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Amidst Global Warming Hysteria, NASA Expects Global Cooling

Frankfooter

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yes we have seen you chart many times
And I showed a different chart many times showing the atmosphere is not heating up anywhere near as fast
And I showed you serious issues with the surface data collection
Stop trying to bait and switch atmosphere temperatures with surface temperatures.
We are debating surface temperatures.
That's where humanity lives, not in the clouds.

If you at all understood the greenhouse gas hypothesis you would know that it does not hold together without detecting a hot layer in the atmosphere or a rate of change in atmospheric temperature as the surface
Incredibly stupid statement.
Really fucking stupid.

If you could properly quantify natural variability
Define 'natural variability'.
Variability in what?
This means nothing.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Keep on trying to dismiss that the vast majority of scientists who actually study climate see human CO2 as a significant player in climate change.
Again, a scientific hypothesis is not determined by a poll...
Ask a different scientist or go attend a grade 9 or 10 science class describing what a scientific hypothesis is & what is required to prove / disprove it
A survey will not be part of that lesson

I noticed you avoided commenting on Anthony Watts report
You did not review it, yet you trashed him
Bloody shameful
how can you do that and still consider yourself objective and unbiased?
and able to make an intelligent objective determination?
You are just as bad as frankfurter & that should concern you
 

Frankfooter

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Again, a scientific hypothesis is not determined by a poll...
Its validity is found by having tens of thousands of scientists study it over 4 decades of work in over 100 countries and no other single alternate hypothesis has come to challenge it.
That's what the consensus means.
It means that nobody, not the scientists hired by governments nor the scientists hired by Exxon, found any better hypothesis.

Certainly you have absolutely nothing.
Only this undefinable 'natural variability' which means absolutely nothing.
 

JohnLarue

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Stop trying to bait and switch atmosphere temperatures with surface temperatures.
We are debating surface temperatures.
That's where humanity lives, not in the clouds.
Unbeleivable. A scientific know nothing thinks he gets to ring fence science
go learn something about the Green House hypothesis before trying to tell me atmospheric temperature change is irrelevant to the hypothesis
You are so far out of your depth

Incredibly stupid statement.
Really fucking stupid.
I bet you would say the same thing about the schrodinger equation
Look !You think it is stupid because you do not understand it
You have proven your lack of scientific understanding once again

again does the roast in you oven heat up faster than the oven? No it does not

I dumbed it down for you & you still do not get it


Define 'natural variability'.
Variability in what?
This means nothing.
It might mean nothing to a moron
Its how much the climate varys ex man.
It is hard to measure since man is doing the measuring

you proved your scientific ignorance aging twice in one thread

you are a blithering idiot
 

JohnLarue

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Its validity is found by having tens of thousands of scientists study it over 4 decades of work in over 100 countries and no other single alternate hypothesis has come to challenge it.

if you spend $183 B looking for a crisis you will find one

There have been lots of credible alternatives including natural variability , but you refuse to even acknowledge their existence
Science does not ignore what it does not want to look at

That's what the consensus means.
And science is not determined by consensus
This is beyond question. ask a different scientist

It means that nobody, not the scientists hired by governments nor the scientists hired by Exxon, found any better hypothesis.
Sure there is , you just DENY they exist

BTW there is no such thing a BETTER hypothesis. A hypothesis either disproven by experimentation or it is not disproven
The wave -particle duality theory of light is a good example. Neither has been disproven, but one is not better than the other
I hope you are taking notes & learning something


Certainly you have absolutely nothing.
Only this undefinable 'natural variability' which means absolutely nothing.
It might mean nothing to closed minded obnoxious lying moron, but I am pretty sure the IPCC has referenced it many times
How much of the IPCCs work have you actually read ?

Blithering idiot
 

PornAddict

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Welcome to the new abnormal, Kirk.

How climate change can make catastrophic weather systems linger for longer

https://theconversation.com/how-cli...phic-weather-systems-linger-for-longer-111832

The full article is worth the read.
Its also worth remembering how recent this polar vortex business started coming up.
What a load of crap!!

