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May's Brexit plan overwhelmingly rejected

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
Hard exit coming.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,776
113
USA was instrumental in creating the EU. Now USA want it disbanded. Go figure.
 

rafterman

A sadder and a wiser man
Feb 15, 2004
3,422
77
48
How about a second referendum, but this time it absolutely, positively is the final choice? :popcorn:
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,776
113
How about a second referendum, but this time it absolutely, positively is the final choice? :popcorn:
Even better, continue referending untill a yes emerges.
 

azeri99

Banned
Sep 19, 2018
949
1
0
If they had a 2nd one it should have been done long ago, now they are desperate because they don't know how to get out of the EU and time is running out, bunch of morons
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
When I predicted that Brexit will be a disaster, those from the right insisted that The UK got their country back. I guess they were following a certain individual from down South who congratulated The UK for making the "right choice". We now know how false that prediction of his was. Theresa may has her panties in a twist!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
When I predicted that Brexit will be a disaster, those from the right insisted that The UK got their country back. I guess they were following a certain individual from down South who congratulated The UK for making the "right choice". We now know how false that prediction of his was. Theresa may has her panties in a twist!!
They do have their nation back. The contention with much if the opposition is the exit doesn't go far enough. And some playing politics.

This is going to happen.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
They do have their nation back. The contention with much if the opposition is the exit doesn't go far enough. And some playing politics.

This is going to happen.
It was going be a bad deal, but it has turned out to be a disaster. The value of the British Pound says it all, as does the deal with the EU. That is what matters. The UK had their own currency whereas the rest of the EU nations went with the Euro, that is more stable than the Pound. I do not know what having their own nation rhetoric is all about, as it is ridiculous!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
It was going be a bad deal, but it has turned out to be a disaster. The value of the British Pound says it all, as does the deal with the EU. That is what matters. The UK had their own currency whereas the rest of the EU nations went with the Euro, that is more stable than the Pound. I do not know what having their own nation rhetoric is all about, as it is ridiculous!!
No it isn't ridiculous. The EU takes away border sovereignty. It is an undemocratic body born of a trucking deal that grew into this bureaucratic monstrosity.

It's too large, unweildy and needs to be brought up short.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
23
38
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
Will the Italians be next?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
No it isn't ridiculous. The EU takes away border sovereignty. It is an undemocratic body born of a trucking deal that grew into this bureaucratic monstrosity.

It's too large, unweildy and needs to be brought up short.
So you are saying that the British were clueless when they voted in their unique referendum to join the European Common Market in the seventies!! They negotiated to keep their currency as well. But it also benefited the UK economy as they were in the deepest recession as compared to the rest of the ECM. The ECM helped to ease them out of it although it was over two decades.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
So you are saying that the British were clueless when they voted in their unique referendum to join the European Common Market in the seventies!! They negotiated to keep their currency as well. But it also benefited the UK economy as they were in the deepest recession as compared to the rest of the ECM. The ECM helped to ease them out of it although it was over two decades.
No, I'm saying that in the last 50 years the EU has gone from being a benign trade agreement to a too large bureaucracy that weilds too much unchecked power.

Unelected Bureaucrats should not have power over borders, taxation, immigration, and foreign policy.

And the recent musing of the formation of an army, coupled with the demands, not requests but demands made over the migrant crisis were the final straw.

The mistake wasn't in joining. The mistake was allowing it to rule.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
No, I'm saying that in the last 50 years the EU has gone from being a benign trade agreement to a too large bureaucracy that weilds too much unchecked power.

Unelected Bureaucrats should not have power over borders, taxation, immigration, and foreign policy.

And the recent musing of the formation of an army, coupled with the demands, not requests but demands made over the migrant crisis were the final straw.

The mistake wasn't in joining. The mistake was allowing it to rule.
There was a free movement of citizens of each of the EU countries in terms of jobs and other opportunities. No wonder the Millennials supported staying in the EU at 70%, during the referendum and it has gone up to 80% now. You have to look at the broader picture, and not just the "Populist" blown up theories about these migrants. The UK was not affected on the same scale as was Germany or France with these migrants. What will now happen to the Brits who are living in the EU is in limbo, as are the citizens of the EU who are now residing in the UK.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
There was a free movement of citizens of each of the EU countries in terms of jobs and other opportunities. No wonder the Millennials supported staying in the EU at 70%, during the referendum and it has gone up to 80% now. You have to look at the broader picture, and not just the "Populist" blown up theories about these migrants. The UK was not affected on the same scale as was Germany or France with these migrants. What will now happen to the Brits who are living in the EU is in limbo, as are the citizens of the EU who are now residing in the UK.
The issue is decided. Going on about the past is useless.

Sovereignty and freedom have a price sometimes.

