+1...Depends, really. There are absolutely situations where an SP will agree to off-the-clock time before or after a session "officially" starts or ends. However, most of the time the clock starts when an SP enters the room and ends when she leaves. Your case just sounds like a misunderstanding to me. He thought you had agreed to off-the-clock time, and you didn't think that. I wouldn't consider either of you in the right or in the wrong. You both should be more clear on what you're offering / asking for in the future if you wish to avoid these situations.
Now, if I were him, and I hadn't clearly requested that the companionship time be off-the-clock, I would have simply chalked it up as a lesson learned and been more clear in the future. I think emailing you days later to bitch about what was, at the very least, partially his mistake, is classless. So in that way, he's in the wrong. And while I think you could be more clear in the future to avoid these situations, I still think you're completely in the right and shouldn't be compensating him at all.
(Also, many here will tell you what you want to hear the same way fellow SPs will, so I'm not sure how much you can trust us for a neutral opinion either. But good on you for trying!)
An open discussion about "Off the clock" time.....
- Thread starter Jasmine Raine
- Start date
I think you're both in the wrong. Though he's more in the wrong than you.
He's wrong for his reaction and sending you the nasty email. It shows a lack of class on his part. He should have just written the experience off and let it go. Instead he chose to be a juvenile and get all pissy about it. Not the kind of behavior you want to exude as a man.
You are in the wrong because you didn't manage the session. You're the one who is selling the service, so it's up to you to convey to your clients when the session begins and then manage your time accordingly. You need to manage the time and the expectations of your client.
Overall, I always marvel how a lot of people boil their time down to a per hour rate. Since I've been working in my profession, I've always been paid a salary, which means I get the same cheque whether I work 40 hours in a week, or 80 hours in a week. No such thing as over time, or time in lieu in my world. I have good clients, I have pain in the ass clients. If I meet with them, which I frequently do, and we sit around and shoot the shit about life, they are most definitely not getting billed for my time. Likewise, if I take them out for dinner, or some event, I'm not on the clock. (They would never forget that and the end result would not be good for me.) It's called the cost of doing business. On the other hand, a huge percentage of the population just figures that they get paid by the hour and though they never say it, in their brain, there is a clock and there is a quitting time and they are well aware of it and if they spend 5 minutes more on the job, they expect to be paid for that 5 minutes. (As I said, not my world, so I can't relate.)
I suspect that this has been a learning experience for both of you.
He's wrong for his reaction and sending you the nasty email. It shows a lack of class on his part. He should have just written the experience off and let it go. Instead he chose to be a juvenile and get all pissy about it. Not the kind of behavior you want to exude as a man.
You are in the wrong because you didn't manage the session. You're the one who is selling the service, so it's up to you to convey to your clients when the session begins and then manage your time accordingly. You need to manage the time and the expectations of your client.
Overall, I always marvel how a lot of people boil their time down to a per hour rate. Since I've been working in my profession, I've always been paid a salary, which means I get the same cheque whether I work 40 hours in a week, or 80 hours in a week. No such thing as over time, or time in lieu in my world. I have good clients, I have pain in the ass clients. If I meet with them, which I frequently do, and we sit around and shoot the shit about life, they are most definitely not getting billed for my time. Likewise, if I take them out for dinner, or some event, I'm not on the clock. (They would never forget that and the end result would not be good for me.) It's called the cost of doing business. On the other hand, a huge percentage of the population just figures that they get paid by the hour and though they never say it, in their brain, there is a clock and there is a quitting time and they are well aware of it and if they spend 5 minutes more on the job, they expect to be paid for that 5 minutes. (As I said, not my world, so I can't relate.)
I suspect that this has been a learning experience for both of you.
What planet are you living on??? One from Star Trek??
You go to Vegas, call an escort, ask them to come early to smoke a J, then imply that you meant that was there time and see what happens to you.
What guy in there right mind request an SP to come early in hopes she'll hang out free?? That's retarded dude.
