SP's vs MA's.

fall · Jun 27, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
It's not even about pushing boundaries here really, I don't think.

It's creating unjust expectations based solely on a broad definition of GFE manifested by a client's hopeful wants or another' Terb member's +1 here.

fall is an experienced member, I just don't feel this is a good approach to take or to criticize her for if unfulfilled afterwards, with a -1 (like was done for Amber above by another member because HIS level of GFE wasn't met.

It just leads to dissatisfaction to approach anything this way, especially on first visit in my opinion.

Well, I do not know to which spas you guys are going, but I am used to Brass and their GFE standards is at least kissing and almost always DATY. If the girl does not kiss, she does not say she is GFE. If the girls does not do DATY, she does not affirmatively reply that she is GFE but asks "what do you exactly mean by GFE?" At this era, it is on the girls to say that she does not do DATY or kissing before the session, as it is usually an assumed services if she says she is GFE. It is really a bummer if the girl says she is GFE and does not deliver. It is definitely no repeat and no extra tip on top of the all-inclusive fee. To be honest, I did go to some other spas and, while their mileage can go much further, the kissing and DATY mat be lacking (especially if they have just a standard massage table)

By the way, what is your definition of touching and friendly services? Touching breasts and chatty girl? Fake moaning while she does a HJ while does not allow touching her Y? (I had such experiences - it is so lame I wanted to laugh). It is hard to justify that the service is "friendly" if the girl is not up to it and seems to be enjoying herself and it is hard to imagine that the girl is enjoying herself if she does not want to kiss or get stimulated. Can somebody provide a detailed example of a GFE session that has no kissing and touching at the Y?

Wilson Lawrence · Jun 27, 2019

fall said:
Well, I do not know to which spas you guys are going, but I am used to Brass and their GFE standards is at least kissing and almost always DATY. If the girl does not kiss, she does not say she is GFE. If the girls does not do DATY, she does not affirmatively reply that she is GFE but asks "what do you exactly mean by GFE?" At this era, it is on the girls to say that she does not do DATY or kissing before the session, as it is usually an assumed services if she says she is GFE. It is really a bummer if the girl says she is GFE and does not deliver. It is definitely no repeat and no extra tip on top of the all-inclusive fee. To be honest, I did go to some other spas and, while their mileage can go much further, the kissing and DATY mat be lacking (especially if they have just a standard massage table)

By the way, what is your definition of touching and friendly services? Touching breasts and chatty girl? Fake moaning while she does a HJ while does not allow touching her Y? (I had such experiences - it is so lame I wanted to laugh). It is hard to justify that the service is "friendly" if the girl is not up to it and seems to be enjoying herself and it is hard to imagine that the girl is enjoying herself if she does not want to kiss or get stimulated. Can somebody provide a detailed example of a GFE session that has no kissing and touching at the Y?

Brass doesn't have a GFE standard posted anywhere as far as I've ever seen, where are you getting that from? Each MA at Brass chooses this personally, that's the only industry standard I'm aware of that applies.

Do you mean "In my experiences at Brass, it usually goes like...." where you aren't speaking for others or the MA?

It's all in your head it seems based on using a broad term like "Are you GFE?" in hopes of a simple yes reply; to later hold it against that MA that she agreed to additional services and caused your dissatisfaction. I'm not a fan of your approach here as it's a bit sketchy and done purposely it seems.

Are you specifically asking for "GFE" in advance via Twitter, rather than what you are actually looking for access to in session? Why so sly if you have listed specific wants? Are you afraid to ask her these questions before because it would come off as creepy?

I don't go into it with expectations, especially on first visit. I let it play out, if it's great than I'll likely book with her again. It's fun and relaxed, whatever happens, happens. I don't have a checklist of standards or additional expectations I guess, but that's me.

"At this era, it is on the girls to say that she does not do DATY or kissing before the session, as it is usually an assumed services if she says she is GFE"

Where are you getting this from? Says who that she must state no DATY before ever meeting you, as part of massage? You seem self-entitled on this for some reason fall, it's a disrespectful approach imo, that's all.

