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beyond meats vs real meat, eggs and diary

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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canadianmale.wordpress.com
For the past 60 years there has been a concerted effort to demonize saturated fats, found in animal products and tropical oils, and cholesterol, in our food and blood. Despite the well-established health benefits of diets rich in cholesterol and saturated fat, flawed, deceptive and biased research has created the myth that a low fat, plant-based diet is ideal for good health. Poorly conducted epidemiological research, U.S. government intervention and misinformation conveyed by contemporary lifestyle researchers have contributed to the current state of confusion on dietary influences on health. The public must educate themselves on how to optimize their diet and cardiovascular health.

David M. Diamond is a professor in the Departments of Psychology and Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida and is a Research Career Scientist at theTampa Veterans Hospital, where he has directed his research program on post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and traumatic brain injury (TBI). He has also served as the Director of the USF Neuroscience Collaborative program and is a Fellow at the American Institute of Stress and the International Stress and Behavior Society.


 

Never Compromised

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Feb 1, 2006
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I'm on the Ketogenic diet, working well for me. But what is amazing is what happens if I go full carnivore for 3 or more days then start intermittent fasting.
 

Lovely_Lovelynn

Toronto GFE & PSE Companion
Jul 7, 2018
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LOL I hope this is your idea of satire smear campaigning.

These people have eating disorders, body dysmorphia, mental health issues, drug addictions, etc.

That is NOT what healthy vegans look like.

I'm vegan, curvy, & very healthy.
 
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barnacler

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May 13, 2013
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. sea witch on st clair w is the only place i know that still uses tallow to deep fry their fish and chips.
Now THAT is useful information. When I was a kid fries were cooked in lard, which we now know is NOT unhealthy. Tasted way better.
 

cage

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Jun 27, 2010
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You are aware the video "evidence" you are posting from the likes of Frank Turfano and others are simply opinion pieces and clickbait right? Frank in particular has sponsorships from meat / animal agro companies as well as his own company selling grass fed meat products (although I believe it's now defunct due to his funding being pulled by GoFundMe for violating terms of service). He's a laughing stock within the health community and it's widely known be plays a character to appeal to a specific type of audience.

I understand you're obviously trying to make vague references to the "Agenda 21" connection some connect veganism to, but the nutritional misinformation you are posting goes against all of the most current peer reviewed / cohort studies , randomized trials and plain common sense. Green leafy vegetables do NOT raise risk of all cause mortality (as meat has been scientifically proven to do, unequivocally).

You have the right to an opinion, but you sre spreading such blatant misinformation and cherry picked data that is clearly being used to reinforce your personal bias and not to promote actual better health.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,154
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
You are aware the video "evidence" you are posting from the likes of Frank Turfano and others are simply opinion pieces and clickbait right? Frank in particular has sponsorships from meat / animal agro companies as well as his own company selling grass fed meat products (although I believe it's now defunct due to his funding being pulled by GoFundMe for violating terms of service). He's a laughing stock within the health community and it's widely known be plays a character to appeal to a specific type of audience.

I understand you're obviously trying to make vague references to the "Agenda 21" connection some connect veganism to, but the nutritional misinformation you are posting goes against all of the most current peer reviewed / cohort studies , randomized trials and plain common sense. Green leafy vegetables do NOT raise risk of all cause mortality (as meat has been scientifically proven to do, unequivocally).

You have the right to an opinion, but you sre spreading such blatant misinformation and cherry picked data that is clearly being used to reinforce your personal bias and not to promote actual better health.
Green leafy vegetables contains goitrogens and other toxins I already posted the evidence for that. Turfano is not sponsored by meat companies he admitted that he does not eat regular meat found in supermarkets

The current obesity, diabetes and heart disease epidemic are NOT caused by meat those studies claiming meat is unhealthy are already debunked by recent studies

And fyi plants have lower nutrition contents, lower calories and are harder to digest. And produce anti-nutrients, hormone disruptors and other toxins to defend themselves from being eaten
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,154
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canadianmale.wordpress.com
Proof the fluoride is working.
Why are you derailing with flouride which is unrelated to meat and health. I will post more info when I get home I can't copy links with a smartphone
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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https://www.kevinstock.io/health/vitamins-and-minerals-plants-vs-animals/

Plant vs Animal: Vitamins and Minerals

If you take nothing else away from this article, this is what I would remember:

Plant-based food does not provide complete nutrition. It is missing essential nutrients that humans must get through animal foods.
Meat provides complete nutrition. It contains all the macro and micronutrients humans need to function.

Throughout human history, animal-based foods were the only ones that would have been available year round. If meat didn’t provide complete nutrition, humans wouldn’t exist.
Vitamins – Plants vs Animals

There are 3 vitamins that do not exist in plant foods.

Vitamin B12
Vitamin D3
Vitamin K2

We literally have to consume vitamin B12 from animal sourced foods. It is vital to making our DNA, RNA, and blood cells. Vitamin B12 deficiency leads to tiredness and weakness. It can lead to megaloblastic anemia and devastate the nervous system. People who are deficient in vitamin B12 experience a host of problems including balance, depression, confusion and dementia. (r, r, r)
Let’s look at a comparison between plant and meat vitamins and minerals.