Here article from 5 leading climate scientists who believe in global warming ,but don't believe global warming causes polar vortex business.

https://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/...Weather&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body


It’s written by five leading climate scientists, all of whom have long been reliable guides to a complicated and consequential body of science — John M. Wallace at the University of Washington, Isaac M. Held at the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory, David W. J. Thompson at Colorado State University, Kevin E. Trenberth at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and John E. Walsh at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

The letter is behind the journal’s subscription wall, so I’m providing excerpts here:

In mid-January, a lobe of the polar vortex sagged southward over the central and eastern United States. All-time low temperature records for the calendar date were set at O’Hare Airport in Chicago [–16°F (–27°C), 6 January], at Central Park in New York (4°F (–15.6°C), 7 January], and at many other stations. Since that event, several substantial snow storms have blanketed the East Coast. Some have been touting such stretches of extreme cold as evidence that global warming is a hoax, while others have been citing them as evidence that global warming is causing a “global weirding” of the weather. In our view it is neither.

As climate scientists, we share the prevailing view in our community that human-induced global warming is happening and that, without mitigating measures, the Earth will continue to warm over the next century with serious consequences. But we consider it unlikely that those consequences will include more frigid winters.

Distinguishing between different kinds of extreme weather events is important because the risks of different kinds of events are affected by climate change in different ways. For example, a rise in global mean temperature will almost certainly lead to an increase in the incidence of record high temperatures. Global warming also leads to increases in atmospheric water vapor, which increases the likelihood of heavier rainfall events that may cause flooding. Rising temperatures over land lead to increased evaporation, which renders crops more susceptible to drought. As the atmosphere and oceans warm, sea water expands and glaciers and ice sheets melt. In response, global sea level rises, increasing the threat of coastal inundation during storms.

There is a section on recent research pointing to a connection between expanded open water on the Arctic Ocean in summers and extreme winter weather in the temperate zone of the Northern Hemisphere. The authors write:

Sea-ice losses during late summer may indeed lead to regional changes in Arctic climate. But tremendous natural variability occurs in the large-scale atmospheric circulation during all seasons, and even in summer the links between Arctic warming and mid-latitude weather are not supported by other observational studies. The lag between decreases in sea ice extent during late summer and changes in the mid-latitude atmospheric circulation during other seasons (when the recent loss of sea ice is much smaller) needs to be reconciled with theory.

Summertime sea ice extent in the Arctic has been remarkably low since 2007 and the ensuing years have been marked by some notable cold air outbreaks. It was this coincidence that prompted Francis and Vavrus [paper] to link the cold air outbreaks to global warming. But coincidence does not in itself constitute a strong case for causality. Cold air outbreaks even more severe than occurred this winter affected the United States in the early 1960s, the late 1970s (most notably 1977), and in 1983, back when the Arctic sea ice was thicker and more extensive than it is today. Over the longer time span of 50 to 100 years, it is well established that there has been a decrease in the rate at which low temperature records are being set relative to all-time high temperature records at stations across the United States. For the present at least, we believe that statistics based on the longer record are more indicative of what the future is likely to bring.

The research linking summertime Arctic sea ice with wintertime climate over temperate latitudes deserves a fair hearing. But to make it the centerpiece of the public discourse on global warming is inappropriate and a distraction. Even in a warming climate, we could experience an extraordinary run of cold winters, but harsher winters in future decades are not among the most likely nor the most serious consequences of global warming.

I asked the authors if they had similar concerns about a recent burst of assertions related to threats from global warming to the future of the Winter Olympics. Here’s my query (I’ve cleaned up email shorthand here and in the replies):

Do you have similar thoughts on talk of “the end of snow” by winter Olympians and others (including in an opinion piece in last Sunday’s Sunday Review in The New York Times), who point to the spring snow trend but ignore the long-term trends in winter snow cover? [I included a link to Northern Hemisphere snow cover data compiled by the Rutgers University Global Snow Lab.]

Kevin Trenberth replied:

With respect to snow, one expects that the snow season gets shorter at both ends (more rain), but that snow amounts could be larger in mid winter. In continents in winter, the freeze drying of air is a big factor (“it’s too cold to snow” or to snow much) because the atmosphere can’t hold much moisture. So it is not a surprise to me to see more snow in winter, but the global warming signal should be in the snow pack in late spring.