Unless YOU as the provider initiate the “Extra” time then everything should be on the clock! You were right and he was wrong! IMHO
You were absolutely right Jessica. You owe him nothing. You gave him a grandfathered rate and stayed fifteen extra minutes. Its sad that he is making you feel like you did something wrong. If he wanted off the clock time he should have let you know but as far as I know the clock starts as soon as the client/ sp enters the room & the donation taken care of.
With that being said he is the one who asked you to "smoke and chill" therefore giving you the impression that he wanted to do it.
I don't think youre in the wrong because you also suggested to go to the bedroom at the halfway mark which to me shows you wanted to try and give him a good time . I feel that if he wanted you to stay longer he should have just asked and paid whatever other donation you would have required.
The fact that he said other escorts do this for him ; well I cant imagine it . Ive never met another sp who has offered free time. In fact sps have rates for these types of encounters which can sometimes be negotiated depending on how many times you have seen the sp .
He shouldn't have sent you a nasty email either ; that's not very gentlemanly of him. He should have called or texted you and explained in a calm manner how he was feeling & shouldn't have tried to guilt you by telling about his other experiences.
I understand why you would not see him again. It would definitely make things awkward between you. Regulars do have priority and are important but sometimes when they think you are "friends" they forget that this is a business and that you might not plan on doing this forever. Ive had to cut off some regulars too due to situations like these and it sucks but its apart of the business and life.
Maybe sometime in the future you can make amends but right now the wound for him is still healing and it might take some time for him to understand that like you said you are first and foremost an escort and that your time is paid for no matter what you are doing .
With that being said he is the one who asked you to "smoke and chill" therefore giving you the impression that he wanted to do it.
I don't think youre in the wrong because you also suggested to go to the bedroom at the halfway mark which to me shows you wanted to try and give him a good time . I feel that if he wanted you to stay longer he should have just asked and paid whatever other donation you would have required.
The fact that he said other escorts do this for him ; well I cant imagine it . Ive never met another sp who has offered free time. In fact sps have rates for these types of encounters which can sometimes be negotiated depending on how many times you have seen the sp .
He shouldn't have sent you a nasty email either ; that's not very gentlemanly of him. He should have called or texted you and explained in a calm manner how he was feeling & shouldn't have tried to guilt you by telling about his other experiences.
I understand why you would not see him again. It would definitely make things awkward between you. Regulars do have priority and are important but sometimes when they think you are "friends" they forget that this is a business and that you might not plan on doing this forever. Ive had to cut off some regulars too due to situations like these and it sucks but its apart of the business and life.
Maybe sometime in the future you can make amends but right now the wound for him is still healing and it might take some time for him to understand that like you said you are first and foremost an escort and that your time is paid for no matter what you are doing .
If he was a newbie, I would have clarified that the request for companionship stuff is included in the time, but he has already seen me 4 times previously. I really didn't think he needed to be told. To be honest, until he wrote me back days later, I didn't know he wanted that for free.
I did learn a lot but I am curious to how you think I could have managed the time better? If I was asked to chill, relax, smoke before the bedroom fun, how did I not manage that properly during his paid time. He wanted that to be completely Off the clock.
So I'm unprofessional because I didn't spend 30 minutes with him for free before the scheduled appointment time? Or I'm unprofessional because I did what was requested to do but during his paid time?
I get your opinion on giving up some time because it keeps the client happy. I stayed 15 minutes past time. So in total, I was supposed to stay for 1hr 45 mins and only get paid for the hour? Because why? Why was the 15 minutes in the end, not enough?
And to be clear, I think the discussion part of this is great. I hope I am not coming across as bitchy as that is not my intent at all.
There may be some deviation between what truly
happened between the OP and the guy and the scenario
in people's mind. The guy had to be utterly ignorant to have
requested an one-hour outcall appointment with the intent
to spend half the time smoking pots and demanded to be
charged a half-hour rate. A client who complained about
the SP charging him for time on activities like smoking, drinking
and eating in his residence during an overnight appointment
would be a jerk and downright classless.
