Sen. Rand Paul scheduled to have hernia surgery at Thornhill, Ont. hospital

canada-man · Jan 14, 2019

LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- U.S. Sen. Rand Paul plans to undergo hernia surgery at a private hospital in Canada because of injuries he suffered when a neighbour tackled him while he was doing yard work at his Kentucky home.

The Republican lawmaker is scheduled to cross the border for outpatient surgery scheduled sometime during the week of Jan. 21 at a hospital in Thornhill, Ont., his attorneys said in a recent filing in Paul's lawsuit against Rene Boucher, who attacked Paul while the senator was doing yard work.

The surgery is related to the 2017 attack, the court document says. Boucher pleaded guilty to assaulting a member of Congress and was sentenced to 30 days in prison. Federal prosecutors are appealing the sentence, saying 21-months would have been appropriate.

Paul is scheduled for surgery at Shouldice Hospital, which touts itself as a world leader in "non-mesh hernia repair."

"This is a private, world-renowned hospital separate from any system and people come from around the world to pay cash for their services," Paul spokeswoman Kelsey Cooper said in an email Monday.

In choosing Shouldice, Paul will receive care in a country that offers its citizens a publicly funded, universal health care system that runs counter to Paul's approach to American health care policy. Paul, who ran for president in 2016, touts private-market approaches for U.S. health care problems.

Paul's chief strategist, Doug Stafford, pointed to Shouldice Hospital's private status in pushing back against media reports about the senator going to Canada for treatment. "It's literally the opposite of socialized medicine," he tweeted.

The hernia procedure is estimated to cost $5,000 to $8,000, the court document said.

Paul suffered multiple broken ribs in the incident. Boucher has said the attack was triggered by Paul stacking debris near their property line in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and that he "lost his temper."

Paul sued Boucher last year seeking damages for physical pain and mental suffering from the attack. A jury trial is scheduled to begin late this month in Bowling Green.

"After presenting our evidence to the court and jury, we will ask the jury to carefully consider all evidence and to make a fair allowance based upon the entirety of the facts and circumstances related to this attack and plaintiff's injuries," Paul's attorneys said in the filing.

Paul's lawyers also said that a biomechanics expert is prepared to testify that Paul's injuries were similar to those from a 40 km/h car crash.

Boucher's attorney, Matt Baker, said Monday that "we're in the process of getting ready for trial."

Baker said that Boucher has made a $30,000 offer of judgment to Paul.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/sen-rand...a-surgery-at-thornhill-ont-hospital-1.4253416

oldjones · Jan 15, 2019

Noted and already attracting comments in the Politics Forum — this report actually emphasizes the political aspects —but worth spreading to a wider audience.

Judgeetox0357 · Jan 15, 2019

Shouldice is semi-private for Canadians though. You can get OHIP to cover their procedure. You will have to pay out of pocket for the accommodations if you don’t have extended insurance. In 2013 I was there and paid $900 for the room. The procedure was covered.

danmand · Jan 15, 2019

I hope they make him pay plenty, US dollars at par.

Uncharted · Jan 15, 2019

The Shouldice clinic simply proves the Senators point about private healthcare.

This clinic is one of the best in the world because it is private. Yes Canadians can have OHIP pay for the service because hernia operations are a covered OHIP procedure, but this is most definately a Private Clinic.

It never would have become so good, and world renowned, if it was a full part of our public healthcare system.

essguy_ · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
The Shouldice clinic simply proves the Senators point about private healthcare.

This clinic is one of the best in the world because it is private. Yes Canadians can have OHIP pay for the service because hernia operations are a covered OHIP procedure, but this is most definately a Private Clinic.

It never would have become so good, and world renowned, if it was a full part of our public healthcare system.

Shouldice didn't "become good", it always was and pre-dated OHIP. It was founded in 1945 and has always been exclusively for hernia operations - which were developed by its founder. So it's reputation is not because it was private - but because of the procedures and techniques developed by Dr. Shouldice and refined over the years. If being private were the only reason it was good, then Rand Paul would have a choice of many US private clinics. But he chose Shouldice - which is actually a hybrid.

It was grandfathered and continues to run the way it always has. And it's funded by the public so it is not fully private either.

oldjones · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
The Shouldice clinic simply proves the Senators point about private healthcare.