GFE with no kissing or DATY:

- Shower together, mutual touching.
- Mutual body kissing, no fluid exchange, not on the lips.
- Fun, passionate, involved experience, not purely physical eroticism.
- If the Y is off limits, that's her call, maybe next time, maybe not.
- Fun finish, mutual shower afterwards.
- Thanks and tip accordingly if I enjoyed myself.

If that gets a -1 from you because you didn't get extra, that's your call.

You showed your ignorance on this subject before and begged others for details on extras starting a thread:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?675697-Tipping-and-services-at-top-massage-places

PS - You haven't added a single +1 / -1 or a review in...... Ever? Ummmm, not sure who you are seeing either I guess

You saw Krystel 3 times, zero votes? Selfish and entitled much fall?

fall · Jun 27, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
Brass doesn't have a GFE standard posted anywhere as far as I've ever seen, where are you getting that from? Each MA at Brass chooses this personally, that's the only industry standard I'm aware of that applies.

Do you mean "In my experiences at Brass, it usually goes like...." where you aren't speaking for others or the MA?

It's all in your head it seems based on using a broad term like "Are you GFE?" in hopes of a simple yes reply; to later hold it against that MA that she agreed to additional services and caused your dissatisfaction. I'm not a fan of your approach here as it's a bit sketchy and done purposely it seems.

Are specifically asking for "GFE" via Twitter, rather than what you are actually looking for access to in session? Why so sly if you have listed specific wants? Are you afraid to ask her these questions before because it would come off as creepy?

I don't go into it with expectations, especially on first visit. I let it play out, if it's great than I'll likely book with her again. It's fun and relaxed, whatever happens, happens. I don't have a checklist of standards or additional expectations I guess, but that's me.

"At this era, it is on the girls to say that she does not do DATY or kissing before the session, as it is usually an assumed services if she says she is GFE"

Where are you getting this from? Says who that she must state no DATY before ever meeting you, as part of massage? You seem self-entitled on this for some reason fall, it's a disrespectful approach imo, that's all.

GFE with no kissing or DATY:

- Shower together, mutual touching.
- Mutual body kissing, no fluid exchange, not on the lips.
- Fun, passionate, involved experience, not purely physical eroticism.
- If the Y is off limits, that's her call, maybe next time, maybe not.
- Fun finish, mutual shower afterwards.
- Thanks and tip accordingly if I enjoyed myself.

If that gets a -1 from you because you didn't get extra, that's your call.

You showed your ignorance on this subject before and begged others for details on extras starting a thread:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?675697-Tipping-and-services-at-top-massage-places

PS - You haven't added a single +1 / -1 or a review in...... Ever? Ummmm, not sure who you are seeing either I guess

You saw Krystel 3 times, zero votes, selfish?l and entitled much fall?

So many words... By its pure definition of the word "standard" means "customary" or "ordinary" or "most often". So, if 90% of GFE MA offer kissing and DATY, then kissing and DATY is a standard for GFE MA. I am an old guy with no twitter account, so, I just ask the girls during "line up" at the club. And, based on my experience, 90% of GFE do offer kissing and DATY. And, another definition of "expectation": it is something that is expected on average (most of the time, or mode, if we are talking about non-numerical parameters). So, if 90% of girls whom I've seen do offer DATY and kissing, it is, by definition, an expectation that GFE includes DATY and kissing. And I like my session to have no conversations whatsoever. I am not a people person

Regarding my luck of reviews: I do not like to review. I am a free-rider and I am proud of this. And, IMO, the definition of GFE MA makes that entire +1/-1 rating useless.

Wilson Lawrence · Jun 27, 2019

fall said:
So many words... By its pure definition of the word "standard" means "customary" or "ordinary" or "most often". So, if 90% of GFE MA offer kissing and DATY, then kissing and DATY is a standard for GFE MA. I am an old guy with no twitter account, so, I just ask the girls during "line up" at the club. And, based on my experience, 90% of GFE do offer kissing and DATY. And, another definition of "expectation": it is something that is expected on average (most of the time, or mode, if we are talking about non-numerical parameters). So, if 90% of girls whom I've seen do offer DATY and kissing, it is, by definition, an expectation that GFE includes DATY and kissing. And I like my session to have no conversations whatsoever. I am not a people person

Regarding my lack of reviews: I do not like to review. I am a free-rider and I am proud of this. And, IMO, the definition of GFE MA makes that entire +1/-1 rating useless.