This could be a case of someone who had already developed
a rapport with an escort in a comfortable incall setting who
wanted to try an outcall experience. He might have
thought the level of trust between them was sufficient
for him to do her a favour by sharing weeds with her in his
residence. The SP certainly trusted him enough to
waive her requirement of a minimum of a two hour
appointment which the guy might or might not have
noticed. Somehow she didn't really trust him enough to
smoke his weeds.
I am not suggesting the OP is in the wrong and
the guy's behaviour is acceptable. I just think it
could have been better handled.
With respect to my statement, "it's called being a professional" I was responding to BBL when he asked what planet I was on. That one wasn't aimed at you.
With respect to managing time and expectations on your part, you assumed you were on the clock, he assumed that it was being social and was something you may have enjoyed that did not involve why you were there.
Doesn't matter what field you're in, if you're selling your service, you need to manage your client's expectations and from your point of view, that includes your time spent. It's like if I go to a restaurant and they say up front, "we need the table back in 2 hours", I will respond, "fair enough, but it's up to you as the server to manage the meal so that we are done in 2 hours". You had a scope of work in mind and your client was dragging you into out of scope work. You need to manage your client's expectations that smoking dope and the time included to smoke dope was included in your scope of work. I face this every day in my line of work. I get how you can't exactly issue the guy a contract change initiation, but you have to know what you believe to be included and the time required.
Don't take it personally.
Just a word to the wise, people always think that you can work for free. Know your scope, don't let out of scope creep into the equation, manage your client's expectations.
Then my question is why should I have even expected that he expected OTC time?
He discussed two appointments with me prior to this date. One was an outcall to his house. The other an incall to my trailer when it opens. Both were discussed in the same manner. With talk about "chatting, relaxing, smoking," and for the trailer, enjoying a nice campfire. Those were all his words. There was no mention of me showing up early until the night of the date when he was done his other obligations for the day. So I assumed that meant he was able to see me earlier than the scheduled 9 pm.
Being that I am an escort so it is pretty much known that my time is paid for, my site has a social time rate, I have seen him 4 times before, where did I go wrong in thinking he was discussing what he wanted during his paid date? What sign should I have seen that would make me think he wanted all that companionship off the clock? I deal with "scope of work" all the time in my day job. I know all about project management. He discussed what type of session he wanted. I gave him that and then after the fact I was told he expected the companionship part for free.
I know going forward, I will confirm that type of talk with every client, but I really do fail to see how I mismanaged the time based on his requests at the time. It is like hiring a lawyer and only wanting to be billed for the time he is in front of the judge, not the time in the office prepping. That is how I see it anyway.
I will add that I will never have a 420 session with a client again. Like period.
I'm not saying it cant happen ; I'm just saying usually these details are arranged and agreed upon not expected .
Do you see doctors offering free time? or how about therapists , lawyers, etc? They don't do it and they are still professionals.
To me I think you handled youself very well. I would have wanted him to explain to me before I got there that he didn't want to include the chilling and relaxing in his "paid time" . That way you could have accommodated him accordingly .
Technically none of these professionals would offer
free time to clients. In real life not everyone always
adhered to a policy of charging exactly each and every
minute off the clock. I had MPAs who didn't mind
chatting with me after the session when business was
slow. I have taken family members to a clinic where the physiotherapists went over time once in a while to give some extra counselling. Even my family physician once called me up from home during late
hours because something unusual came up. It is
possible that the client of the OP was unwittingly
unaware of the need for a longer than one-hour
appointment to spend time smoking weeds with an outcall escort.
What was "unprofessional" about what she did? Show up on the agreed time??? lol
Does she have to spell it out for people??? Every time someone books her she supposed to say "just so you know, this is all paid time".
I have to agree, dude asks come at 1 to 3 to smoke, snort, drink, fuck n suck it's a two hour paid gig.
Dude says come at 1 for an hour to fuck n suck and Jess shows up at 1 and smokes, drinks, snorts, fuck n sucks and leaves at 3 then it's only one hour paid gig.
