Toronto Escorts

Ferry service proposed between Humber Bay Shores and Yonge Street

canada-man

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Toronto, Ontario
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A private water taxi company is floating the idea of bringing a ferry service to Humber Bay Shores that would take commuters from the area to downtown Toronto during rush hour.

The Otter Guy Inc. is holding a public meeting in order to judge public interest in the new route.

The ferry would run six trips per day between 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. and between 4:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. Monday to Friday from Humber Bay Shores to the Yonge Street taxi terminal. There would also be ferries on the weekend to provide service to the Toronto Islands.

The company said they have purchased an electric, 200-passenger high-speed catamaran that intends to address global warming, pollution and the transit issues in Humber Bay Shores.

President Alex Nosal said the boat will take four months to build, but they are waiting until they have full support from the city as the company would need a lease for the dock at Humber Bay.

Nosal adds they have been in contact with Councillor Mark Grimes and the Parks department and were told if sufficient support from the community exists, the city would be happy to assist in setting up the proposed service.

https://www.680news.com/2019/05/20/...d-between-humber-bay-shores-and-yonge-street/

The town hall meeting is being held at the Polish Alliance hall at 2282 Lake Shore Blvd W. at 7 p.m. on May 30.

Toronto has worked in the past in an attempt to provide better transit service to rapidly growing area of Humber Bay Shores, including introducing a shuttle to the Mimico GO station last summer.
 

jcpro

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Jan 31, 2014
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Couple problems. The service would be seasonal (unlike the Islands service it would be in unprotected waters) and don't forget ice. The city will insist on a complete ferry facility in the West end without financings it. A better idea would be a hover service from Niagara or St. Catherines using modern hover craft technology like in Europe. 20 min trip in all weather conditions including complete ice cover.
 

farquhar

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Jan 25, 2019
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Couple problems. The service would be seasonal (unlike the Islands service it would be in unprotected waters) and don't forget ice. The city will insist on a complete ferry facility in the West end without financings it. A better idea would be a hover service from Niagara or St. Catherines using modern hover craft technology like in Europe. 20 min trip in all weather conditions including complete ice cover.
Remember the Hovercraft between TO and Rochester 15 years ago? This idea has been tried before, and it failed.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Couple problems. The service would be seasonal (unlike the Islands service it would be in unprotected waters) and don't forget ice. The city will insist on a complete ferry facility in the West end without financings it. A better idea would be a hover service from Niagara or St. Catherines using modern hover craft technology like in Europe. 20 min trip in all weather conditions including complete ice cover.
Most years the Island ferry isn't even iced in, chances are it would run 9/10 years full year. Out in the lake it doesn't ice over that much, its only in the harbour and closer to the city.
 

explorerzip

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There was never a hovercraft in between Toronto and Rochester. The ferry that ran between the two cities was a high speed catamaran, which is very different from a hovercraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC_Virgen_de_Coromoto

The Toronto Fire Department routinely runs ice breaking ships in Toronto harbor, which makes icing on the lake largely a non-issue. I don't think they would break the ice further afield specifically near Humber Bay though.

The bigger issues I see with a ferry between Humber Bay and downtown would be where to construct a pier in the West end. There's a lot of parkland in the Humber Bay area that people won't be keen to let go of for construction of a pier, wider roads, parking, etc. There's also the issue of boat traffic near the Western gap at the foot of Bathurst Street. In the summer time, there's a lot of pleasure boat traffic especially in the area around the airport, National Yacht Club and Ontario Place Marina. Then you have the airport and Toronto island ferries going back and forth.

To make a ferry economically viable it would have to be either faster or the same speed as driving downtown and operate near capacity.
 

Insidious Von

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Sep 12, 2007
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I don't see a Marina going up at the Humber River. Local residents have put money into restoring the area to what it once was, they would make a Marina there a Municipal Election issue and it could become to John Tory what garbage was to David Miller. A Marina at the foot of Royal York would make more sense and revive an economically depressed area.

The ferry service between Rochester and Toronto has always been geographically problematic. Rochester is further east of Toronto, navigating the choppy waters of Lake Ontario is challenging making the trip diagonally. Economically it would be very good for Rochester and reduce the traffic at Buffalo.

 

jcpro

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There was never a hovercraft in between Toronto and Rochester. The ferry that ran between the two cities was a high speed catamaran, which is very different from a hovercraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC_Virgen_de_Coromoto

The Toronto Fire Department routinely runs ice breaking ships in Toronto harbor, which makes icing on the lake largely a non-issue. I don't think they would break the ice further afield specifically near Humber Bay though.

The bigger issues I see with a ferry between Humber Bay and downtown would be where to construct a pier in the West end. There's a lot of parkland in the Humber Bay area that people won't be keen to let go of for construction of a pier, wider roads, parking, etc. There's also the issue of boat traffic near the Western gap at the foot of Bathurst Street. In the summer time, there's a lot of pleasure boat traffic especially in the area around the airport, National Yacht Club and Ontario Place Marina. Then you have the airport and Toronto island ferries going back and forth.