You can't use your personal anecdotal evidence and call it the Brass standard, that's ridiculous.

Your personal enjoyment and positive experiences thus far are only because you have cherry picked off the GFE MA lists and reviews of others to guarantee additional "friendly" service.

You refuse to recognize this is the individual MA's choice on her 'additional GFE" services, there is no correlation from one MA to the next on this.

Even with the wealth of information you've been given from other members, you admire your own refusal to never contribute back to the community that has helped you, and arrogantly pompous of being that selfish as well.

You'll get nothing further in support from me.

You're not a people person and your NO TALKING IN SESSION rule is like you just want their teenage flesh in your old guy mouth. You kinda disgust me fall.

You are more of a free-loader than a free-rider it seems. You definitely aren't helping anyone but yourself.

You really should go back re-read through this thread and also the one you started a month ago begging throughout it for support from others' experience, which you received from many:

Post #15 here by fall

"I just hope that some other hobbyists who supply +1/-1 to that list use the same definition of "friendly" and "touching" and will give a -1 for insufficient touching and friendliness"

And just over one month ago fall initiated:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?675697-Tipping-and-services-at-top-massage-places

Post #32 by fall

"Guys, seriously, if you've got BJ/FS at the two top massage clubs, please, let me know how much you've offered on top of the $180 fee. If not publicly, please, PM me. I really need some general guidelines"

Post #49 by fall:

"the one place (BC) with beautiful college-age girls and I am trying to figure out what it takes to break the house rules with some of them who are willing to do it."

Just go to escorts, that's what you want; but instead you'll attempt to pressure teenage MA's to offer escort services.

Jessica is a friend of mine, we talk to each other, like normal people do.

#slobbyist

#nofreerides

#notalking

#sexrobotsonly

Gntlmn · Jun 27, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
I don't go into it with expectations, especially on first visit. I let it play out, if it's great than I'll likely book with her again. It's fun and relaxed, whatever happens, happens. I don't have a checklist of standards or additional expectations I guess, but that's me.

I agree!

Antonanon · Jun 28, 2019

Wow, incredible take down of Fall by Mr. Lawrence. Hats off good sir.

Guys, these lovely women are humans, let’s all play nice.

Wilson Lawrence · Jun 28, 2019

Antonanon said:
Wow, incredible take down of Fall by Mr. Lawrence. Hats off good sir.

Guys, these lovely women are humans, let’s all play nice.

Rainah · Jul 2, 2019

To feel like gfe to me, personally, I look for
- good conversation, acts like she's interested in me
- light kissing (I've no issue if a ma says 'based on connection' but if she has a no kissing rule I don't think it's a good fit for me)
- an air of passion, sensuality (difficult to describe bit if you've felt it you know it. How it's done rather than what is done)
- mutual touching, in general not of specific body parts (neck kisses, a hand on her waist, brushing hair back)
- cuddling, if desired
- not leaving early if we finish early

But I think in general the most important parts are staying for the full length of session, being interested in you/the session, and the feeling of passion. Not specific acts.

But everyone defines it differently so I've had the most success talking generally about what I look for and asking the provider if they think we're a good match. After all, it's not everyone's cup of tea and there's nothing wrong with that.

I also strongly disagree that a ma needs to be wet/aroused for her to be enjoying herself. That sounds like an exhausting expectation to put on someone who may see a lot of clients back to back. Also sounds like a recipe for a lot of faking. If she's engaged, laughing, we're having fun, we share an experience that is sexual and sexy, and she leaves with a smile, that's all I need.

Taraparker · Jul 2, 2019

Rainah said:
To feel like gfe to me, personally, I look for
- good conversation, acts like she's interested in me
- light kissing (I've no issue if a ma says 'based on connection' but if she has a no kissing rule I don't think it's a good fit for me)
- an air of passion, sensuality (difficult to describe bit if you've felt it you know it. How it's done rather than what is done)
- mutual touching, in general not of specific body parts (neck kisses, a hand on her waist, brushing hair back)
- cuddling, if desired
- not leaving early if we finish early

But I think in general the most important parts are staying for the full length of session, being interested in you/the session, and the feeling of passion. Not specific acts.