This clinic is one of the best in the world because it is private. Yes Canadians can have OHIP pay for the service because hernia operations are a covered OHIP procedure, but this is most definately a Private Clinic.

It never would have become so good, and world renowned, if it was a full part of our public healthcare system.

If you want to convince anyone that "this clinic is one of the best in the world because it is private" you'll have to offer at least some evidence.

Actually, OHIP pays every penny of the cost of the procedure, as with any other hospital or clinic, and that makes the clinic that does them a full part of our public healthcare system. It's the only comfy accommodations in the big house on the sprawling grounds for post-op physio that we are billed for privately and individually.

As the many scary commercials by lawyers looking for hernia-mesh class-action patients attest, the Shouldice Procedure is now far from unique, and used widely, in private and public systems both. And most post-op physio is still a private cost in Ontario, no matter who developed the procedure.

All credit to the pioneering Dr. Shouldice, but back in his day there was no such thing as a public healthcare system to sponsor his surgical effort, and unlike drug-based medical research like Banting's at U of T, institutions can't supply surgeons with a stock of materials. Since his whole innovation was local anaesthesia, conscious patients, and early walking, it was a natural for his sole proprietorship surgical practice. Unlike the heart-lung machine or radiation treatments for cancer as examples of other contemporaneous developments that only succeeded thanks to extensive public funding.

Uncharted · Jan 15, 2019

oldjones said:
If you want to convince anyone that "this clinic is one of the best in the world because it is private" you'll have to offer at least some evidence.

Actually, OHIP pays every penny of the cost of the procedure, as with any other hospital or clinic, and that makes the clinic that does them a full part of our public healthcare system. It's the only comfy accommodations in the big house on the sprawling grounds for post-op physio that we are billed for privately and individually.

As the many scary commercials by lawyers looking for hernia-mesh class-action patients attest, the Shouldice Procedure is now far from unique, and used widely, in private and public systems both. And most post-op physio is still a private cost in Ontario, no matter who developed the procedure.

All credit to the pioneering Dr. Shouldice, but back in his day there was no such thing as a public healthcare system to sponsor his surgical effort, and unlike drug-based medical research like Banting's at U of T, institutions can't supply surgeons with a stock of materials. Since his whole innovation was local anaesthesia, conscious patients, and early walking, it was a natural for his sole proprietorship surgical practice. Unlike the heart-lung machine or radiation treatments for cancer as examples of other contemporaneous developments that only succeeded thanks to extensive public funding.

And if it wasn't grandfathered and folded into the public system it would have gone to shit. Just like almost every other hospital in this province that existed before OHIP and now has beds in the hallways, 12 hour waiting times. People dying before they're seen. Money flushed down the toilet. Life saving treatment procedures, that are common around the world, not even available here, or even informed of, even if you did want to pay for them.

I've known too many people that have died from our public health care system that would have lived if they were in the States.

essguy_ · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
And if it wasn't grandfathered and folded into the public system it would have gone to shit. Just like almost every other hospital in this province that existed before OHIP and now has beds in the hallways, 12 hour waiting times. People dying before they're seen. Money flushed down the toilet. Life saving treatment procedures, that are common around the world, not even available here, or even informed of, even if you did want to pay for them.

I've known too many people that have died from our public health care system that would have lived if they were in the States.

I call bullshit on this. Canada is a very good place to be critically ill, not so good if you need elective procedures. Oh, and why didn't all the people you know who died because of our public healthcare system go to the States and get the procedure done privately? Was cost a factor? Or did you just make it up? As I said - I call bullshit.

oldjones · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
And if it wasn't grandfathered and folded into the public system it would have gone to shit. Just like almost every other hospital in this province that existed before OHIP and now has beds in the hallways, 12 hour waiting times. People dying before they're seen. Money flushed down the toilet. Life saving treatment procedures, that are common around the world, not even available here, or even informed of, even if you did want to pay for them.

I've known too many people that have died from our public health care system that would have lived if they were in the States.

So you're thankful the public system folded it in and kept it functioning at its high level? Noting that whther it is or is not public or private , everyone agrees you write a cheque for what you get there. Unlike at Toroto Western or Mt Sinai say.

