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Thread: High net worth wealth management - worth it?

  1. #1

    High net worth wealth management - worth it?

    I think the threshold is 500K in finacial assets, has anyone transitioned from managing their own money to private wealth management and what was your experience. Is it just anotherr shakedown with higher fees or is there a real benefit? Which company did you go with?

    TIA

  2. #2
    They usually get 1% and then buy the same shit you were buying.

  3. #3
    Has anyone tried or know of Fisher Investments ?

    Over the past 5 years, I have tried 3 hedge funds and 1 managed account. None were desirable experiences. Past performance history is not an indication of future performance ...but my personal accounts outperformed all 4 of them. So much for diversification !

  4. #4
    Although I am in the financial business, I use a portfolio manager at a local brokerage firm for my investments. He tailored a portfolio to match my risk threshold with a mix of interest earnings, dividend paying and capital gains potential. He charges me 1.25% of the book's value on a monthly basis. I have received a return over the years of about 7.5% annually. Less his charge of 1.25%, I still receive 6.25% in overall earnings. He calls me bi-monthly to update me, as well as sending me monthly statements. He does not make any buys or sells without my ok. Although I started with a portfolio of $150,000, it's grown substantially over the years.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bluecolt View Post
    Although I am in the financial business, I use a portfolio manager at a local brokerage firm for my investments. He tailored a portfolio to match my risk threshold with a mix of interest earnings, dividend paying and capital gains potential. He charges me 1.25% of the book's value on a monthly basis. I have received a return over the years of about 7.5% annually. Less his charge of 1.25%, I still receive 6.25% in overall earnings. He calls me bi-monthly to update me, as well as sending me monthly statements. He does not make any buys or sells without my ok. Although I started with a portfolio of $150,000, it's grown substantially over the years.
    You could probably have done exactly the same thing yourself, with the same return, and saved yourself the 1.25% fee.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by yomero5 View Post
    You could probably have done exactly the same thing yourself, with the same return, and saved yourself the 1.25% fee.
    I could have, but one has to learn to delegate work to others since there are only 168 hours a week and to compensate others for the work they do. That is how to run a business. Trying to do everything yourself is self-defeating non-productive micromanaging. That is akin to stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. One can do more with his hours applying himself to his business and more productive work than to waste time looking up investments and scouring the exchanges.

  7. #7
    As a general rule yes work to make money to pay others for services but in this case he was questioning the value received for said 1.5%. It may turn out it is worth more than his hourly rate in his day job if he put in the effort himself. And some people have the time. Just put down the play station for an hour a day

    A 6.25% is nothing to write home about. If I was paying him I would think I got ripped off.

    Probably all he did was balance his portfilio based on risk. You have to be dumb to not know how to do that

  8. #8
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    Isn't the very very long term stock market return around 9%? If an advisor can't beat the index, why pay for an advisor? Why not just buy a low cost index etf?

    I wouldn't mind paying an advisor if they can guarantee beating the index. The majority of advisors for the general public has no financial downside. Whether the market goes up or down, the advisor makes money off of you. You as the client takes on all of the downside risk.

    Would any advisor agree to the following? I would sure love to find an advisor this confident. Right now the client eats all the costs and has all the downside risk.
    1) Lose money, the advisor eats the whole cost. So if starting balance is 10K. Advisor loses 1K. At end of year they deposit 1K to make the account whole at 10K.
    2) Make between 0-9%. advisor gets nothing as 9% is the average long term stock market return.
    3) Make >9%. Split 50/50 the gains (the more money involved, the more taxes need to be considered into the split)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bluecolt View Post
    I could have, but one has to learn to delegate work to others since there are only 168 hours a week and to compensate others for the work they do. That is how to run a business. Trying to do everything yourself is self-defeating non-productive micromanaging. That is akin to stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. One can do more with his hours applying himself to his business and more productive work than to waste time looking up investments and scouring the exchanges.
    If your adviser's performance was close to that of Peter Lynch's, I would consider staying with him. However, it's not much different from that of an index fund. He may even be shadowing an index fund.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by superstar_88 View Post
    As a general rule yes work to make money to pay others for services but in this case he was questioning the value received for said 1.5%. It may turn out it is worth more than his hourly rate in his day job if he put in the effort himself. And some people have the time. Just put down the play station for an hour a day

    A 6.25% is nothing to write home about. If I was paying him I would think I got ripped off.

    Probably all he did was balance his portfilio based on risk. You have to be dumb to not know how to do that
    Over the last twenty years, I have seen my portfolio triple in value, My statement discloses a 11.95% annual increase over the term that I have used this portfolio manager. Some years, I have seen 25%-30% increases. I lost only 5% in 2008. I could not do this myself. Most casual investors are late to the market and lag behind the market. It is difficult to watch the market while you are doing other productive work.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nottyboi View Post
    I think the threshold is 500K in finacial assets
    None has answered this important question? Is really the threshold that high to get really personalized wealth management service? I have my eyes on a firm here in Montreal. All the papers are filled. Should I dive in? If so when? 2 investors told me to stay safe until about end of summer before moving in with new firm... (by the way the firm I choosed is at 400k minimum investment).