Vitamin A – It is approximately 20 times more bioavailable in animal-based food than plant foods.
In fact, plant foods don’t actually have any vitamin A. They have carotenoids which have to be converted to Vitamin A.
Vitamin B – Animal-based foods are the best source of B Vitamins. Vitamin B12 is exclusively found in animal-based foods.
Vitamin C – Plant-based foods are a better source of vitamin C. Does it matter? (Hint: Yes and No.)
Vitamin D – Plants don’t contain Vitamin D3 (the form our body needs). Sun and meat is our answer here.
Plants have Vitamin D2, and our body can convert some D2 to D3
Vitamin E – Plant-based foods have higher concentrations of vitamin E. And for good reason. A plant-based diet requires additional protection from oxidation of PUFA which Vitamin E helps provide through its antioxidant properties. It’s still found in adequate supply in meat.
Vitamin K – Both plant and animal foods have the K1 version; however, plants don’t have K2 which is vital for human life.
K2 also has numerous forms. The essential kind we need is MK-4, which is only in animal food. We can convert some K1 to MK-4 but generally not enough to meet our needs.

References: (r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r, r)
Minerals – Plants vs Animals

While all essential minerals can be found in both plant and animal foods, there is a stark difference in absorption of these micronutrients. Animal-based nutrients have higher bioavailability as well as less hindrance from “antinutrients” that come pre-packaged with plant-based food.
Bioavailability and Antinutrients

Iron is a prime example of the difference in bioavailability between plant-based and animal-based minerals. Iron deficiency is the most common nutrient deficiency in the world. And since iron plays a vital role in carrying oxygen to cells throughout the body deficiencies lead to fatigue, weakness, pallor, and anemia. Memory and cognitive problems are common symptoms when iron levels get too low.

There are two kinds of iron.

Plant iron = non-heme iron.
Animal iron = heme iron.

Plant iron, the non-heme version, is at least 3X less bioavailable than heme iron from animal sources. To make matters worse, plant-based foods contain antinutrients that further inhibit the absorption of numerous minerals, including iron. Phytates, for example, interfere with the absorption of plant iron, thereby making a poor source of iron even worse.

Studies have shown that vegetarians often have similar iron intakes to omnivores on paper, yet they suffer a higher degree of iron deficiencies. For example, a study of 75 vegan women found that 40% of them were iron deficient, despite having iron intakes that were above the recommended daily allowance (RDA).

Antinutrients are another topic all unto themselves. (r)

But in essence, plants contain phytochemicals used to deter predators from eating them. Many of these phytochemical interfere with absorption of essential vitamins and minerals. Iron, calcium magnesium, and zinc are all hindered by various antinutrients. So when a plant-based food says it has 50% of your RDA of zinc, it may be off, way off.

In contrast, meat doesn’t contain these antinutrients, rather it contains vitamins and minerals in forms easy for us to absorb and utilize. (r, r, r, r, r)

Micronutrient Concentrations

Plant-based foods aren’t just harder to absorb, but they tend to have smaller quantities of the “big hitters.”

For example, many plant-based foods are lower in iodine and zinc compared to animal foods.

When comparing plant and animal vitamin and minerals we have to keep in mind:

The concentration / quantity provided in the food source
The bioavailability of that micronutrient in its particular form (i.e. heme vs non-heme iron)
The antinutrients that further inhibit availability

Beyond Micronutrients

It’s important to evaluate other nutritional differences between plants and animal foods beyond their micronutrients.
Proteins

Most plant-based foods are incomplete proteins. This means various plant-based foods have to be combined to get all the amino acids needed. Exacerbating the situation, these proteins are mostly found in plant seeds which often contain the highest concentrations of antinutrients and phytochemicals that can impair human health. Animal-sourced protein is complete protein.
Fat

Plant and animal fat content are also quite different. EPA and DHA are essential fatty acids not found in plants. Further, evidence is showing that a ratio of omega-3s to omega-6s should ideally be around 1:1. However, vegetable oils greatly overwhelm this ratio towards pro-inflammatory omega-6s. Animals that are raised on their natural diet often have a ratio close to 1:1; however, animals raised on an unnatural diet can also skew this ratio towards omega-6s. (r)
Carbohydrates

Animal foods are naturally low in carbohydrates. You can get some carbs in organ meats, some in dairy from the lactose, but for the most part, animal food is low in carbohydrates. Plant-based foods are high in carbohydrates. Based on the fact that hyperinsulinemia underlies almost every modern chronic disease, it’s likely humans aren’t designed to handle high doses of carbohydrate. Which is exactly what has happened thanks to the agricultural revolution and exacerbated via the industrial revolution that brought us refined, processed carbs. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Humans don’t need to eat carbs. In fact, a look at human anatomy through evolution reveals what humans are actually designed to eat. (r)

Glucose also impacts micronutrient absorption. For example, glucose and Vitamin C look very similarly molecularly and they compete with each other for absorption. The less glucose one consume, the less vitamin C one needs. And it’s not just vitamin C. Glucose lowers plasma potassium levels and less glucose leads to better magnesium levels. (r, r)

So what we see is that the lack of carbohydrates in one’s diet alters micronutrient requirements. Thiamine is an excellent example. A “carb burner” requires twice as much thiamine as a “fat burner.” (r, r, r)
Cholesterol

Plant-based foods do not supply dietary cholesterol. Only animal-based foods do. Evidence suggest this has significant health implications. Especially for the brain that hogs 25% of all bodily cholesterol.
Context Matters.