I had a regular that I would see and even though it was understood that we knew each and had been with each other before often, the session always started off as business. Business 1st pleasure 2nd.
I knew exactly when the clock started. When she messaged her driver. Once business was done, driver was messaged and envelope tucked away, phone was turned off and tucked away and session started.
When the session was done...thats when off the clock time occured. Messaged driver...sometimes she askes to hang out for 15-20 mins while waiting on her ride...sometimes it was only 5 mins. Thats off the clock time. Another drink....Another smoke..
I knew exactly when the clock started. When she messaged her driver. Once business was done, driver was messaged and envelope tucked away, phone was turned off and tucked away and session started.
When the session was done...thats when off the clock time occured. Messaged driver...sometimes she askes to hang out for 15-20 mins while waiting on her ride...sometimes it was only 5 mins. Thats off the clock time. Another drink....Another smoke..
Talking to a client for a couple minutes or even while getting ready to leave is normal. In this situation the guy was looking for more time to do the deed but he didn't want/ didn't offer to pay for it. He also used the remaining 25 mins/ half hour to get a bj from the sounds of Jessica's story. Which is not her fault at all. He could have done it for ten minutes & then done the deed for the remainder or he could have offered her more of a donation to stay a bit longer.
I think the devil is in details. Did he "asked" you to come earlier to chill out and smoke the weed or did he "offered" to you do so. My guess is that you think that he "asked" so that when you are doing it, it is a paid time. However he thinks that he "offered" it in case you enjoy it, so, if you say "yes" it is OTC time, if you say "no", you simply do not do it. You came on time, but you still spend lots of time "chilling out", so, he thought that you took him on his offer and it is the OTC time. You, on the other hand, thought that "chilling out" is really what the client wanted on paid time.
Now, to the fact that you've had already seen him 4 times. You say it means that he must know that every minute with the escort must be paid for. I think, it is just the opposite. If it was the first time, then it is, indeed, a "per minute" business arrangement. However, after 4 times he wanted to be nice and offered you to chill out, drink some vine, and smoke some weed IF YOU WANT TO. He though it was an offer to someone whom he knows and who may enjoy it. Yes, he also likes it, but not much enough to pay for it. At the same time, you thought that "chilling" out" is part of his fantasy for which he wanted to pay.
So, basically, this situation is a misunderstanding. Now, the question is: who is in fault that this misunderstanding happened? I believe, the most experienced party who knows more about how this business works and what is standard is at fault. And this more experienced party is the SP. So, yes, you are in the wrong here because you did not spelled out the rules and misunderstood the clients expectations.
Now, to the fact that you've had already seen him 4 times. You say it means that he must know that every minute with the escort must be paid for. I think, it is just the opposite. If it was the first time, then it is, indeed, a "per minute" business arrangement. However, after 4 times he wanted to be nice and offered you to chill out, drink some vine, and smoke some weed IF YOU WANT TO. He though it was an offer to someone whom he knows and who may enjoy it. Yes, he also likes it, but not much enough to pay for it. At the same time, you thought that "chilling" out" is part of his fantasy for which he wanted to pay.
So, basically, this situation is a misunderstanding. Now, the question is: who is in fault that this misunderstanding happened? I believe, the most experienced party who knows more about how this business works and what is standard is at fault. And this more experienced party is the SP. So, yes, you are in the wrong here because you did not spelled out the rules and misunderstood the clients expectations.
You shouldn't be taking a Poll where people can see where someone has voted leaving their name . Some people might not vote or vote in a certain way because of that .
See, I get that and have done that quite often. I have a standard 15 mins over time that I usually stay or allow clients to stay if they want to chat. Which is why I didn't leave until 15 minutes after the appointment time. I have even chill for longer depending on the situation. I have always thought that OTC time was after the appointment, not before. And always at the SPs request, not at the clients.
Pretty much sums it up. I would stay for 2 hrs with you and only charge you for 2 1/2. LOL JK.