To make a ferry economically viable it would have to be either faster or the same speed as driving downtown and operate near capacity.
I've seen the ice breaking in the harbour this winter. I even had the pleasure of getting stuck in ice on the ferry one fine, but very cold evening. And that was in the protected waters. Boats require docking facilities, handling and are slow. An hovercraft like Griffon with a crew of 3, 80 seats, a diesel electric drive at 45kn doesn't need specialized docking facilities- just a boat ramp and it can travel in all conditions. Niagara on the Lake to the bottom of the Bay St. in 20-30 min.
 

explorerzip

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I've seen the ice breaking in the harbour this winter. I even had the pleasure of getting stuck in ice on the ferry one fine, but very cold evening. And that was in the protected waters. Boats require docking facilities, handling and are slow. An hovercraft like Griffon with a crew of 3, 80 seats, a diesel electric drive at 45kn doesn't need specialized docking facilities- just a boat ramp and it can travel in all conditions. Niagara on the Lake to the bottom of the Bay St. in 20-30 min.
There are no boat ramps in the Bay Street area. Certainly none that can accommodate a hovercraft of all things. That area is where the existing ferry docks are located along with parks, condos, etc. I suppose you could build a facility past Parliament and Lakeshore, but that largely defeats the purpose of a downtown ferry.

A hovercraft isn't magic and can still be affected by high winds and waves. Perhaps technology can mitigate these problems, but that would be a very big gamble. At the end of the day, the economics have to make sense for a private company to operate such a ferry service.
 

explorerzip

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I never knew about the Toronto to Rochester ferry but it sounds like it was done poorly.
They were betting too much on Rochester being a draw for tourism, which it wasn't and likely never will. There are many other places one could spend time and money on vs Rochester.
 

drstrangelove

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Mar 26, 2004
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I think the whole point of the proposal is to have an alternative transportation option for the large number of people now concentrated in the Humber Bay area, something other than the Gardiner or Lakeshore. Even is it couldn't run 12 months of the year, even 8 or 9 months would be better than nothing. It will be interesting to see if there is sufficient interest.
 

farquhar

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Jan 25, 2019
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I think the whole point of the proposal is to have an alternative transportation option for the large number of people now concentrated in the Humber Bay area, something other than the Gardiner or Lakeshore. Even is it couldn't run 12 months of the year, even 8 or 9 months would be better than nothing. It will be interesting to see if there is sufficient interest.
I recall the idea was floated to demolish Mimico GO Station and build a new GO Station at Park Lawn on the site of the former Mr. Christie's Factory. I think that would have been a more practical long-term solution.

The TO to Rochester Ferry was too ambitious and had financial and logistical problems from day one, which doomed it to failure. There is a need for better transit options in the Humber Bay area; if a private company has to step in and provide it, then so be it.

In my opinion, The City should have dug up King or Queen 20 years ago and put the subway in from Roncesvalles to Parliament; so that today we could be talking about extending that line to Park Lawn in the West and the Beaches in the East.

The Lakeshore West GO Train now runs 3 times an hour outside rush hour; GO Train could move more people daily than a hovercraft.
 

jcpro

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There are no boat ramps in the Bay Street area. Certainly none that can accommodate a hovercraft of all things. That area is where the existing ferry docks are located along with parks, condos, etc. I suppose you could build a facility past Parliament and Lakeshore, but that largely defeats the purpose of a downtown ferry.

A hovercraft isn't magic and can still be affected by high winds and waves. Perhaps technology can mitigate these problems, but that would be a very big gamble. At the end of the day, the economics have to make sense for a private company to operate such a ferry service.
The hovercrafts are running to the Isle of White on much rougher waters than anything lake Ontario can offer. There are plenty of places available between Bathurst and Lower Jarvis to accommodate a landing site as they're very compact and the vessels themselves are not large like the seventies crafts. I worked for quite a few years on various projects along the waterfront downtown and the only real obstacle is the city's government that's not flexible enough to look at other solutions. Bottom line is that the Lakeshore and the Gardiner are over capacity, already. The TTC cannot even provide the transportation solution to the Liberty Village and that's in the core. The bottom of Humber is about to be completely covered by high rises and the Queen's Quay area is looking an another 20-30 developments. Not to mention the north side of the of the Gardiner to 427. That's all slated for condos. How are those people going to move?
 

Phil C. McNasty

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A much better idea would be a massive bridge from DT Toronto to St. Catherines. Thats only about 50km long or so, and wouldnt even be close to the longest bridges in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges

This would also open up the entire Niagara region to new housing and commerce as well.
You could make it a toll bridge and that sucker will have paid for itself in 40 to 50 years
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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They were betting too much on Rochester being a draw for tourism,
If the ferry allowed private cars, one doesn't have to stay in Rochester. No, I never took that ferry.

Years ago, we decided to drive to NYC instead of flying. Big mistake. We had to go around Lake Ontario and then south to NYC. It took 11 hours. Traffic was horrible as we got closer to NYC. A ferry would cut the time by at least 3 hours.