But everyone defines it differently so I've had the most success talking generally about what I look for and asking the provider if they think we're a good match. After all, it's not everyone's cup of tea and there's nothing wrong with that.

I also strongly disagree that a ma needs to be wet/aroused for her to be enjoying herself. That sounds like an exhausting expectation to put on someone who may see a lot of clients back to back. Also sounds like a recipe for a lot of faking. If she's engaged, laughing, we're having fun, we share an experience that is sexual and sexy, and she leaves with a smile, that's all I need.

I love your definition of GFE!

Rainah · Jul 4, 2019

Thank you! I think it's really easy to get caught up in the stuff that's measurable (like specific services) that people can lose sight of what they really want out of an encounter. You can say "lets me go down on her" is a must have, but maybe "makes me feel sexy, desirable, and like a partner in creating the sexual vibe" is what you really want, and there's lots of ways to do that. Or maybe you don't. But I find the more I dig down to what I really want, the easier it is for me to get it.

I guess now that I think about it more, gfe to me is a session that is heavy on emotional labour. The focus is on having her attention and feeling wanted, sexy, sensual, and safe/accepted. Providers don't get enough credit for everything that goes into being able to give clients that experience

fibrewax · Jul 9, 2019

I think I have figured this out now - at least for myself.

I have had good and bad experiences with both SP and MA.

When I look back on them now, my (best) experiences were with MA's who also did full service.

I think the main reason for this is because with a MA, there is a kind of "foreplay", which simply does not exist with the majority of SPs.

A "within-MA limits" MA can be great, except if all you get is a hand-job at the end....well, that's simply not enough for me (anymore) - as no matter how good it was, I always "wish" there was more.

A majority of SP encounters are unfortunately all business - geared to get you in, get you off, and get you out the door as quickly as possible.
Those SP encounters are simply cold.
Honestly, if all I wanted was to get off (MA or SP), I can do that myself and save my time and money.

A "hybrid" MA, on the other hand, will pamper you beforehand - and that makes all the difference in the world.
They will slowly work you over with their hands, body, and more - giving you that physical "connection" - before the main event.

I still make mistakes - drawn to the TOFTT excitement of someone "new" - and keep getting burned, for the most part - with wham-bam SP experiences, or MA encounters that leave me wanting (more).

Now we have SPs/MAs quoting "GFE", in order to try and make things appear better - but often it is a term that is quoted, misinterpreted, misused, and never actually delivered.
This is truly a crap-shoot industry.
I'm glad we have TERB, and the support of (each other) on here, to assist in finding the next, greatest, experience.

Wilson Lawrence · Jul 9, 2019

Not sure why everyone keeps offering their personal definition of ideal GFE, impossible to get consensus I feel... you might as well be debating the detailed existence of an afterlife

Everyone's definition is correct to them only, no possible debate will end this. It's a really horrible term, means nothing. Time to replace it with something useful imo.

whiteshaft · Jul 9, 2019

JohnnyFever said:
Keep in mind that the bar for "GFE" in the list on the review forum was purposely set very low in order to avoid the subjective definitions. As per the thread:

"For the purposes of the list, the “low bar” definition of GFE will be honoured as outlined below:

Friendly service
Body slides
Touching allowed
Shower play, if requested

These four criteria SHOULD be the benchmark of any employed MA.

Thank you JohnnyFever for sharing a clear response (with specific criteria) to a specific question! The absence of drama really makes life a lot easier.

fall · Jul 9, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
You can't use your personal anecdotal evidence and call it the Brass standard, that's ridiculous.

Your personal enjoyment and positive experiences thus far are only because you have cherry picked off the GFE MA lists and reviews of others to guarantee additional "friendly" service.

You refuse to recognize this is the individual MA's choice on her 'additional GFE" services, there is no correlation from one MA to the next on this.

Even with the wealth of information you've been given from other members, you admire your own refusal to never contribute back to the community that has helped you, and arrogantly pompous of being that selfish as well.

You'll get nothing further in support from me.

You're not a people person and your NO TALKING IN SESSION rule is like you just want their teenage flesh in your old guy mouth. You kinda disgust me fall.

