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Hitler Was Incompetent and Lazy—and His Nazi Government Was an Absolute Clown Show

Zaibetter

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How Nazis courted the Islamic world during WWII

Tens of thousands of Muslims fought for the Nazis in World War Two. DW spoke with historian David Motadel about whether pragmatism or anti-Semitism drove Adolf Hitler's overtures and why some Muslim leaders backed him.

David Motadel: At the height of the war in 1941-1942, when German troops entered Muslim-populated territories in the Balkans, North Africa, Crimea, and the Caucasus, and approached the Middle East and Central Asia, Berlin began to see Islam as politically significant. Nazi Germany made significant attempts to promote an alliance with the "Muslim world" against their alleged common enemies — the British Empire, the Soviet Union, America and Jews.



In the war zones, Germany engaged with a wide range of religious policies and propaganda to promote the Nazi regime as the patron of Islam. As early as 1941, the Wehrmacht distributed the military handbook "Islam" to train its soldiers to behave correctly towards Muslim populations. On the eastern Front, the Nazi occupiers ordered the rebuilding of mosques, prayer halls, and madrasas — previously destroyed by Moscow — and the re-establishment of religious rituals and celebrations in order to undermine Soviet rule.

German military authorities also made extensive efforts to co-opt Islamic dignitaries. German propagandists in the eastern territories, the Balkans, and North Africa tried to use religious rhetoric, vocabulary and iconography to mobilize Muslims. They politicized sacred texts like the Quran as well as religious imperatives, most notably the concept of jihad, in order to foment religious violence for political ends.

From 1941 onwards, the Nazi Wehrmacht army and the paramilitary SS recruited tens of thousands of Muslims, mainly to save German blood. Muslim soldiers fought on all fronts. German army officials granted these recruits a wide range of religious concessions, even lifting the ban on ritual slaughter, a practice that had been prohibited for anti-Semitic reasons by Hitler's Law for the Protection of Animals of 1933.

A widespread assumption exists that Muslims supported the Nazi Regime because they shared an anti-Semitic perspective. This is precisely why the Nazis tried to get Muslims on the regime's side. What can you tell us about this assumption?

On the German side pragmatic, strategic interests were the most important driving force behind this policy. In its propaganda, however, especially in the Arab world, anti-Semitic themes played an important role. Anti-Semitic propaganda was often connected to attacks against the Zionist migration to Palestine which had emerged as a main topic in Arab political discourses.

On the Muslim side one cannot generalize. Some of the Muslim allies of the Nazi regime — most importantly the famous Mufti of Jerusalem — shared the Nazis' Jew-hatred. In the war zones, in the Balkans, in North Africa, and in the Eastern territories, the picture is more complicated. In many of these regions, Muslims and Jews had lived together for centuries. And in some cases, Muslims would now help their Jewish neighbors, for example hiding them from the Germans.

What goals did the Nazi regime pursue with its attempt to persuade Muslims to join them and what were sympathetic Muslim leaders hoping for?

The Third Reich's engagement with Islam was not only that Muslim-populated regions had become part of the war zones, but also, more importantly, that from 1941 to 1942, Germany's military situation had deteriorated. In the Soviet Union, Hitler's Blitzkrieg strategy had failed. As the Wehrmacht came under pressure, strategists in Berlin began to seek broader war coalitions, thereby demonstrating remarkable pragmatism. The courtship of Muslims was to pacify the occupied Muslim-populated territories and to mobilize Muslims to fight on the side of Hitler's armies.

Many of those Muslims who worked with the Nazi regime had pragmatic reasons. They believed that Nazi Germany in 1941-1942 would be victorious and that it would determine the future world order and that the Nazis could help them become liberated from, for example, British imperial rule.

The motives of these soldiers varied considerably. Of course some recruits were driven by religious hatred and anti-Bolshevist, ideological fervor. Overall, however, Muslims often had rather profane motives for enlisting.

Did the Nazis really see Islam as something inherently positive or were the Muslims only a means to an end?

Overall, I think that Muslims were means to an end. Nazi policies towards Islam were informed by pragmatism. Some leading Nazis, particularly Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler, repeatedly expressed their respect for Islam. Whenever denouncing the Catholic Church, Hitler routinely contrasted it with Islam. While he denounced Catholicism as a weak, effeminate religion, he praised Islam as a strong, aggressive, martial religion. Overall, however, it was strategic considerations, not ideology, that led to Nazi Germany's campaign for Islamic mobilization.

