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California abandons plans for high speed railway

K Douglas

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Jan 5, 2005
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Room 112

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/12/18222279/governor-gavin-newsom-high-speed-rail-canceled-california

California, the Land of Misfit Toys. Original budget was $40B ballooned to $77B-$100B. And AOC wants to implement this nationwide as part of her Green Deal. Sheer liberal insanity.
The numbers may seem huge, but the total fleet of domestic airliners (737 type +RJs) in the USA is 4300. That represents an investment of 300-400B which is probably 1/10 the total lifetime operating cost or less. That does not include ANY of the infrastructure to operate them.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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If California can't build it the Chinese will. They'd like nothing better than to use that detail of their BRI to rope in the USA. The only question is how long Americans will hold out, depending on smoggy weather-dependant airplanes, cars and trucks to get around.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Stupid decision.

Less than the price of Trump's wall.

Less than a tenth the price of the US military's annual budget.

Having taken the high speed trains in Europe, I can assure you, they are the way to go. North Americans are ludites when it comes to high speed trains.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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If California can't build it the Chinese will.
China need high speed trains because many (maybe most) of their factory workers still have families in rural areas and who don't have cars. Huge masses of people going back home to celebrate Chinese New Year.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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China need high speed trains because many (maybe most) of their factory workers still have families in rural areas and who don't have cars. Huge masses of people going back home to celebrate Chinese New Year.
And Californians and other Americans have nowhere to go? Don't forget high-speed trains originated in post-war Europe where most of the new middle class had all the cars they wanted. And the Chinese already buy more American cars than the people of the USA.

After four days of weather-cancelled flights here, do you not see the usefulness of a fast land-travel option? Would you have happily set out to drive where you couldn't fly on those roads?
 

Zenyatta

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Feb 5, 2019
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And Californians and other Americans have nowhere to go? Don't forget high-speed trains originated in post-war Europe where most of the new middle class had all the cars they wanted. And the Chinese already buy more American cars than the people of the USA.

After four days of weather-cancelled flights here, do you not see the usefulness of a fast land-travel option? Would you have happily set out to drive where you couldn't fly on those roads?
It might be more effective in harsh weather, although our subway system seems to go down whenever we have a big storm as well. I don't think high speed trains will be unaffected by bad weather.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Indeed, only 'indoor' transportation is unaffected by bad weather. But railways have been clearing snow from their tracks since before the first car-owners were demanding roads that needed to be cleared. And last I saw the news shows were as much about impassable roads as closed airports. VIA didn't cancel anything because of this latest storm. But Air Canada sure as hell did. And it was the much more reliable subway that brought my friend back from Pearson after the fourth cancellation of her flight (not to mention the hours spent trying to reach an agent to re-book)

Anyway, that's all sidebar. North America is a regressive when it comes to any ground transport but private cars. Even India has got a HS rail route a-building.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Somehow I doubt we can ever build high speed trains in Canada. The indigenous people and their radical lefty supporters will never allow it. China and Europe have the advantage that they are the indigenous (except the 50 million Muslims in Europe).

The irony is that AOC is also a lefty and she advocates high speed trains.
 

Zenyatta

Banned
Feb 5, 2019
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Indeed, only 'indoor' transportation is unaffected by bad weather. But railways have been clearing snow from their tracks since before the first car-owners were demanding roads that needed to be cleared. And last I saw the news shows were as much about impassable roads as closed airports. VIA didn't cancel anything because of this latest storm. But Air Canada sure as hell did. And it was the much more reliable subway that brought my friend back from Pearson after the fourth cancellation of her flight (not to mention the hours spent trying to reach an agent to re-book)

Anyway, that's all sidebar. North America is a regressive when it comes to any ground transport but private cars. Even India has got a HS rail route a-building.
Your last statement is very true.
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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The numbers may seem huge, but the total fleet of domestic airliners (737 type +RJs) in the USA is 4300. That represents an investment of 300-400B which is probably 1/10 the total lifetime operating cost or less. That does not include ANY of the infrastructure to operate them.
Are you just going to confiscate 300-400B comrade? Because nobody will lend the US govt money if they embrace this GND nightmare

Any idea how steel & copper, plastic, glass and aluminum would be required to make your train set?
That's is going to be difficult to make with only solar & wind power
Have they invented a solar powered aluminum smelter yet?
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Are you just going to confiscate 300-400B comrade? Because nobody will lend the US govt money if they embrace this GND nightmare

Any idea how steel & copper, plastic, glass and aluminum would be required to make your train set?
That's is going to be difficult to make with only solar & wind power
Have they invented a solar powered aluminum smelter yet?
Since 1980 the US has spent $1.6 trillion on extreme weather damage costs.
https://www.climate.gov/news-featur...r-weather-and-climate-disasters-historic-year

2017's extreme weather damage was $300 billion alone.

Who's paying for that?
 

Polaris

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Oct 11, 2007
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hornyville
If California can't build it the Chinese will. They'd like nothing better than to use that detail of their BRI to rope in the USA. The only question is how long Americans will hold out, depending on smoggy weather-dependant airplanes, cars and trucks to get around.
Your message pique my curiosity about the rail projects in South East Asia, the parts connected to China. It is a big project.

My impression is that this high speed rail will get better because the speed of the train is increasing. It would be kind of nice if Canada had something, but who are we kidding. Toronto, no subways, eh.

see pic.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/img/photos/2018/January/21/b334b996dd8cf3540c86b89a7c924f13.jpeg

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/asean-plus/30336801
 

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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Of course the right thinks it must be one or the other. Either high-speed trains OR planes. High speed trains are a cost effective eco friendlier alternative to planes. Studies have shown that if trains were faster many people would prefer them to planes. Of course no one expect the right wing scare mongers is talking about confiscating panes.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Let's get real. No high speed trains (same with pipelines) will ever get built in Canada because everybody has a veto. The lefties, the indigenous people, the environmentalists, the courts, etc. all have veto power.

If high speed trains mean less sale of cars, can you imagine the outrage by the auto and related industry workers?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Let's get real. No high speed trains (same with pipelines) will ever get built in Canada because everybody has a veto. The lefties, the indigenous people, the environmentalists, the courts, etc. all have veto power.

If high speed trains mean less sale of cars, can you imagine the outrage by the auto and related industry workers?
Canada's still too small a market and too challenging geographically to make the capital project financially attractive. Once they're up and running, CN and CP prove we run railways as profitably as anyone. But we need the deep pockets of governments to get them built.

No one has a veto except taxpayers/voters, and their current fad is to imagine they can't afford their taxes while the outdated infrastructure their less-affluent parents and grandparents bought crumbles around them and needed projects, like renewable energy, like pollution remediation, like efficient, environmentally-safe high-speed rail go unbuilt.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts