Bar server faces criminal negligence charges in hockey players drunk driving deaths

There is a similar situation at a bar own by Tiger Woods where I think he is facing a civil lawsuit but not criminal charges. (Our company no longer hold Christmas parties because of the potential liability issues. Instead, each employee gets a prepaid VISA card to use for their own personal celebration.)

Don't servers in Ontario have to have a "safe serve" course to try prevent guys going home drunk?

bazokajoe said:

Don't servers in Ontario have to have a "safe serve" course to try prevent guys going home drunk?

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Yup, its actually called "Smart Serve"

unassuming said:

Yup, its actually called "Smart Serve"

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Thanks for the correction. After reading the article both sides can be blamed. What's the use of having this program if it isn't enforced.

They were underage, so negligence seems like a fair charge. It's not hard to spot a group of underage dudes is it?

rafterman said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/renfrew-calabogie-drunk-driving-1.5140186?cmp=rss

Tragic situation. Have to say the drunk driver is pretty culpable. Sounds like the town, Renfrew, is split over the charges.

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It's been the law for decades that the bar and servers are liable even if they refuse service.

Smallcock said:

They were underage, so negligence seems like a fair charge. It's not hard to spot a group of underage dudes is it?

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If they were underage owner of the car should be charged as well.

I believe there isn't one single family that has not been tragically affected by alcohol in some way or another.

I hate the stuff, at the pit of my depression I wanted to torch an LCBO, and have a huge signed blaming that shit for every bad thing that happened to me

That being said, thought is one thing actions to that thought another. Had I torch the LCBO at 18 I would be prosecuted as an adult.

At 18 this men, which is what they are, knew better than drink and drive and knew they were breaking the law.

I hate how we always make others responsible for the lack of responsibility of others.

The bar tender is not a baby sitter there should be high fines for teens, Adults 18, for breaking the law.

What about Molson? Is it less responsible than those who
serve its product?
Molson and the rest of the beer industry are for reasons
beyond my comprehension squeaky clean in their image by
comparison with Philip Morris. It is an industry knowingly
sell a product known to be the cause of impaired driving, domestic
violence and deadly diseases like cirrhosis. Instead of making
some bar server the scapegoat it is time to hold the beer
industry to be the ultimate culprit of death caused
by impaired driving.

icespot said:

I believe there isn't one single family that has not been tragically affected by alcohol in some way or another.

I hate the stuff, at the pit of my depression I wanted to torch an LCBO, and have a huge signed blaming that shit for every bad thing that happened to me

That being said, thought is one thing actions to that thought another. Had I torch the LCBO at 18 I would be prosecuted as an adult.

At 18 this men, which is what they are, knew better than drink and drive and knew they were breaking the law.

I hate how we always make others responsible for the lack of responsibility of others.

The bar tender is not a baby sitter there should be high fines for teens, Adults 18, for breaking the law.

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Preach!!!!!

I hate the stuff as well and I'm also sick of it always being someone else's fault. For my ex, drinking was a big problem and everything he did, all the abuse I suffered when he was drunk was always the fault of the booze, never himself. It was the boozes fault that he hit me or the final straw when he came into my bedroom at 2am and decide we were having sex whether I wanted to or not. He is not a rapist though because it was the fault of the bottle wine and what ever beer or liquor was added to that.

Now this is someone else's fault that drunken men got behind the wheel and had a deadly crash. Charging the bartender just says the same thing. It was the boozes fault so anyone sober should have done something because the booze took over these men. Fuck that I say!

oil&gas said:

What about Molson? Is it less responsible than those who
serve its product?
Molson and the rest of the beer industry are for reasons
beyond my comprehension squeaky clean in their image by
comparison with Philip Morris. It is an industry knowingly
sell a product known to be the cause of impaired driving, domestic
violence and deadly diseases like cirrhosis. Instead of making
some bar server the scapegoat it is time to hold the beer
industry to be the ultimate culprit of death caused
by impaired driving.