John Walsh added this:

Kevin’s snow scenario is exactly what the global climate models show: a shorter snow season everywhere, but increases in maximum snow water equivalent in the northern continental areas (with decreases in maximum snow water equivalent in the more southerly regions, where rain-to-snow ratios increase). Some maps showing these projections are in the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program’s recent synthesis report, “Snow, Water, Ice and Permafrost in the Arctic.”

Addendum, Feb. 14, 12:23 p.m. | Jennifer Francis, a climate scientist at Rutgers whose work is cited above, sent the following note by email:

I received a copy of the letter a few days ago, and wrote this response to the co-authors:

I agree with most of the statements in this letter. The media certainly had a field day with the “attack of the polar vortex” in early January, and in their hyping of the story, some misquoted me (and others) by saying that climate change caused the unusual cold spell. Of course this sort of event has happened before, and this one wasn’t unprecedented.

I also agree that greenhouse-gas induced warming will reduce, not increase, the likelihood of breaking cold temperature records — the data already show this. Not only will this occur via general global warming but also because enhanced Arctic warming will make any future southward excursions of Arctic airmasses warmer on average, reducing the contrast between them and mid-latitude airmasses. So when a deep trough like the one this winter happens in the future, the southward surge of cold air won’t be as extreme.

The Screen and Simmonds (2013) paper cited in the letter actually shows some evidence of this effect, as they find a decrease in vertical wave amplitudes (Az in the paper) while the meridional (north-south) waves (Am) are increasing, albeit not statistically significantly.

Here’s where I don’t agree with statements in the letter: It states that our study (Francis and Vavrus, 2012) suggests that, “…the demise of Arctic sea ice during summer should lead to colder winter weather over the United States.” This is incorrect. Nowhere in our paper do we say this. What we *do* suggest is that the weakened poleward temperature gradient owing to the rapidly warming Arctic relative to mid-latitudes (Arctic amplification) should increase the north-south component of the upper-level flow, making highly wavy jet-stream patterns (like the one this winter) more likely. These patterns favor persistent weather patterns, not necessarily more record-breaking cold or warm temperature extremes. Again, the amazing persistence of this winter’s highly amplified pattern is an example of this behavior, but of course it can’t be blamed on any one factor. Even though the cold in the U.S. has not been unprecedented, the public perception is “extreme” because the cold in the central/eastern/southeastern U.S., drought in California, and the heat/heavy precipitation in Alaska has been so prolonged. This is exactly the type of “extreme” we refer to in our paper, not the record-breaking-temperature sort.

Further, the new Barnes et al paper is cited to support the statement: “…even in summer the links between Arctic warming and mid-latitude weather are not supported by other observational studies.” That study looks at trends in blocking-high patterns only, finding that various block-detection methods give different results. Blocking highs are only one part of the story — many extreme events caused by prolonged weather patterns are not associated with blocking highs, but rather very wavy jet patterns and/or cut-off lows (like blocking highs but in the opposite flow direction). Moreover, sea-ice loss is also only part of the story. Several recent studies, including this new one in Nature Geoscience [link] show that the sea-ice-albedo feedback is not the most important contributor to Arctic amplification. Most past modeling experiments that investigated the atmospheric response to Arctic change only considered the loss of sea ice, which of course misses much of the effect of Arctic amplification. The other challenge we readily acknowledge is that Arctic amplification has only emerged from the noise of natural variability within the last decade or so (strongest in fall and winter, weakest in summer), thus finding a statistically robust atmospheric response in the real world is not easy. Obviously many other factors (ENSO, PDO, PNA, stratospheric change, etc.) contribute to changes in jet stream patterns, as well.

Finally, the Arctic/mid-latitude linkage hypothesis proposed our paper is clearly in only in the early stages of research. Carefully designed modeling experiments and additional years of real-world data are needed to confirm it or not. To me, the ample discussion this idea has generated is not a “distraction,” but rather a trigger of a great deal of new research and healthy scientific discussion.

Addendum, Feb. 16, 8:40 a.m. | Charles H. Green, a climate scientist at Cornell, sent this note by email referring to relevant research on Arctic snow and ice patterns and weather led by Judah Cohen, a commercial climate analyst whose work has been explored here before:

I have very high regard for John Wallace, Isaac Held, David Thompson, Kevin Trenberth, and John Walsh. I also have a high regard for Jennifer Francis, who did a nice job correcting the other five on the misinterpretations of her work by them and others. There is one point that I would also like to add with regard to the following quote from Wallace and colleagues:

“The lag between decreases in sea ice extent during late summer and changes in the mid-latitude atmospheric circulation during other seasons (when the recent loss of sea ice is much smaller) needs to be reconciled with theory.”