The EU overstepped imo. And would have continued to expand their powers without elected oversight. It is a tool of business without a democratic base. A trade deal run amok for cash.

Anyway it's over now. And they will adjust. And when they do watch as other nations think twice.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
The issue is decided. Going on about the past is useless.

Sovereignty and freedom have a price sometimes.

The EU overstepped imo. And would have continued to expand their powers without elected oversight. It is a tool of business without a democratic base. A trade deal run amok for cash.

Anyway it's over now. And they will adjust. And when they do watch as other nations think twice.
The EU Parliament consists of members who are elected. So it is not just a tool of business without a democratic base. They are the ones who decide what rules and regulations would help the to protect the EU as a whole.

Yes, The UK will have no choice any more as their hands are tied. This will without doubt impact the economy in a negative manner. Obviously, a move that has not been analyzed, but is plainly blind rashness, based on sentiments about the fond memories of the UK prior to joining the EU. That is why the Baby Boomers voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU, but the Millennials did not buy those ridiculous sentiments expressed by their parents!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,707
3,403
113
The EU Parliament consists of members who are elected. So it is not just a tool of business without a democratic base. They are the ones who decide what rules and regulations would help the to protect the EU as a whole.

Yes, The UK will have no choice any more as their hands are tied. This will without doubt impact the economy in a negative manner. Obviously, a move that has not been analyzed, but is plainly blind rashness, based on sentiments about the fond memories of the UK prior to joining the EU. That is why the Baby Boomers voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU, but the Millennials did not buy those ridiculous sentiments expressed by their parents!!
The EU parliament is a rubber stamp. Did you know the legislature ant bring forth leguslation? It is only allowed to to vote on leguslation brought forth by the unelected bureaucrats.


Look it up.

The people if the EU do not vote for the President. He is appointed.

Look it up.

So the voters have no say or control over what legislation is introduced. Or it's leadership.

Does that sound democratic to you?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,331
5,556
113
The EU parliament is a rubber stamp. Did you know the legislature ant bring forth leguslation? It is only allowed to to vote on leguslation brought forth by the unelected bureaucrats.
Look it up.
The people if the EU do not vote for the President. He is appointed.
Look it up.
So the voters have no say or control over what legislation is introduced. Or it's leadership.
Does that sound democratic to you?
Maybe you are talking about the European Commission, that has their President appointed by the European Council, but has to be approved by The Parliament. Both the bodies have legislative powers but only the Commission has the legislative initiatives. Very similar in operation to most of the EU nations with their own individual Government bodies. The Parliament is the "first institution" of the EU (mentioned first in the treaties, having ceremonial precedence over all authority at European level), and shares equal legislative and budgetary powers with the Council (except in a few areas where the special legislative procedures apply). It likewise has equal control over the EU budget. Finally, the European Commission, the executive body of the EU (it exercises executive powers but no legislative ones), is accountable to Parliament. In particular, Parliament elects the President of the Commission, and approves (or rejects) the appointment of the Commission as a whole. It can subsequently force the Commission as a body to resign by adopting a motion of censure.

In the beginning the Parliament had no legislative powers, but that later evolved thanks to the UK's own Professor David Farrell. The Parliament also has the power to censure the Commission if they have a two-thirds majority which will force the resignation of the entire Commission from office. The Parliament has the power to set up a Committee of Inquiry, for example over mad cow disease or CIA detention flights—the former led to the creation of the European veterinary agency. The Parliament can call other institutions to answer questions and if necessary to take them to court if they break EU law or treaties. Furthermore, it has powers over the appointment of the members of the Court of Auditors and the president and executive board of the European Central Bank. The ECB president is also obliged to present an annual report to the parliament.

So I do not see your point of view that it is not a democracy. At one point it seemed like it, but that has been rectified when they even had court cases to do so.
 

kstanb

Well-known member
Apr 25, 2008
1,283
90
48
Interesting read:

https://www.businessinsider.com/britain-enters-greek-fallacy-phase-of-brexit-2018-11

"The EU isn't a democracy. It's a system of laws and rules that are designed to not be changed (...) Brussels doesn't care about elections inside individual countries (...) that's not because they are inherently evil. It's because of the way the EU is structured.

The EU is a very difficult body to negotiate with, the Union consists of 28 countries (Britain plus 27 others) who all have their own democratic mandates. To pass any new laws or enter into any trade deals is very difficult, with a "super-qualified majority" of the EU council required to agree any changes to the Withdrawal Agreement.

The EU, therefore, exists mostly as a system of rules, policies, and laws that are incredibly difficult to change or break. There is no way to negotiate with a body that cannot change its mind if just one of its 28 members won't go along. "
 
Ashley Madison
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