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Toronto Sun - Two-thirds of Canadians say carbon tax will affect vote: Poll

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
170
63
The Toronto Sun has a story about a poll by Forum Research on the carbon tax. If accurate, this looks problematic for the Trudeau government.

According to the poll, two-thirds of Canadians say the carbon tax will affect how they vote. And among those polled who have a position on the matter, a clear majority oppose the tax.

https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...n-tax-will-affect-their-vote-new-poll-reveals

To make matters worse for the government, the people who oppose the tax are reportedly more motivated to vote on election day than those who support it.

Of course, even if the poll is accurate, the regional breakdown will be important. And there's no way to predict what will ultimately emerge as the ballot question in October.

But it sure looks like the government's hysteria about a "climate emergency" isn't helping the government. Angus Reid recently reported that only 15% of Canadians think Trudeau is the federal leader who is best suited to deal with climate change.

http://angusreid.org/federal-issues-june2019/
 

Zaibetter

Banned
Mar 27, 2016
4,284
1
0
I was reading somewhere today that tax hike is going to be higher than first announced.
 

bluecolt

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2011
1,440
302
83
I was reading somewhere today that tax hike is going to be higher than first announced.
Zai, who ever heard of a tax bite being lower than first announced. They start it low and keep increasing it, like boiling a frog in cold water on the stove.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Here we go on polls again, yet again. Whatever for? Published polls are not the game. At best they're kinda like the Jurassic Park of politics. But not nearly as much fun.

They don't predict MP seat counts, they don't predict Electoral votes, both of which are the only things that matter in their respective nations. They're frequently wrong on overall vote counts as well, not to mention how often the issues are so evenly divided, their results fall within their margins of error. PollsterSpeak for, "we cannot be trusted on this".

The only thing we can be sure of is that anyone supporting any issue will waste bandwidth telling us about any poll that is even vaguely positive, and the other side will do the same. Neither will give a damn about reliability, or about what any poll reveals about the people and their thinking. It'll all be about percentages, as if they were actual scores. Then they'll go after each other's polls, with anything that sticks (or doesn't) and they'll continue beating the dead polls well after any official results.

As if the polls mattered.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
23,932
3,679
113
Carbon Tax, inaction on pipelines, more interested in jet-setting to one international elite party or another. All vote killers for me.

But MORE THAN ANY ONE REASON, I will never vote for anyone who states that Canada is guilty of genocide. That's just fucking crazy.

I am very disappointed in Trudeau. I had high hopes for him, but I now realize that I was wrong. He is nothing more than a GQ dressed empty shirt with no intellect at all. He needs to go.
 

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
3,410
547
113
Report warns Trudeau's carbon tax will go up a lot

Don’t say that you weren’t warned: For Justin Trudeau’s carbon tax to accomplish its goals, it will have to go up significantly.

The latest warning comes from the non-partisan Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO).

According to the PBO, Canada will need to boost its carbon tax from $50 a tonne in 2022 to between $102 and $138 a tonne by 2030 if Canada is to meet its Paris Agreement targets on greenhouse gas emissions.

The difference between $102 and $138 a tonne is dependent on the state of the economy and the price of oil over the next 11 years.

However, the PBO’s main estimate is that the carbon tax will need to rise to $102 a tonne by 2030 to close a gap of 79 Mt of emissions in order to meet Canada’s Paris Agreement targets. If the economy grows and oil and gas production increases, emissions could be 55 Mt higher meaning a gap of 134 Mt.

“The additional carbon price needed to achieve the Paris target with a gap of 134 Mt would rise from $10 per tonne in 2023 to $88 per tonne in 2030,” the report reads.

Let’s be honest, talking in mega tonnes and a carbon price per tonne is gibberish to most of us. What does it mean in real terms?

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...t-says-trudeaus-carbon-tax-will-rise-by-a-lot
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
23,932
3,679
113


Let’s be honest, talking in mega tonnes and a carbon price per tonne is gibberish to most of us. What does it mean in real terms?

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...t-says-trudeaus-carbon-tax-will-rise-by-a-lot


It means the law of conservation of mass.

Which says that matter is neither created nor destroyed in the process of a chemical reaction.