Question: Two lifetimes ago I took the Port Angeles ferry but I can't remember why. Does anybody know why?
 

explorerzip

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The hovercrafts are running to the Isle of White on much rougher waters than anything lake Ontario can offer. There are plenty of places available between Bathurst and Lower Jarvis to accommodate a landing site as they're very compact and the vessels themselves are not large like the seventies crafts. I worked for quite a few years on various projects along the waterfront downtown and the only real obstacle is the city's government that's not flexible enough to look at other solutions. Bottom line is that the Lakeshore and the Gardiner are over capacity, already. The TTC cannot even provide the transportation solution to the Liberty Village and that's in the core. The bottom of Humber is about to be completely covered by high rises and the Queen's Quay area is looking an another 20-30 developments. Not to mention the north side of the of the Gardiner to 427. That's all slated for condos. How are those people going to move?
The only way you're going to accommodate a hovercraft landing site between Bathurst and Jarvis is if you expropriate park land, which is largely a non-starter. Then you have to alter the shore line to create a concrete launching ramp. Then you have the noise made by the fans. I don't know exactly loud they are, but they're definitely not quiet once you combine road noise, the island airport, etc. So you have a hovercraft service that would be hamstrung by noise complaints from residents.

A ferry service could be a good thing, but it still must make economic sense regardless if the city or private sector builds it. Otherwise we end up building yet another white elephant project.

I don't know how many commercial hovercraft routes there are around the world, but they are likely very few still around. There used to be a route between Hong Kong and Macau, but that was replaced with high-speed catamarans / hydrofoils. If Hong Kong gave up on it (and it had the passenger numbers to make it viable), does it really make sense for Toronto?
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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If the ferry allowed private cars, one doesn't have to stay in Rochester. No, I never took that ferry.

Years ago, we decided to drive to NYC instead of flying. Big mistake. We had to go around Lake Ontario and then south to NYC. It took 11 hours. Traffic was horrible as we got closer to NYC. A ferry would cut the time by at least 3 hours.

Question: Two lifetimes ago I took the Port Angeles ferry but I can't remember why. Does anybody know why?
The company likely thought there was not much of a market for people to drive from Toronto to other destinations in New York State including NYC. So they never marketed the service properly.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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A much better idea would be a massive bridge from DT Toronto to St. Catherines. Thats only about 50km long or so, and wouldnt even be close to the longest bridges in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_bridges

This would also open up the entire Niagara region to new housing and commerce as well.
You could make it a toll bridge and that sucker will have paid for itself in 40 to 50 years
We're talking about a ferry between Humber Bay in Toronto to downtown Toronto. A bridge across Lake Ontario between downtown Toronto and St. Catherines would have to be high enough to deal with commercial shipping traffic.
 

Iceman2316

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Apr 14, 2019
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We're talking about a ferry between Humber Bay in Toronto to downtown Toronto. A bridge across Lake Ontario between downtown Toronto and St. Catherines would have to be high enough to deal with commercial shipping traffic.
A bridge between St Catharines and Toronto? I worked on the ships of the great lakes for 30 years. You do realize how deep Lake Ontario is. Across the lake there is places 400+ feet deep. Do you realize how difficult it would be to build a bridge? It would and could never happen. And the ferry service never seems to work. Its ok in nice weather but soon as the lake has a bit of a chop the biggest part of the passengers will get sick.
 

icespot

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Jul 7, 2005
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A better idea would be to develop a system that would benefit all and ready our roads strategically for the future....self driven vehicles.

It really is not that difficult and we already have the technology to do it.

All it really comes down to is providing more information to drivers in real time.

So we start with....

1) a phone app that we can log in our trip.

2) the app gives our location to a main frame.

3) Main frame knows where, every vehicle is going and coming from.

4) Main frame tells phone app to tell driver route and speed. Speed will depend on traffic flow.

5) Drivers that fail to fallow instructions receive a ticket, for example speeding, dangerous driving.

6) app will also transmit to a transponder signal that driver should be on road and location heading.

7) vehicles with out app permission get photo radar and police can be dispatched.

How this helps for the future, it is setting the foundation for what's coming.

How I came up with the idea and know it will work.

I was a conveyor operator for 4 years....

 

jcpro

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The hovercrafts are running to the Isle of White on much rougher waters than anything lake Ontario can offer. There are plenty of places available between Bathurst and Lower Jarvis to accommodate a landing site as they're very compact and the vessels themselves are not large like the seventies crafts. I worked for quite a few years on various projects along the waterfront downtown and the only real obstacle is the city's government that's not flexible enough to look at other solutions. Bottom line is that the Lakeshore and the Gardiner are over capacity, already. The TTC cannot even provide the transportation solution to the Liberty Village and that's in the core. The bottom of Humber is about to be completely covered by high rises and the Queen's Quay area is looking an another 20-30 developments. Not to mention the north side of the of the Gardiner to 427. That's all slated for condos. How are those people going to move?
A 20x50 concrete ramp beside the Alexandros will do the job just fine. In an underused basin. You can put another one beside the Mimico yacht club and another in Port Credit, etc. The possibilities are plentiful.
 
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