Read more: The 'good German doctor' who saved Greek lives during WWII occupation

Wasn't Nazi racism a major obstacle to collaborating with Muslims?

Hitler had already postulated the racial inferiority of non-European peoples in "Mein Kampf." Once in power, however, German officials showed themselves to be more pragmatic: Non-Jewish Turks, Iranians and Arabs had already been explicitly exempted from any official racial discrimination in the 1930s, following diplomatic interventions from the governments in Tehran, Ankara, and Cairo. And during the war the Germans showed similar pragmatism. Muslims everywhere, it was clear to every German officer, were to be treated as allies.

The realities on the ground were by no means straightforward. In the first months of the Nazi invasion of Russia, SS squads executed thousands of Muslims on the assumption that their circumcision showed that they were Jewish. Eventually, Reinhard Heydrich, chief Nazi security officer, sent out a directive cautioning the task force executing squads to be more careful. On the southern fringes of the Soviet Union, however, German killing squads still had difficulties distinguishing Muslims from Jews. Moreover, in North Africa, the Balkans, and on the Eastern Front, German soldiers were confronted with diverse Muslim populations, including Muslim Roma and Jewish converts to Islam.

https://www.dw.com/cda/en/how-nazis-courted-the-islamic-world-during-wwii/a-41358387
 
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OnTheWayOut

Yes you are the Ignorant one if you do not know the meaning of "IGNORE" and have not brought any substance to the table, but just want to stalk me. That is all you are good at!! Why can you not put me on ignore like I do with you, and have never responded to your IGNORANT posts, until you respond to mine?????
I do ignore you most of the time, it's only when you get too ridiculous I feel the need to comment. I don't feel a need to use the ignore feature here, I can ignore you just fine without any help - IF I feel like it. You can put me on ignore or whatever floats your boat, I'll do what I like without your input thanks.

Your idea of "substance" appears to be making up false accusations. So yeah, I don't get involved with such idiotic drivel. I just call it out and watch you squirm when you can't defend it. Watching you come unhinged is quite amusing.

You throw the same old rhetoric but when you get called out for blatantly making up BS you cannot produce anything relevant to back up your wild claims and then you get all huffy. Try honesty and sticking to facts for once. Oh yeah, your an alt left extremist, that is not in your makeup. I keep asking for the impossible.
 

HungSowel

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Mar 3, 2017
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Hitler may have been a stable genius at the start of the war, but what is most important is that when the pressure was on and he started to lose; he went retarded and retreated into a world of make-believe.
 
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OnTheWayOut

Well the comparisons to Trump are glaringly obvious... that is why the rightists are defending Hitler. Sad and pathetic, but true.
I don't see anyone defending Hitler. Disagreeing with the statement that Hitler was lazy and incompetent is not defending him. Seems plenty of lefties have disagreed as well .... there goes your argument.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Considering your continual excuses for Hamas which shares the same goals as Hitler....
Is your whine tasting of bile again?

Israel apparently thinks that the bible has given them all of Palestine, that this is their 'holy' right. How is that better than Hamas?
”From the book of Genesis; to the Jewish exodus from Egypt; to receiving the Torah on Mount Sinai; to the gates of Canaan; and to the realization of God’s covenant in the Holy Land of Israel; the Bible paints a consistent picture. The entire history of our people, and our connection to Eretz Yisrael, begins right here,” Danon stated at the UN Security council in New York.
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Israeli-ambassadors-Bible-speech-at-UN-goes-viral-589986

I have no idea, and I expect you don't either, of what Hamas' goals are.
What we do know is that Israel's actions, whatever you think those goals are, have included gunning down civilians, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and a host of other war crimes.

Until you can take a country or government to the ICC for 'goals' you'll have to watch them start cases on 'actions'.
You need to stop supporting the very acts you pretend to be against.

Tell us why you think Israel is the 'most moral army in the world' as clearly stated by one of their generals:
General Fogel’s comments are reflective of the Israeli government view of how to control the “Palestinian problem.” Only the rights, including the right to life, of Israeli Jews are legitimate and Arabs should be grateful for what the Jewish state allows them to have.