Actually, the recent paper by Judah Cohen and colleagues (Cohen, J., J. Jones, J.C. Furtado, and E. Tziperman. 2013. Warm Arctic, cold continents: A common pattern related to Arctic sea ice melt, snow advance, and extreme winter weather. Oceanography26(4):150–160) provides key observations linking 1.) increased summertime sea ice melt to 2.) increased autumn Siberian snowfall to 3.) enhancement of negative Arctic Oscillation (AO) atmospheric circulation and 4.) associated mid-latitude extreme weather events during winter. The empirical relationships developed by Cohen and colleagues do a far superior job than current dynamical models in predicting recent wintertime weather. Therefore, I would recommend amending the above statement to the following:

The lag between decreases in sea ice extent during late summer and changes in the mid-latitude atmospheric circulation during other seasons (like autumn and winter, when the recent loss of sea ice is much smaller) have been demonstrated empirically, but have not been captured by existing dynamical models. It is time for theory to be reconciled with the observations.

Addendum, Feb. 17, 11:35 p.m. | This reaction to Francis’s comments was emailed by the five authors of the original Science letter:

Our letter that appeared in the February 14th issue of Science Magazine was motivated by our concerns about the widespread news reports, opinion pieces, and blog postings linking this winter’s cold weather over the central and eastern U.S. to global warming. These largely unsubstantiated claims are polarizing the public discourse on climate change and drawing attention away from climate impacts that are more directly related to global warming and ultimately much more damaging to our planetary life support system.


https://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/...Weather&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body
 

PornAddict

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https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/this-polar-vortex-should-have-been-colder/


Think this polar vortex was cold? It should have been colder.

Sure, it was icy. But over longer timescales, the science is clear: Cold snaps are getting warmer.
4 MINUTE READ
BY ANDREW REVKIN
PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 1, 2019

This story was produced in partnership with the National Geographic Society.
Now that the latest frigid, deadly Arctic blast is giving way to warmer conditions in the Midwest and Northeast, some clarity is emerging on how to think about cold waves in a warming climate.

An initial blizzard of headlines gave the impression that this week’s cold, driven by the weakening of the “polar vortex”—miles-high winds circling the North Pole—was a monumental event, and some accounts projected worse to come under global warming.

But many climate scientists focused deeply on the response of extreme winter weather in a human-heated climate see a different picture, explaining that data clearly show a long-term trend toward fewer, less widespread and less severe cold snaps of this sort. And the pattern is not limited to the United States.

Those background trends are a far more robust signal of human-driven planetary warming than any recent shifts in the behavior of the vortex.




There’s been a predictable pattern around this issue since the winter of 2013-2014, when “polar vortex,” actually a decades-old meteorological term, first became something of a meme as a brutal cold snap and winter storm named Hercules captivated the media.




Since then, there’s been a tendency of climate campaigners, commentators, and news-hungry media to zoom in on the handful of pioneering, but tentative, studies finding that such outbreaks of cold air are worsening as a result of climate changes being driving by the atmospheric buildup of human-generated greenhouse gases.

The cold wave that swept from the Midwest through the Northeast in recent days set many single-day records in some cities and barreled across the country with jaw-dropping intensity. But it wasn’t remotely close to some truly monstrous cold waves in earlier decades.


On Thursday, Bloomberg’s Climate Changed team helped cut through the noise by citing the “cold-wave index” developed over more than 20 years by Kenneth Kunkel, a researcher at North Carolina State University who for three decades has studied extreme weather in the long-term context of climate. The index sifts weather-station data from across the country to estimate the duration and intensity of regional extreme cold spells, going back to 1895.


In an interview Thursday with National Geographic, Kunkel, who also works for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, rattled off some of the worst North Americans cold waves—1936, 1970, 1977, 1983, 1989, but he ended with 1996. “Nothing since then has approached the magnitude of those,” he said. “Since that time they’ve been kind of wimpy, really.”

And nothing from the 20thcentury on compares to what was called the Great Arctic Outbreak of February 1899, Kunkel said.