There's a lot of room to improve our system, but we're not willing to pay the taxes that will take. That's why we turfed out the government who detailed their plan for better drug and dental care, at least partially paid for by big polluters, and elected one that has no plans and made no promises. Except to cut taxes, and make us pay for more healthcare ourselves.

Uncharted · Jan 15, 2019

oldjones said:
So you're thankful the public system folded it in and kept it functioning at its high level? Noting that whther it is or is not public or private , everyone agrees you write a cheque for what you get there. Unlike at Toroto Western or Mt Sinai say.

There's a lot of room to improve our system, but we're not willing to pay the taxes that will take. That's why we turfed out the government who detailed their plan for better drug and dental care, at least partially paid for by big polluters, and elected one that has no plans and made no promises. Except to cut taxes, and make us pay for more healthcare ourselves.

Wasn't the government we turfed out the one that helped destroy the healthcare system in the fist place, with millions upon millions of wasted tax dollars for things like the E Health fiasco and the Ornge debacle. There are actual deaths attributed to that Government's mishandling of Ornge.

Yeah, they were a much better choice for fixing the problems they themselves created.

Uncharted · Jan 15, 2019

essguy_ said:
I call bullshit on this. Canada is a very good place to be critically ill, not so good if you need elective procedures. Oh, and why didn't all the people you know who died because of our public healthcare system go to the States and get the procedure done privately? Was cost a factor? Or did you just make it up? As I said - I call bullshit.

Because Doctors here aren't even aware of such procedures to recommend to people. Even when they are asked what other procedures exist in other countries, money being no object.

A wonderful little procedure for Pancreatic Cancer called Irreversible Electroporation exists in Germany, the U.S., and many other countries using a marvelous little surgical device that is made right next door in Michigan. Has a very good success rate when used early enough.

Most Doctors here, including those at Mount Sinai Cancer Center, aren't even aware that it exists, even when specifically asked about treatment options in other countries. When the person I knew, who was early diagnosed, finally found out about this treatment on their own and went to Germany, they were told it was too late to do the procedure.
That person is dead now.

You don't know a God damn thing about me, to be accusing me of fabricating a friend dying. So, with all due respect. Fuck Off.

oldjones · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
Wasn't the government we turfed out the one that helped destroy the healthcare system in the fist place, with millions upon millions of wasted tax dollars for things like the E Health fiasco and the Ornge debacle. There are actual deaths attributed to that Government's mishandling of Ornge.

Yeah, they were a much better choice for fixing the problems they themselves created.

We shall see what healthcare improvements for all the current government can fund out of the inadequate revenue they began by shrinking even further. Noting that the Ornge helicopters are still needed, like we still need an integrated system to handle all those healthcare records. Not to mention, we need universal dental care (even for children), and insurance for drugs, as well as getting the beds out of hallways the previous poster mentioned.

No word from your better choice about how or what they plan to fix. But you might just consider that it's about paying, not parties.

essguy_ · Jan 15, 2019

Uncharted said:
Because Doctors here aren't even aware of such procedures to recommend to people. Even when they are asked what other procedures exist in other countries, money being no object.

A wonderful little procedure for Pancreatic Cancer called Irreversible Electroporation exists in Germany, the U.S., and many other countries using a marvelous little surgical device that is made right next door in Michigan. Has a very good success rate when used early enough.

Most Doctors here, including those at Mount Sinai Cancer Center, aren't even aware that it exists, even when specifically asked about treatment options in other countries. When the person I knew, who was early diagnosed, finally found out about this treatment on their own and went to Germany, they were told it was too late to do the procedure.
That person is dead now.

You don't know a God damn thing about me, to be accusing me of fabricating a friend dying. So, with all due respect. Fuck Off.

Well, I'm sorry about your friend but in your initial post you talked about knowing too many people. BTW, this procedure is on clinical trial at the University Health Network for pancreatic cancer and has been used for liver tumours for some time now (years). It's also called the "nano-knife" and even in the US it has been used mainly for liver tumours and not widely used for pancreatic cancer because it is only for cases where regular procedures are not feasible and where the cancer has not spread. I too have had friends with cancer as well as family members - in fact, because of this I have donated and raised literally thousands for the Princess Margaret. So excuse me, if I have a low tolerance for misinformation and exaggeration about the quality of care here for critically ill patients.

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Sen. Rand Paul scheduled to have hernia surgery at Thornhill, Ont. hospital

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