For example, you start out with a tonne of coal and you burn it. You are left with maybe 300 kg of fly ash (nice round numbers). That other 700 kg didn't disappear, it was transformed into something else. In the case of coal, it was transformed into C02, CO, SO2, etc. etc and if you add it all up, you'd still be left with a tonne. (The only exception being a nuclear reaction. But I digress.)

So all those tonnes of coal, or tonnes of fuel oil, or tonnes of gasoline don't disappear, they end up in the atmosphere in another form.

That part I get.

It's Grade 12 Chemistry.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,819
1,603
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99% of Canadians say climate change will negatively affect life on earth
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
99% of Canadians say climate change will negatively affect life on earth
And as soon as they find out how fighting it will hit their family budget, 2/3 of them learn how to live with it. Magic.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
And as soon as they find out how fighting it will hit their family budget, 2/3 of them learn how to live with it. Magic.
Actually 100% of us are learning how to live with this new reality. It's just that there are still a lot of slower kids who'd rather to sit at the bottom of the class than try.

Their determined ignorance now won't make the reality any less painful when they can't avoid it any longer — which is every time they go out or the water comes in. They'll just be that much less well equipped.

Pay a little low or a whole lot later, but you will pay. TANSTAAFL
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
Actually 100% of us are learning how to live with this new reality. It's just that there are still a lot of slower kids who'd rather to sit at the bottom of the class than try.

Their determined ignorance now won't make the reality any less painful when they can't avoid it any longer — which is every time they go out or the water comes in. They'll just be that much less well equipped.

Pay a little low or a whole lot later, but you will pay. TANSTAAFL
You do know the story about the boy who cried wolf, right? That's the climate warriors in a nutshell. They've been serving their catastrophic predictions for over a generation. When those failed to materialize, their target audience just decided to prioritize.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
79,731
17,567
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You do know the story about the boy who cried wolf, right? That's the climate warriors in a nutshell. They've been serving their catastrophic predictions for over a generation. When those failed to materialize, their target audience just decided to prioritize.
I'm still amazed that there are people so clueless as to think climate change is not happening.
You must have to work really hard to ignore reality these days.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
I'm still amazed that there are people so clueless as to think climate change is not happening.
You must have to work really hard to ignore reality these days.
It still amazed me that there are people who are willing to buy the snake oil. Climate always changes, but were I you, I wouldn't be trading your bicycle for a kayak.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
It still amazed me that there are people who are willing to buy the snake oil. Climate always changes, but were I you, I wouldn't be trading your bicycle for a kayak.
Indeed, better to use snake-oil profits — that market is eternal — to buy both. The carbon footprint from human energy we can still cope with. Whatever the consequences of this most recent climate change (ones in the past were brutal civilization-changing and extinction events) we do know you'll be able to use both. Farting guzzlers like the one in your driveway, likely not.

Not that you — or your kids and grandkids — are likely to have driveways.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
6,289
113
CBC has an interesting piece today. Harper (with several of Scheer's people as ministers) committed Canada to cuts and the cuts have costs. Either that cost gets paid for by carbon taxes or the cost gets paid for by regulations which potentially cost companies (and therefore customers) even more money.

Unless Scheer and Harper's people are now saying they were wrong...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/parliamentary-budget-officer-climate-carbon-tax-1.5175774


But it is a good fake issue to make commercials about.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
6,289
113
...Climate always changes,....
Rapid climate change has significant economic and personal costs. Yes we have had things like ice ages but how well do you think the economy will do if we had another one?
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
Indeed, better to use snake-oil profits — that market is eternal — to buy both. The carbon footprint from human energy we can still cope with. Whatever the consequences of this most recent climate change (ones in the past were brutal civilization-changing and extinction events) we do know you'll be able to use both. Farting guzzlers like the one in your driveway, likely not.

Not that you — or your kids and grandkids — are likely to have driveways.
As societies grow richer, the people start demanding cleaner and safer surrounding. And they're willing to pay for it. Within reason. Start using fascist methods and, even worse, threaten their economic stability and they will turn on you like a hooded snake- as the French(and others) are finding out. You can achieve almost any environmental goal if you do it gradually, keeping the economic and social costs at the forefront. Disregard them and you'll end up as the French President or Elizabeth May. I remember, as a kid, when the snow would turn black in the second day and you actually had to take a shower after walking in the rain. None of that, beside China, is happening, anymore.
 
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