According to the report, “The frequency of intense cold waves (four-day, one-in-five year events) peaked in the 1980s and then reached record-low levels in the 2000s.”


The geographic extent of winter cold spells has shrunk as well.

In 2016, the Environmental Protection Agency, as part of a broader set of climate change indicators, published a graph showing the declining percentage of the land area of the contiguous 48 states with unusually cold daily high and low temperatures during the months of December, January, and February.

Global data show similar patterns. Using the Climate Explorer tool of the Netherlands Meteorological Institute, Cliff Mass, a meteorologist at the University of Washington and popular weather blogger, posted a map this week showing that, worldwide, the annual coldest daily temperatures recorded over the last 50 years have actually risen much fasterthan the overall pace of global warming.

The cold-warm connection
Many stories in recent days highlighted studies concluding that global warming is boosting odds of cold outbreaks—mainly the work of Judah Cohen, a commercial weather analyst specializing in long-term winter forecasts, and Jennifer Francis, a senior scientist at the Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts.

Independently, they’ve focused on relationships between the shrinking amount of the Arctic Ocean covered in floating sea ice and instances where the polar vortex weakens, allowing cold air to spill south and warm air to flow north.

Like all new science on an issue in the public eye, such work tends to get outsize coverage.

But that can distract from the reality that all research on a new knowledge frontier is tentative. In this case, a host of other scientists looking at extreme weather in the context of climate change have been far more cautious.

In a CBS News web story on the cold and climate change this week, Michael E. Mann, a Pennsylvania State University climatologist who’s become a prominent campaigner for cutting greenhouse gas emissions, stressed the need for caution on this question.

“The apparent increase in frequency of these events is quite recent and so at best only just starting to emerge from the background noise,” he said, adding: “As we showed in our recent Science article, current generation climate models don't resolve some of the key processes involved in the jet stream dynamics behind many types of weather extremes.”


In an email exchange Friday, Francis said, “It's absolutely true that fewer cold records are being broken than high-temperature records, which is totally consistent with a warming globe. But this new possible connection between Arctic warming and disrupted stratospheric polar vortex adds nuance to this story, albeit a complicated one that will take a while to verify—or not.”

She said that, initially, her “hypothesis got way more attention than it deserved for such a new concept.”

But she proposed that the intense public and media focus on winter cold snaps has raised the profile of such questions.

“People are experiencing and hearing about a lot more extreme weather, which everyone loves to read and talk about,” Francis said. “While we have their attention during these extreme events, if we can inject a bit of science (particularly climate science) about how some extreme events are being goosed by climate change, it's a very good teaching moment. Perhaps it's even helping to move the needle a bit in the new polls showing that there has been a sizable uptick in those who consider climate change to be important, worrisome, and largely human's doing.”


PS The polar vortex business in the past it was lot colder in 1895, and there were no SUV ( automobiles) in 1895. Lots of horses and buggy!
 

Frankfooter

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Unbeleivable. A scientific know nothing thinks he gets to ring fence science
go learn something about the Green House hypothesis before trying to tell me atmospheric temperature change is irrelevant to the hypothesis
You are so far out of your depth
Its called the Greenhouse Effect, first discovered in 1824.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
Without it we're all dead.

That is not a hypothesis.

Anthropomorphic Climate change is accepted as being the cause of the present day global rise in temperature we are experiencing.
There is no other legit explanation, not 'natural variation' whatever that might be, or anything by Anthony Watts or Christy.
Nothing.

Tens of thousands of scientists have studied this and nobody has a legit alternate explanation to our present warming.
Definitely not you.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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There have been lots of credible alternatives including natural variability , but you refuse to even acknowledge their existence
'Natural variability' is not a thing.

Its not an alternate explanation and you can't tell me what you think it is or give one reason why it would happen.
Is it related to decadal oscillations to the AMOC?
Is changes to the jet stream?
Is it volcanic?
Is it aliens?

No, all you can say is 'natural variability' as if it meant something.
So stupid.
 
Last edited:

PornAddict

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Its called the Greenhouse Effect, first discovered in 1824.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
Without it we're all dead.

That is not a hypothesis.

Anthropomorphic Climate change is accepted as being the cause of the present day global rise in temperature we are experiencing.
There is no other legit explanation, not 'natural variation' whatever that might be, or anything by Anthony Watts or Christy.
Nothing.