See I honestly thought that at first. I was going to give him some of the money back because of it, but then I really started to look at the emails and texts and I simply can not believe that to be the case.
Here is why:
1. All of this communication before the date, and including his first request for this appointment, discussed "chilling, relaxing, smoking". It was a repeated thing with him. Including discussing "chilling, relaxing, have a couple of drinks and smoke over a campfire" at my trailer for an incall. Never once was it an "offer". He described wanting to do these things because he thought it would be nice to have a session this way. He wanted to specifically go to my trailer for a campfire because it was something he misses. That is not discussing an "offer" to hang out. He made it clear he wants companionship. That was before and even during the date when he was enjoying it. In fact, his first email to me stated he missed "my service and company". That was his first line. My "company" has always been on paid time with him in the past. This to me shows he knows that a) they are different types of services and b) they are both paid for. It was not until after the date that the companionship became an issue and the only issue was that it was paid.
2. The offer to arrive earlier only happened a couple of hours before the date start time, when he reached home and his plans for the day were done. It was never said in his emails to show up earlier to chill. Only when he got home and could actually host me earlier then the agreed upon time. Having said that, we did move the scheduled appointment time from 9:30pm to 9pm the day before the date. That was agreed upon as a new start time. I figure he expected me to show up at 8:30pm to chill for a bit based on his post date emails. Which begs the question, why move the time to 9pm if he expected 30 mins of chill time regardless? If that was his thinking before the date, I would have still been showing up at 9 pm anyway if I accepted this so-called "offer". I think he changed his mind about the paying for the companionship after the fact, and I think this proves it.
3. My rules are laid out clearly. That is what I have a website for. There are social date rates on my site. That makes it quite clear.
Now I get you will say, "he won't go to the site anymore if he is a repeat client", but that is not true. In fact, he had my website up on his computer when I arrived. I have a members section that he was having trouble getting into at first. He was successful before I arrived, but he still had the site up. I actually enjoyed looking at from a different computer.
If he had stated from the beginning to show up early, if he did not discuss the same type of chilling style date for a future date, if he was not a repeat client, and if I didn't get the sense from our back and forth communication after the date that he honestly expected me to give him OTC time, I may have continued to think that it was a miscommunication.
But he clearly "expected" it. He used that word specifically. Because he is a great client, and he could give me a real-world conversation for once unlike with my other clients, and of course the age old line of "all the other escorts do it" which generally only comes out when you want something you know you are not supposed to have and you feel the need to convince the other party. Oh and the word "friends" came up a lot in his emails after the appointment. That word was never used before the date. If it was, I would have seen that as a red flag.
And lastly, and it seems I am not alone in this type of thinking, clients are not to ask for OTC time. They are not to expect it. It is offered by the SP then fine, but you don't go seeking it. So if it is indeed true that he was just "offering" because he is a nice guy, it is a real manipulative way to get OTC time from an escort. Which just makes it another reason to fire him as a client.
I will add that it took me a couple of days to come to this conclusion for myself. I would not have made the poll now that I'm not questioning what happened, but a couple of days ago, I thought there was a possibility of a misunderstanding. Thanks to the wonderful people on all the boards, the ladies who have given me advice and the extra effort of reviewing all the communication, I have now concluded that he was wrong for expecting OTC time from me. And I still at this point don't even know why he would expect it to begin with, but he did. Maybe he was hoping and wanted to use this to get the free OTC time at my trailer like he obviously wanted as well. At this point, I don't really care about his reason for trying to play this game. However from my site now, I was requested for a date, I did the things request on that date as far as the "service and company" he missed and requested as well as I left 15 minutes after the date was concluded, so I'm clearly not a clock-watcher. I remained professional before, during and after the date. My conscious is clear.
I really do appreciate your opinion and POV on this topic, however, I will have to agree to disagree based on what I have said.
People don't have to vote. It is stated that it is public. I wanted to know. For those that said I was wrong, I wanted to option to possibly take the discussion to PM if the thread got derailed. I'm fine if people chose not to vote because of it.
Thanks