You are more of a free-loader than a free-rider it seems. You definitely aren't helping anyone but yourself.

You really should go back re-read through this thread and also the one you started a month ago begging throughout it for support from others' experience, which you received from many:

Post #15 here by fall

"I just hope that some other hobbyists who supply +1/-1 to that list use the same definition of "friendly" and "touching" and will give a -1 for insufficient touching and friendliness"

And just over one month ago fall initiated:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?675697-Tipping-and-services-at-top-massage-places

Post #32 by fall

"Guys, seriously, if you've got BJ/FS at the two top massage clubs, please, let me know how much you've offered on top of the $180 fee. If not publicly, please, PM me. I really need some general guidelines"

Post #49 by fall:

"the one place (BC) with beautiful college-age girls and I am trying to figure out what it takes to break the house rules with some of them who are willing to do it."

Just go to escorts, that's what you want; but instead you'll attempt to pressure teenage MA's to offer escort services.

Jessica is a friend of mine, we talk to each other, like normal people do.

#slobbyist

#nofreerides

#notalking

#sexrobotsonly

Even more words, but no logic. You want an intelligent debate? Define "expectation". My guess, you define it as "minimum allowed services" and everything above it is a "premium". But it is not the standard definition. Standard definition of "expectation" is "what usually happens". And DATY and kissing is usually offered, hence, by definition,they are expected. Yes, some girls do not offer it (i.e., their services are below expectation but still at par with minimum requirement), and it is OK. BJ and FS are rarely offered offered, hence, they are not expected.

I truly hate non-logical people like you who simply do not understand what other people are saying, draw illogical conclusion, and simply try to please others. i am not in the hobby to make friends, I like physical foreplay, and most MA offer it and we all are happy. I am also bad with names and rarely look at reviews (I never book independent and most other reviews are pretty useless). I hate to see this board become another version of the rosy board with so many rosy reviews and exaggerated ratings.

Wilson Lawrence · Jul 9, 2019

Wow.

Nope. Lol.

You're an admitted Terb parasite fall and most know it now. You're welcome.

You'll get nothing more from me but delicious mockery ole fella.

#dumbdumb

#freeloader

#falldownlogic

fall · Jul 10, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
Wow.

Nope. Lol.

You're an admitted Terb parasite fall and most know it now. You're welcome.

You'll get nothing more from me but delicious mockery ole fella.

#dumbdumb

#freeloader

#falldownlogic

Yea, yea, yea.... When you learn the difference between free-loader and free-rider and go back to school to learn something about logic, your posts may start making sense. Based on your posts, I guess, you are an English major or have an MBA in Management, but you definitely skipped math classes or any classes that deal with formal logic. In a meanwhile, make some MA girlfriends and go talk to them - because, apparently, this is what their job description is. God, I miss those times when we had decent agencies in Ottawa or when Mirage had good girls coming to town who knew how to foreplay,

Respect1 · Jul 10, 2019

GFE

Girl,, " I,ll blow you if you do the dishes , and take out the trash after you do the laundry ''

Wilson Lawrence · Jul 11, 2019

fall said:
Yea, yea, yea.... When you learn the difference between free-loader and free-rider and go back to school to learn something about logic, your posts may start making sense. Based on your posts, I guess, you are an English major or have an MBA in Management, but you definitely skipped math classes or any classes that deal with formal logic. In a meanwhile, make some MA girlfriends and go talk to them - because, apparently, this is what their job description is. God, I miss those times when we had decent agencies in Ottawa or when Mirage had good girls coming to town who knew how to foreplay,

Ummm... Thanks for the compliments on education, even if completely wrong, I appreciate your appreciation of my "words".
Sorry I can't return the gesture as I have no idea where you get to be at your level of ignorance tbh. As tragic as that may be for you to live with every day, and it's sad in a way, you have my pity fall. Your struggle to communicate with and appreciate others seems difficult and very real.

"Logic" is a principal teaching of Philosophy, not Mathematics, but I'm sure you knew that, just forgot? Remember drawing big circles stating "if" and "then" statements? Maybe it's just me. Maybe they didn't teach this in one room schoolhouses back in the day

What you've missed here ole yeller, is that this has always been about respect and fairness the whole time. These are 2 things you have demonstrated an ignorant attitude towards, and you don't bother teach an old lame dog the new tricks. Your mental gymnastics to justify your actions here begging others for help are entertaining at least I guess ya precious freeloading parasite you

. You're special.

Just sit in your corner on arrival at a spa and request to have them parade in front of you on every visit like you're the king of the republic of fall-topia if you prefer... They know your type.

Everyone here along with the MA's know exactly what you really have shown yourself to be. Where's any support for your statements? Buehler? Buehler? BUEHLER?? LOL

PS - "In a meanwhile" (huh?).... You having fun yet? You want me to explain any big 3 syllable words or how paragraphs work for future?

My only bad logic posted here is why do I even bother responding at this point... my fault there though... Good luck champ

#falltopia4ever!

fall · Jul 11, 2019

Wilson Lawrence said:
Ummm... Thanks for the compliments on education, even if completely wrong, I appreciate your appreciation of my "words".
Sorry I can't return the gesture as I have no idea where you get to be at your level of ignorance tbh. As tragic as that may be for you to live with every day, and it's sad in a way, you have my pity fall. Your struggle to communicate with and appreciate others seems difficult and very real.

"Logic" is a principal teaching of Philosophy, not Mathematics, but I'm sure you knew that, just forgot? Remember drawing big circles stating "if" and "then" statements? Maybe it's just me. Maybe they didn't teach this in one room schoolhouses back in the day

What you've missed here ole yeller, is that this has always been about respect and fairness the whole time. These are 2 things you have demonstrated an ignorant attitude towards, and you don't bother teach an old lame dog the new tricks. Your mental gymnastics to justify your actions here begging others for help are entertaining at least I guess ya precious freeloading parasite you . You're special.

Just sit in your corner on arrival at a spa and request to have them parade in front of you on every visit like you're the king of the republic of fall-topia if you prefer... They know your type.

Everyone here along with the MA's know exactly what you really have shown yourself to be. Where's any support for your statements? Buehler? Buehler? BUEHLER?? LOL

PS - "In a meanwhile" (huh?).... You having fun yet? You want me to explain any big 3 syllable words or how paragraphs work for future?

My only bad logic posted here is why do I even bother responding at this point... my fault there though... Good luck champ

#falltopia4ever!

Yep, an English major it it (or any other humanities discipline). Sorry, never drew a circle with "if" and "then" or took a philosophy class in my life: I am a math major (all the way). Why extroverts always assume that introverts are ignorant? We just do not want to talk. But when I talk I call everything by its proper name, not using PC language (not in the people face though). I still prefer not to talk, but your absolute disregard for logic makes me to speak up. And I am certain I can explain all the premises for my "ifs" and can break down in small steps all the logical conclusion I make. Can you? For example, you say "Just sit in your corner on arrival at a spa and request to have them parade in front of you on every visit like you're the king of the republic of fall-topia if you prefer". How did you conclude that I want to see the line up because I enjoy it and not because I cannot book in advance? Why do you think I enjoy the parade? Can it be that I hate it (and I do hate it because I hate talking to people), but it is the only way to see the girls? I would very much prefer to see an introductory video with them in private in which they say what they do often, what they do sometime, and what they never do, but such video is not offered. You see, you have no logic. There is absolutely no logical connection between "if" and "then" statements in your arguments. But you write and talk beautifully, like a true English major (disclaimer: an "English major" is a guess, not a conjecture).

Wilson Lawrence · Jul 11, 2019

You're on the internet right now and can book for the next day through either CMJ or BC like everyone else. Why is that different for you than others? You know Twitter is right there and you can even browse on the www without a Twitter account... Arrgh fall! Lol.

https://mobile.twitter.com/peachbrassxo

Click 'media' to view pictures and video posts only.

Are you really saying:

"Since I don't Twitter (but I know there's videos there and refuse to try because 'I'm just too old for Twitter'), and since CMJ & BC websites only have professional and up to date pictures, and not your required videos.... That you are forced to have them line up and come meet you every visit on parade?"

C'mon.

SP's vs MA's.

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Active member

Active member

Banned

New member

Active member

New member

Seriously ?

Banned

Been Around

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Boudoir

Banned

Well-known member

Banned