Tens of thousands of scientists have studied this and nobody has a legit alternate explanation to our present warming.
Definitely not you.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0958305X16686488?journalCode=eaea

The coming cooling: Usefully accurate climate forecasting for policy makers
Norman J Page First Published February 10, 2017 Research Article

Article information

Abstract
This paper argues that the methods used by the establishment climate science community are not fit for purpose and that a new forecasting paradigm should be adopted.
Earth’s climate is the result of resonances and beats between various quasi-cyclic processes of varying wavelengths. It is not possible to forecast the future, unless we have a good understanding of where the earth is in time in relation to the current phases of those different interacting natural quasi periodicities.

Evidence is presented specifying the timing and amplitude of the natural 60 ± year and, more importantly, 1000 year periodicities (observed emergent behaviors) that are so obvious in the temperature record. Data related to the solar climate driver are discussed and the solar cycle 22 low in the neutron count (high solar activity) in 1991 is identified as a solar activity millennial peak and correlated with the millennial peak – inversion point – in the RSS temperature trend in about 2004. The cyclic trends are projected forward and predict a probable general temperature decline in the coming decades and centuries.

Estimates of the timing and amplitude of the coming cooling are made. If the real climate outcomes follow a trend which approaches the near term forecasts of this working hypothesis, the divergence between the IPCC forecasts and those projected by this paper will be so large by 2021 as to make the current, supposedly actionable, level of confidence in the IPCC forecasts untenable.



To continue reading: Here the full article

http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-coming-cooling-usefully-accurate_17.html
 

Frankfooter

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https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0958305X16686488?journalCode=eaea

The coming cooling: Usefully accurate climate forecasting for policy makers
Norman J Page First Published February 10, 2017 Research Article
That one's funny, porny, good find.

Earth’s climate is the result of resonances and beats between various quasi-cyclic processes of varying wavelengths. It is not possible to forecast the future, unless we have a good understanding of where the earth is in time in relation to the current phases of those different interacting natural quasi periodicities.
'quasi-cyclic processes of varying wavelengths'

Super kooky.

Meanwhile, Morocco produced 35% of its electricity from renewables in 2018.
https://www.juancole.com/2019/02/produced-electricity-renewables.html
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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Room 112
Its called the Greenhouse Effect, first discovered in 1824.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
Without it we're all dead.

That is not a hypothesis.

Anthropomorphic Climate change is accepted as being the cause of the present day global rise in temperature we are experiencing.
There is no other legit explanation, not 'natural variation' whatever that might be, or anything by Anthony Watts or Christy.
Nothing.

Tens of thousands of scientists have studied this and nobody has a legit alternate explanation to our present warming.
Definitely not you.
So is that how we're doing science today? Make a hypothesis, don't test it (other than running some computer simulations), and state that is fact because they are no better alternative explanations for the present day warming. What a perversion of the scientific method. FAIL.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,240
6,518
113
Room 112
Meanwhile, Morocco produced 35% of its electricity from renewables in 2018.
https://www.juancole.com/2019/02/produced-electricity-renewables.html
So in 11 years they went from 10% renewable electricity to 35%. At a cost of $10B. They still import 95% of their energy. Yet they are sitting on untapped oil and natural gas reserves that could have been converted to more energy quicker and at a significant cost savings. Green energy policy is killing nations like Morocco from properly developing their economies. 40% of their workforce is still employed in agriculture. Unemployment, while improved, is still in double digits. GDP growth has been between 1.5%-4.5% per year the past 5 years. With oil and gas production it could have been significantly higher.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,915
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So is that how we're doing science today? Make a hypothesis, don't test it (other than running some computer simulations), and state that is fact because they are no better alternative explanations for the present day warming. What a perversion of the scientific method. FAIL.
The Greenhouse Effect has been know for almost 200 years now.
Nobody doubts it.

But sure, why don't you man up and prove it doesn't exist.
I'd suggest we wait until summer and than you sit in a black car for 8 hours with the windows closed to prove it.

As for anthropogenic climate change, that's the hypothesis and there is no serious alternate theory or explanation for the present day warming.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,240
6,518
113
Room 112
The Greenhouse Effect has been know for almost 200 years now.
Nobody doubts it.