Fogel responded to interviewer Ron Nesiel’s first question “Should the IDF [Israeli army] rethink its use of snipers?” by saying that “Any person who gets close to the fence, anyone who could be a future threat to the border of the State of Israel and its residents, should bear a price for that violation. If this child or anyone else gets close to the fence in order to hide an explosive device or check if there are any dead zones there or to cut the fence so someone could infiltrate the territory of the State of Israel to kill us …”

Nesiel: “Then, then his punishment is death?”

Fogel: “His punishment is death. As far as I’m concerned then yes, if you can only shoot him to stop him, in the leg or arm – great. But if it’s more than that then, yes, you want to check with me whose blood is thicker, ours or theirs. It is clear to you that if one such person will manage to cross the fence or hide an explosive device there …”

Nesiel: “But we were taught that live fire is only used when the soldiers face immediate danger. … It does not do all that well for us, those pictures that are distributed around the world.”

Fogel: “I know how these orders are given. I know how a sniper does the shooting. I know how many authorizations he needs before he receives an authorization to open fire. It is not the whim of one or the other sniper who identifies the small body of a child now and decides he’ll shoot. Someone marks the target for him very well and tells him exactly why one has to shoot and what the threat is from that individual. And to my great sorrow, sometimes when you shoot at a small body and you intended to hit his arm or shoulder it goes even higher. The picture is not a pretty picture. But if that’s the price that we have to pay to preserve the safety and quality of life of the residents of the State of Israel, then that’s the price.

“[And] look, Ron, we’re even terrible at it [at suppressing those pictures]. There’s nothing to be done, David always looks better against Goliath. And in this case, we are the Goliath. Not the David. That is entirely clear to me. … It will drag us into a war. I do not want to be on the side that gets dragged. I want to be on the side that initiates things. I do not want to wait for the moment where it finds a weak spot and attacks me there. If tomorrow morning it gets into a military base or a kibbutz and kills people there and takes prisoners of war or hostages, call it as you like, we’re in a whole new script. I want the leaders of Hamas to wake up tomorrow morning and for the last time in their life see the smiling faces of the IDF. That’s what I want to have happen. But we are dragged along. So we’re putting snipers up because we want to preserve the values we were educated by. We can’t always take a single picture and put it before the whole world. We have soldiers there, our children, who were sent out and receive very accurate instructions about whom to shoot to protect us. Let’s back them up.”
http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-war-criminals-in-their-own-words/
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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I do ignore you most of the time, it's only when you get too ridiculous I feel the need to comment. I don't feel a need to use the ignore feature here, I can ignore you just fine without any help - IF I feel like it. You can put me on ignore or whatever floats your boat, I'll do what I like without your input thanks.

Your idea of "substance" appears to be making up false accusations. So yeah, I don't get involved with such idiotic drivel. I just call it out and watch you squirm when you can't defend it. Watching you come unhinged is quite amusing.

You throw the same old rhetoric but when you get called out for blatantly making up BS you cannot produce anything relevant to back up your wild claims and then you get all huffy. Try honesty and sticking to facts for once. Oh yeah, your an alt left extremist, that is not in your makeup. I keep asking for the impossible.
You are once again proving how ignorant you are when you do not know the meaning of "IGNORE"!! Obviously you do not read all the posts and always come to false conclusions.
No substance in your posts, just dumb conclusions, slanders and extreme right wing views. Why do you not put me on ignore as I have done to you. When you start quoting or responding to my posts is when I then have to respond. Anyway you are a child and will never understand just plain English!!!!!
 

PornAddict

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mandrill

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The British military had typically been planning for the previous war (if not further back). Even at the turn of the last century, a fair number of their generals were trained in an era where nobility of birth was the desired characteristic and officers who studied and read about military were looked down upon. Yes Nelson and Wellesley were great military leaders but any reading of British military history shows them to be the exception. It really wasn't until partway through WWI that they started looking at the science part of war. And despite being a key part of British resilience in WWII, the Anzacs still hate the guy.

If you read actual military studies of WW 1, you'll read that the British were professional and competent. The British army essentially won WW 1. That didn't happen because they were fuck-ups.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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franky aka (Frankfooter) support the hezbolla and loves them!!
Don't be a dickhead.
Making false claims about others beliefs is a kindergarten level argument.

