Fuhrer actually accomplished?

A look at Trump’s report card:

North Korea: A negligible country of twenty-five million, it made itself into a nuclear power despite Washington’s opposition. Kim Jong Un, who has more balls than a pool table, faced down Trump and his bluster about fire and fury. Trump’s repeated trips to see this micro-dictaor have given Kim importance in the world that he otherwise would not have.

American sanctions, upheld by Trump, have kept the population of the North miserable while having no effect on Kim’s luxurious way of life. They have accomplished nothing else. Kim has his nukes and would be crazy to give them up, which he isn’t. Net results: Zero.

Iran: Trump’s sanctions have accomplished nothing except to keep the Iranian population miserable and without medicines. His customary rants about destruction and obliteration have had no effect. Net results: Zero.

Venezuela: The Empire has not succeeded in controlling the country’s oil. The elected president remains in charge. Washington’s attempts at coups and assassinations have proved wet squibs. Trump has succeeded in keeping thirty-one million people in a state of privation. It is all he has done. Net result: Zero.

Cuba: He has prolonged the hardships of eleven million Cubans people who have done nothing wrong. But nothing else. Net results: Zero.

Afghanistan: His regime continues butchering large numbers of Afghans and making life unpleasant for most of the rest. This comes after his lying, as Obama did, about ending this very profitable war. Net result: Zero.

Russia: His gratuitous sanctions have coerced Moscow into doing nothing that Trump wants. Instead Trump has pushed Putin, a grown-up, to take Russia out of dollar holdings, trade in local currencies, seek an alternative to SWIFT, and ally with China for protection against Washington. Net result: Strongly negative.

Turkey: Trump’s threats against Ankara for buying the S-400 have failed, with deliveries due to begin this month. Washington presumably thought Trump’s promise of withholding the F-35, an overpriced dog of an aircraft, would frighten Erdogan into submission. It didn’t. Instead, Erdogan has said that if he doesn’t get America’s flying Pentagon subsidy, he may buy the Russian Su-57, in effect taking Turkey out of NATO. Net result: Below zero,.

And actually funny. (Funny because if he doesn’t follow through and deny Ankara the F-35, he will lose face and, if he does withhold the airplane, he will lose Turkey. Brilliant.)

Syria: Trump has managed to kill a great many people and ruin the lives of others for generations while failing to accomplish anything else. Net result: Zero.

Europe: The Continent (actually a peninsula of Asia) has ignored Trump’s bombastic orders to spend more on the military, meaning buy more of America’s expensive weapons, have met with disobedience. with Germany actually lowering its spending. Net results: Zero.

Trump’s further order, that Europe scrap Nordstream Two, thus making Europe dependent on America for energy, has met with disobedience. The pipeline has not been finished, and Europe may yet engage in its traditional boot-licking, but it appears that we will have the pipeline. Probable net result: Zero.

China: Unclear. China shows no signs of submitting and letting Washington run its economy, which is what is desired. It may buy American soybeans. Beijing continues to fortify the South China Sea, despite the US Navy’s frequent GBW missions (Grr. Bow-wow. Woof.) The Belt and Road Initiative grows apace. Net results: Probably far under zero.

Huawei: The company says that it now has fifty-one orders outside of China. Europe is getting on board. Huawei is currently installing 5G in fifteen Spanish cities–presumably Spain because it is not in NATO and thus less subject to American orders. This means that in a few months Spain will have a greatly more advanced telecommunications system than the United States. Go, Donald!

Since Trump has prohibited the use of Huawei equipment in the US, which has no competing 5G, he appears on course to lock America out of the emerging 5G world. Net result: Probably well under zero.

Immigration: In his presidential campaign, Trump promised to deport all illegals within two years. He has not. He would build The Wall. He has not, beyond bits and pieces. He would punish sanctuary cities. He has not. He has succeeded in getting Mexico to slow the transit of Central Americans to the US. Net result: Close to zero.

Jobs: He was going to bring them back to America. He has not. General Motors recently announced the transfer of more jobs to Mexico. Net result: Zero.

And he has pulled America out of the Paris climate-change treaty; the Transpacific Partnership (allowing China to fill the resultant influence vacuum); the Iranian nuclear treaty (entirely for the benefit of Israel, which seems to be his chief concern); UNESCO (because it criticized Israel); the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty, (likely to start another arms race very profitable to military industry but a serious loss for everyone else); NAFTA; UN Human Rights Council, and the UN Relief and Works Agency.

On a less concrete level, he has succeeded in turning the world away from the United States. For example, he treats European countries openly as imperial domains. They are imperial domains, of course, but in the past it has been thought wiser not to make this obvious. He peremptorily tells Europe ban Huawei, block Nordstream, don’t trade with Iran, roll over, bark, beg. He seeks to cripple the economies of China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba,and any other country that doesn’t do as he likes.

The world does not change overnight, but it is backing fairly hard away from America. Fewer countries and fewer obey Washington robotically. Even Europeans, frightened little things that they are, seek ways of trading with Iran.

China looks to make itself independent of American tech products, meaning that American firms will be locked out of the Chinese markets. If Trump pushes 1.4 billion increasingly prosperous people to find substitutes for American products, or to manufacture them for themselves, those markets will not come back when Trump leaves.

When the aging tough guy in the local saloon says, “I can whip any man in this bar,” it may be that he still can–barely, since the young bad-asses get bigger while the old fellow gets slower. But when the aging champ says, “I can whip every man in this bar all at once,” it will likely be hair, teeth, and eyeballs on the barroom floor.