The amount of vitamins and minerals one needs is inextricably linked to countless factors such as one’s overall diet, lifestyle, gender, age, ect. Blanket statements and recommendations like RDAs are massive generalizations that can range from a little off to way off.

For example, the switch from a heavy meat-based diet to a heavy plant-based diet results in a higher degree of folate deficiencies. (r) This is contrary to what the “label” may have you predict. Context matters.

We live in a society that often thinks “more is better.” But when it comes to nutrients, the right amount is what we want. A diet “high” in Vitamin C isn’t necessarily better or good. A diet “low” in Vitamin E very well may be optimal in the context of that overall diet.

Context matters.
Fiber

Plants do contain another macronutrient that animal foods don’t – fiber. Some people think this is why plant-based foods are necessary. However, contrary to popular belief, humans don’t need fiber, and it’s often detrimental in the diet.

For example, many plant-based foods come packaged with insoluble fiber which can bind to magnesium. Thus, fiber acts like an antinutrient preventing nutrient absorption.
Vitamins and Minerals – Plants vs Animals

If one wants to eat plant-based foods for their vitamins and minerals, that’s all fine and well. However, it should be recognized that plant-based food is incomplete nutrition requiring the mixing of various plant-based foods together, supplementing, or including animal foods in the diet.

Meat is complete nutrition. It doesn’t require the addition of plant-based foods or supplements to obtain all macro and micronutrients we need. And I think it’s fair to say that meat is a superior choice to plant-based food for your vitamins and minerals.

[NOTE: In this article we looked specifically at vitamins and minerals – what was omitted is other problemsome issues with plants beyond their inferiority of nutrients. These problems are addressed in “Health Dangers of a Plant-Based Diet” which you can now access here]:

https://www.kevinstock.io/health/vitamins-and-minerals-plants-vs-animals/
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
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Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms

Abstract

AIM: To investigate the effect of reducing dietary fiber on patients with idiopathic constipation.

METHODS: Sixty-three cases of idiopathic constipation presenting between May 2008 and May 2010 were enrolled into the study after colonoscopy excluded an organic cause of the constipation. Patients with previous colon surgery or a medical cause of their constipation were excluded. All patients were given an explanation on the role of fiber in the gastrointestinal tract. They were then asked to go on a no fiber diet for 2 wk. Thereafter, they were asked to reduce the amount of dietary fiber intake to a level that they found acceptable. Dietary fiber intake, symptoms of constipation, difficulty in evacuation of stools, anal bleeding, abdominal bloating or abdominal pain were recorded at 1 and 6 mo.

RESULTS: The median age of the patients (16 male, 47 female) was 47 years (range, 20-80 years). At 6 mo, 41 patients remained on a no fiber diet, 16 on a reduced fiber diet, and 6 resumed their high fiber diet for religious or personal reasons. Patients who stopped or reduced dietary fiber had significant improvement in their symptoms while those who continued on a high fiber diet had no change. Of those who stopped fiber completely, the bowel frequency increased from one motion in 3.75 d (± 1.59 d) to one motion in 1.0 d (± 0.0 d) (P < 0.001); those with reduced fiber intake had increased bowel frequency from a mean of one motion per 4.19 d (± 2.09 d) to one motion per 1.9 d (± 1.21 d) on a reduced fiber diet (P < 0.001); those who remained on a high fiber diet continued to have a mean of one motion per 6.83 d (± 1.03 d) before and after consultation. For no fiber, reduced fiber and high fiber groups, respectively, symptoms of bloating were present in 0%, 31.3% and 100% (P < 0.001) and straining to pass stools occurred in 0%, 43.8% and 100% (P < 0.001).

CONCLUSION: Idiopathic constipation and its associated symptoms can be effectively reduced by stopping or even lowering the intake of dietary fiber.
Keywords: Dietary fiber, Constipation, Chronic idiopathic constipation, Abdominal bloating

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
 

cage

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Jun 27, 2010
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Why are you derailing with flouride which is unrelated to meat and health. I will post more info when I get home I can't copy links with a smartphone
Firstly, I was being facetious (although fluoride is a known neurotoxin that calcifies the pineal gland, but I digress).

I have been a healthcare professional for over 15 years, and hold a degree in Nutritional Science as well as a certification in Plant Based Nutrition from Cornell University. Your Google degree and subsequent penchant for cherry picking studies (your last study applies only to those suffering from continual and severe constipation - of which the majority of the population is not and never will be included based on that parameter). This type of misinformation and odd obsession society currently has with valuing the opinions of young "social media influencers" (the Frank Turfano videos are just painful to watch) over actual sound medical advice or just plain common sense is disheartening at best.
 
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