Hezbollah are bad but they do not belong in the same thread as Hitler.

If you're looking for present evil states for comparison they'd probably not make the top 10.
Saudi Arabia and North Korea, for example are much nastier.
 
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OnTheWayOut

You are once again proving how ignorant you are when you do not know the meaning of "IGNORE"!! Obviously you do not read all the posts and always come to false conclusions.
No substance in your posts, just dumb conclusions, slanders and extreme right wing views. Why do you not put me on ignore as I have done to you. When you start quoting or responding to my posts is when I then have to respond. Anyway you are a child and will never understand just plain English!!!!!
I could be wrong but I do not think Terb has a rule saying I must put you on ignore simply because you have me on ignore.

I do believe that there is a rule that says if you post in this public forum I am allowed to comment whether you like it or not. Suck it up buttercup.

You regurgitating what I say to you back at me has no effect because we all know it is more of your made up BS. If you don't want to hear from me stop the false accusations, name calling, and other generalizations that are blatantly untrue. I know you can't do it .... so if you truly want to ignore me, then do it. You could take away the satisfaction and amusement I get from watching you squirm. Personally I could care less what you do, there is nothing you can say that will bother me because you have zero credibility.

IGNORE away, just know that we never made some sort of deal to mutually ignore. And if you spout nonsense and I'm in the mood I will say whatever I want.
 

Darts

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basketcase

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Is your whine tasting of bile again?...
As usual you look to criticize Israel while 100% making excuses for Hamas who openly call for removing Jews from the region just like Hitler did.

I have no idea, and I expect you don't either, of what Hamas' goals are.
Other than by reading what they write and they say. It is disgusting that you are criticizing people making excuses for Hitler while making excuses for Hamas.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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As usual you look to criticize Israel while 100% making excuses for Hamas who openly call for removing Jews from the region just like Hitler did.
Again, yes nasty words are bad and they should be sent to the corner until they stop.

Again, you continue to act as if bad language is more offensive than the actual ethnic cleansing Israel is actively committing, including continuing to announce new settlements, destroying Palestinian houses and announcing plans to annex Palestine. For some (Islamaphobic) reason, you don't consider those nearly as offensive as the words or what you think are thoughts of Hamas, not to mention that Hamas is not Gaza and not Palestine.

Again, Israel regularly guns down 100x more civilians yet you claim that only Hamas is bad.

Your complaints are nonsense, Islamaphobic nonsense.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
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I could be wrong but I do not think Terb has a rule saying I must put you on ignore simply because you have me on ignore.

I do believe that there is a rule that says if you post in this public forum I am allowed to comment whether you like it or not. Suck it up buttercup.

You regurgitating what I say to you back at me has no effect because we all know it is more of your made up BS. If you don't want to hear from me stop the false accusations, name calling, and other generalizations that are blatantly untrue. I know you can't do it .... so if you truly want to ignore me, then do it. You could take away the satisfaction and amusement I get from watching you squirm. Personally I could care less what you do, there is nothing you can say that will bother me because you have zero credibility.

IGNORE away, just know that we never made some sort of deal to mutually ignore. And if you spout nonsense and I'm in the mood I will say whatever I want.
Once again displaying your ignorance of what is the ethical procedure on this Board. You have a minus credibility and are below cave levels in that respect. No substance but just abuses from you in the past.
Sickening reading your comments. That is why you were on "Ignore". Obviously you cannot be trusted by anyone, as when there is an agreement not to respond to posts, all you do is break that agreement.

You need help as you are either sick, or ignorant to what you agreed to!!
 

Nathan 88

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2017
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This is the tip for all the righties out there.
Never ever defend Hitler.
You are going to lose every time!
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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This is the tip for all the righties out there.
Never ever defend Hitler.
You are going to lose every time!
And spreading untruths and half truths, even about the greatest historical murderers, serves exactly whom and to what end?
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
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And spreading untruths and half truths, even about the greatest historical murderers, serves exactly whom and to what end?
Somewhere along the line, leftists decided that anyone who leans right is a Nazi. It's a desperate attempt at trying to make themselves look righteous and relevant. Yet they only come across as hypocritical and overall sucky.
 
Ashley Madison
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