:ambivalence:
Interesting read!
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
58
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hornyville
Do you honestly think that might happen?
I mean, I know some people actually believe Trump, but there must be limits?
Well, Trump became president against all odds. In that sense, sure this is very possible. There are two reasons here.

1. China will nominate President Trump for denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula. Maybe even Russia will nominate him. The peace nicks of Europe will approve but probably won't nominate him. People in the US will nominate him for the prize. There will be a lot of support if that happens.

2. If that actually happens, and China and North Korea are willing to see it done, then the people who hand out that prize has a problem of credibility. Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize in year 1 of his presidency, then they spent the next 7 years droning every rag-head they saw. It did not matter if someone was innocent or guilty, at 35000 feet a rag-head has to be guilty. If someone like Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, then someone who can denuclearized Korea should deserve one too. Just a matter of credibility for those bozos.

:ambivalence:
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,716
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Well, Trump became president against all odds. In that sense, sure this is very possible. There are two reasons here.

1. China will nominate President Trump for denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula. Maybe even Russia will nominate him. The peace nicks of Europe will approve but probably won't nominate him. People in the US will nominate him for the prize. There will be a lot of support if that happens.

2. If that actually happens, and China and North Korea are willing to see it done, then the people who hand out that prize has a problem of credibility. Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize in year 1 of his presidency, then they spent the next 7 years droning every rag-head they saw. It did not matter if someone was innocent or guilty, at 35000 feet a rag-head has to be guilty. If someone like Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, then someone who can denuclearized Korea should deserve one too. Just a matter of credibility for those bozos.

:ambivalence:
1. No they won't, the Korean Peninsula is not de-nuked.
2. KJU is smarter than Trump and playing him for his own benefit.

There is no treaty, no talks and no progress.
Just a photo op.
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
58
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hornyville
This news is kind of important, but did not want to start a new thread.

It underscores the unusual times we live in.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

July 25, 2019 / 3:24 PM

U.S. lawmakers denounce Turkey's Russia arms purchase but unsure of next steps


Patricia Zengerle

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. lawmakers say they are unhappy about Turkey’s purchase of a Russian missile defence system but are unsure what President Donald Trump - or Congress - should do next, suggesting efforts to impose sanctions were on the back burner for now.

The Trump administration said last week it was removing NATO ally Turkey from the F-35 fighter jet programme, a move long threatened and expected after Ankara began accepting delivery of Russia’s S-400 air defence system.

Under a 2017 U.S. sanctions law known as CAATSA, Trump should also impose sanctions on Turkey for doing business with the Russian military, although he has not yet said whether he will do so. CAATSA does not set a timeline for sanctions.

Lawmakers have said they want to see a robust response, but Trump’s fellow Republicans have expressed greater caution.

Aides said they did not expect any legislative action before Sept. 9, when lawmakers return from their summer recess.

Trump brought some 40 Republican senators to the White House to discuss the issue on Tuesday. Jim Risch, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said there was a “spirited discussion” but that no conclusion was reached.

“I’ve said for a long, long time that it’s unacceptable for Turkey to have the S-400. And that’s the point I’m at. Now, what does that translate into? Let’s move forward and see how that goes,” he told reporters.

The F-35 stealth fighter jet, the most advanced aircraft in the U.S. arsenal, is used by NATO and other U.S. allies. Washington is concerned that deploying the S-400 with the F-35 would allow Russia to gain too much inside information about the aircraft’s systems.

Some lawmakers said it was essential not to sour relations with Turkey, an important player in dealings with neighbours Syria and Iraq. Turkey has threatened to retaliate if Washington imposes sanctions over the S-400.

“We must find a way to avoid the damage to the relationship that comes from Turkey activating the Russian S-400 missile system,” Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, a close ally of Trump, said on Twitter.

Graham also said he hoped the United States and Turkey would strengthen relations by negotiating a free trade agreement.

“Turkey is and continues to be a very important country, a very important NATO ally. We have lots of things that we do with them. So you want to send the message but you don’t want to alienate them forever,” Representative Mac Thornberry, the top Republican on the House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, told reporters.

Democrats said Trump should respect CAATSA, which he signed into law reluctantly after it passed both the Senate and House by veto-proof majorities two years ago.

“The law is unequivocal,” Senator Bob Menendez, the top Foreign Relations Committee Democrat, told Reuters.

Senator Jeanne Shaheen, a Democratic member of both the Foreign Relations and Armed Services panels, said it was important to impress on other countries that CAATSA has teeth.

“The administration needs to show strength and not set a disturbing precedent through inaction on CAATSA,” she said in a statement to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-t...rchase-but-unsure-of-next-steps-idUKKCN1UK2TH
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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This news is kind of important, but did not want to start a new thread.

It underscores the unusual times we live in.

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July 25, 2019 / 3:24 PM

U.S. lawmakers denounce Turkey's Russia arms purchase but unsure of next steps


Patricia Zengerle

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. lawmakers say they are unhappy about Turkey’s purchase of a Russian missile defence system but are unsure what President Donald Trump - or Congress - should do next, suggesting efforts to impose sanctions were on the back burner for now.

The Trump administration said last week it was removing NATO ally Turkey from the F-35 fighter jet programme, a move long threatened and expected after Ankara began accepting delivery of Russia’s S-400 air defence system.…[the article is above]
“The administration needs to show strength and not set a disturbing precedent through inaction on CAATSA,” she said in a statement to Reuters.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-t...rchase-but-unsure-of-next-steps-idUKKCN1UK2TH
So much for NATO; Donny always said it wasn't worth the effort anyway. Saying "the administration needs to show strength", is like saying the way to fix a problem is to do more of what caused it in the first place.
 
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