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Very valid point. We got after tobacco companies, drug companies, gunn companies but never booze. I wonder why???

i have held many liquor licences in the past. There is a workshop you must take. Imagine you the bar owner and a patron locked in a room. the more the patron uses alcohol the more you (the bar owner) is responsible for the patrons life. The responsibility shifts in this province from patron to owner with every drink you serve. That's no joke
SM

bazokajoe said:

Don't servers in Ontario have to have a "safe serve" course to try prevent guys going home drunk?

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A bartender can serve hundreds of people each night. While it's reasonable to expect them to both ask for ID and refuse alcohol to someone who appears "over the limit", how can one expect them to know the BAC of every person?

Not to mention which ones make the decision to drive home? Short of standing at the exit and making everyone who leaves, take a breathalyzer test, how can a server possibly police that? How can they possibly be responsible? Heck, they have no clue how many drinks a person has had before they show up to the bar.

Lots of people don't appear to be intoxicated, but their BAC could be in the .08 to .10 range. If this woman is convicted of criminal charges, servers should be very afraid of such a precedence.

Jessica Rain said:

Preach!!!!!

I hate the stuff as well and I'm also sick of it always being someone else's fault. For my ex, drinking was a big problem and everything he did, all the abuse I suffered when he was drunk was always the fault of the booze, never himself. It was the boozes fault that he hit me or the final straw when he came into my bedroom at 2am and decide we were having sex whether I wanted to or not. He is not a rapist though because it was the fault of the bottle wine and what ever beer or liquor was added to that.

Now this is someone else's fault that drunken men got behind the wheel and had a deadly crash. Charging the bartender just says the same thing. It was the boozes fault so anyone sober should have done something because the booze took over these men. Fuck that I say!

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In my case it was my ex, She used to beat the shit out of me, one time she hit me for 30 minutes straight, I locked my self in her bathroom and waited 1 hr and 45 min, came out only to have her stab me on the shoulder with my car keys, which she had hidden from me so I wouldn't leave. the next day at work when people asked I told them I was play fight with my kids and they got carried away. no one believed me. But she would later say "It never came from my love for you, it came from my anger and the alcohol." Her anger would be the result of me not wanting to kiss her. She had three impaired charges and got off every single one of them, by blaming her drunk driving on abusive men that made her drink, mean time she was the abuser.

Also, at 14 I was jumped by three adult males in their early 20's, because I stop them from sexually assaulting my friend. At court the oldest got reprimand and order to rehabilitation, what a fucking jock, blamed the whole thing on alcohol, this was the 80s.

My grand father was a peace officer and he was shot and killed by his drunken best friend, because he had arrested him for beating up his wife and sending her to the hospital.

The list goes on and on, hate alcohol, we should have made illigal instead of weed. So yeah I wanted to burn the LCBO, that way they couldn't blame the alcohol for all their shit.

And now we have num nut Ford wanting people to consume more of that shit.

oil&gas said:

What about Molson? Is it less responsible than those who
serve its product?
Molson and the rest of the beer industry are for reasons
beyond my comprehension squeaky clean in their image by
comparison with Philip Morris. It is an industry knowingly
sell a product known to be the cause of impaired driving, domestic
violence and deadly diseases like cirrhosis. Instead of making
some bar server the scapegoat it is time to hold the beer
industry to be the ultimate culprit of death caused
by impaired driving.

Click to expand...

Very well said.....

Why stop at the bartender ?
Charge the alcohol company, the person who delivered the booze, the bar, the car manufacturer, hell let's go after the city too for making shitty roads.
Everyone but the actual person involved who decided to drink and drive

basketcase said:

It's been the law for decades that the bar and servers are liable even if they refuse service.

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What???? Why on God's green earth would the bar and servers be liable if they refused to serve them. That makes zero sense and something tells me your confusing some facts here.

bazokajoe said:

Thanks for the correction. After reading the article both sides can be blamed. What's the use of having this program if it isn't enforced.

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The program is just another government cash grab. Just like the gun registry. Having your "smart serve certificate" is only as good as the person actually serving the drinks.