    Cheers,

  12. #12
    I would do it myself, timing the market is key and most of these guys don't know what they are doing. Buy and hold does not give the best returns!


    Quote Originally Posted by nottyboi View Post
    I think the threshold is 500K in finacial assets, has anyone transitioned from managing their own money to private wealth management and what was your experience. Is it just anotherr shakedown with higher fees or is there a real benefit? Which company did you go with?

    TIA

    Aria Alexander

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carvher View Post
    They usually get 1% and then buy the same shit you were buying.
    This is the truth right here. If they knew something they wouldn't need your money.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bluecolt View Post
    Over the last twenty years, I have seen my portfolio triple in value, My statement discloses a 11.95% annual increase over the term that I have used this portfolio manager. Some years, I have seen 25%-30% increases. I lost only 5% in 2008. I could not do this myself. Most casual investors are late to the market and lag behind the market. It is difficult to watch the market while you are doing other productive work.
    Then you found a good manager who actually knows what he's doing.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by yomero5 View Post
    You could probably have done exactly the same thing yourself, with the same return, and saved yourself the 1.25% fee.
    I agree. These days it’s extremely manageable and there are a lot of resources out there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bluecolt View Post
    Over the last twenty years, I have seen my portfolio triple in value, My statement discloses a 11.95% annual increase over the term that I have used this portfolio manager. Some years, I have seen 25%-30% increases. I lost only 5% in 2008. I could not do this myself. Most casual investors are late to the market and lag behind the market. It is difficult to watch the market while you are doing other productive work.
    If you find the right person, then yes, that’s definitely worth it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mvdouche View Post
    This is the truth right here. If they knew something they wouldn't need your money.
    Not true if you ask me. But you are on to something. If they know what they are doing they do need your money. But they need a shitload of it. That is why I re-ask the question. What is the treshold?.... 500k or more to get a real top quality firm that will actually act and not only follow along...

    Cheers,

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jalimon View Post
    Not true if you ask me. But you are on to something. If they know what they are doing they do need your money. But they need a shitload of it. That is why I re-ask the question. What is the treshold?.... 500k or more to get a real top quality firm that will actually act and not only follow along...

    Cheers,
    These guys are the best from what I hear:

    https://guidedwealthmanagement.ca/who-we-are/our-team

    They have a roster of hand-selected, major players that are fully-committed to increasing your wealth and are well-versed in tax mitigation strategies.

  19. #19
    If you get above 500k u should try and get that 1.25% lowered to 1. And make sure you are not paying any other fees embedded in products that he might put you into. Definitely at 1 million tou should be 1 percent fee all in (or even less if you are relatively passive and are investing for capital protection instead of growth). I pay less than 1 percent for professional manager and zero for the money I manage myself I outperformed the pro last year simply because I was luckily mostly in cash when the December etc crashes were happening. Bought back in and made some dough. But it was mire luck than a thought out strategy !!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Caspertheghost View Post
    If you get above 500k u should try and get that 1.25% lowered to 1. And make sure you are not paying any other fees embedded in products that he might put you into. Definitely at 1 million tou should be 1 percent fee all in (or even less if you are relatively passive and are investing for capital protection instead of growth). I pay less than 1 percent for professional manager and zero for the money I manage myself I outperformed the pro last year simply because I was luckily mostly in cash when the December etc crashes were happening. Bought back in and made some dough. But it was mire luck than a thought out strategy !!!
    I pay for equity transactions only. There is no charge for cash or interest-bearing investments such as bonds or GICs. There are no mutual funds or the like involved.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOODG View Post
    These guys are the best from what I hear:

    https://guidedwealthmanagement.ca/who-we-are/our-team

    They have a roster of hand-selected, major players that are fully-committed to increasing your wealth and are well-versed in tax mitigation strategies.
    ^ if anybody goes with these guys would like to know if they live up to their hype. I manage my own money at the moment but I have heard really good things about them.

  22. #22
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    the last 10 years, was a decade for fund managers to hit wave after wave of some decent returns. Will this upward momentum continue, in which we haven't seen since the 1800s or will the waves crash and burn. Be cautious my friends, the elephant lingers in the room



    French kissing involves all 34 muscles in the face.
    A pucker kiss involves only 2.


  23. #23
    Are you saying get out?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by malata View Post
    the last 10 years, was a decade for fund managers to hit wave after wave of some decent returns. Will this upward momentum continue, in which we haven't seen since the 1800s or will the waves crash and burn. Be cautious my friends, the elephant lingers in the room

    ^

    That's why most people need a professional managing their money.

    They are supposed to mitigate against these things. This is also where the fraudsters with Ponzi schemes get exposed!!!

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