But sure, why don't you man up and prove it doesn't exist.
I'd suggest we wait until summer and than you sit in a black car for 8 hours with the windows closed to prove it.

As for anthropogenic climate change, that's the hypothesis and there is no serious alternate theory or explanation for the present day warming.
Of course the Greenhouse Effect is known nobody is doubting that. What is in doubt is the role CO2 plays in the warming of the planet. It is far from the settled science that the climate bed wetters assert it is.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Of course the Greenhouse Effect is known nobody is doubting that. What is in doubt is the role CO2 plays in the warming of the planet. It is far from the settled science that the climate bed wetters assert it is.
There is no credible alternate theory that explains the present rise in global temperatures.
None.

If you want to claim its in doubt you need to tell us what theory better explains it.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,240
6,518
113
Room 112
There is no credible alternate theory that explains the present rise in global temperatures.
None.

If you want to claim its in doubt you need to tell us what theory better explains it.
And that doesn't make the theory of CO2 driving warming any more correct. Sheer insanity.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Its called the Greenhouse Effect, first discovered in 1824.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
Without it we're all dead.

Odd how you claimed the greenhouse hypothesis is proof of global warming and is going to kill us all
Which is is it?
Without it we are all dead or it is going to kill us all?

Don't deny you said this Or I will just get the post # and quote you & you have wasted enough of my time.
I distinctly recall quoting your hypothesis about greenhouse gases are the cause of dangerous climate change
That is not a hypothesis.
Given you are confused as to whether the greenhouse is going to roast you alive via global warming or it is essential for your life, you seem to have two hypothesis for the same phenomena.

Get back to us once you
a) learn something
b) figure out which of your two greenhouse hypothesis you are going to stick with


Anthropomorphic Climate change is accepted as being the cause of the present day global rise in temperature we are experiencing.
There is no other legit explanation, not 'natural variation' whatever that might be, or anything by Anthony Watts or Christy.
Nothing.
So says you, a blithering idiot
You have not made any science based arguments , you clearly do not understand science and specifically not the science related to this issue
However the most compelling evidence you provided that you are a lying fool was your character assassination attacks on all skeptical scientists while refusing to discuss the science they published.
Slither away

Tens of thousands of scientists have studied this and nobody has a legit alternate explanation to our present warming.
30,000 scientist signed a petition saying differently

A moot point as Science is not determined by polls
Now slither away
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
80,915
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Odd how you claimed the greenhouse hypothesis is proof of global warming and is going to kill us all
Which is is it?
Without it we are all dead or it is going to kill us all?

Don't deny you said this Or I will just get the post # and quote you & you have wasted enough of my time.
I distinctly recall quoting your hypothesis about greenhouse gases are the cause of dangerous climate change
Without the Greenhouse effect the earth would be 0ºC, instead of 15ºC, and we'd all likely be dead.
Adding more CO2 to the atmosphere is increasing strength of the greenhouse effect and therefore the global temp, already we're 0.8ºC warmer (15.8ºC) and we're on track for another 3-5ºC or so (off the top of my head).





30,000 scientist signed a petition saying differently

A moot point as Science is not determined by polls
Now slither away
Your petition, the Oregon Petition, includes the names of the Spice Girls and characters from M.A.S.H.
Its not legit.


To summarize, I've got on my side:
97% + of climatologists
97% + of scientists (represented through organizations like AAAS)
The insurance industry
scientists hired by Exxon to study the climate

You've got:
Dr Roy Spencer and Christy - but only if you ignore their more recent work
Anthony Watts - tv meteorologist with no degree in anything
The Oregon Petition - which as wiki notes is:
The Global Warming Petition Project, also known as the Oregon Petition, is a petition urging the United States government to reject the global warming Kyoto Protocol of 1997 and similar policies. It is commonly considered to be a political petition designed for disinforming and confusing the public about the scientific results and the consensus of climate change research.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition

Sounds like you should be doing the slithering, jonny boy.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,872
6,345
113
Again, a scientific hypothesis is not determined by a poll.....
No one ever said it was.

Most people would think that thousands of independent scientists reaching similar conclusions meant the conclusion was th ebest one possible at the time. You on the other hand try to use it as an excuse to deny their conclusions simply because you don't like what they found.
 
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