Toronto red light cameras

[rhuarc29]

For those that actually read / understood the Traffic Act you are not even supposed to enter on a Yellow
Doing so is an insta-fail on your driving test and if a cop is being a dick can even result in a ticket

lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.

[oldjones]

lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.

The law does not say you can enter the intersection if stopping is less safe. It says you must stop on an Amber. Only if you can not stop safely, are you permitted to drive through without penalty.

If you're two metres from the stop line when the Amber comes on, at 50kph the Amber gives just about the time it'll take you to cross an ordinary intersection before the Red. Funny how that works.

Of course wherever there's a countdown timer, there's no such thing as an Amber taking a driver by surprise. So no one thoughtlessly gets that close to the intersection, travelling at the speed limit.

They give it some extra juice, to zoom thru.

[GameBoy27]

Of course wherever there's a countdown timer, there's no such thing as an Amber taking a driver by surprise.

True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.

[TeeJay]

lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.

Accelerating to run a yellow (as quoted above) is illegal
Not only have they now exceeded the speed limit simply so they would not need to stop but there are other tickets taht can be issued as well

As you yourself posted, if a light turns yellow BEFORE you enter an intersection you are required to slow down and stop if safe to do so
Obviously slamming the brakes on 2 metres before intersection would also net you a ticket
But accelerating a block and a half is just as illegal

This ties into the original post that was arguing with the other poster; there is an incredible amount of ignorance for safe driving in the city
There is no excuse for running a red since more than enough warning is given. Period.

Actually; more people are killed every year due to traffic than due to guns
Licensing process is a joke and really we need lower demerit point limits and more suspensions for piss poor drivers

Last I heard they wanted to reduce speed limits in TO anyways because so many people suck so bad at driving
Not many streets is 50K even legal

[richaceg]

Also , if you do not stop while making a right turn on a red it considered going through a red light !

Many drivers have been nailed doing this.

It's a no brainer. If you're turning right, you consider the stop light a stop sign...you have no right of way until your light turns green.

[GameBoy27]

Also , if you do not stop while making a right turn on a red it considered going through a red light !

Many drivers have been nailed doing this.

Correct. But if you really have the urge to run a red light, stop first and you won't get a ticket.

[basketcase]

True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.

At some intersections, the lower traffic direction needs to be triggered by either a car or a pedestrian pressing the button.

[oldjones]

True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.

Yeah, I've encountered those. I can't find any explanation for them, nor can I imagine any rationale. But as a pedestrian-by-preference, I start from a negative bias whenever I consider Toronto's anti-pedestrian version of those timers.

[oldjones]

At some intersections, the lower traffic direction needs to be triggered by either a car or a pedestrian pressing the button.

In which case converting the old signal to a countdown was a waste of money. In fact, adding a Walk/Don't Walk to the standard traffic signal at such an intersection was a waste of money.

That sort of non-standard countdown serves no good purpose, only bad. It confuses and misinforms drivers, while it arbitrarily and needlessly deprives any pedestrians of a crossing opportunity, because it is illegal to step into the crosswalk while it is counting.

[GameBoy27]

In which case converting the old signal to a countdown was a waste of money. In fact, adding a Walk/Don't Walk to the standard traffic signal at such an intersection was a waste of money.

That sort of non-standard countdown serves no good purpose, only bad. It confuses and misinforms drivers, while it arbitrarily and needlessly deprives any pedestrians of a crossing opportunity, because it is illegal to step into thew crosswalk while it is counting.

100% ^^^ It makes absolutely no sense.

On another note, I used to have a sport bike that was largely composed of aluminum and plastic. At some intersections, I'd often have to get off my bike and push the walk signal in order to get the light to change. Otherwise I could be waiting for hours. lol

[oldjones]

100% ^^^ It makes absolutely no sense.

On another note, I used to have a sport bike that was largely composed of aluminum and plastic. At some intersections, I'd often have to get off my bike and push the walk signal in order to get the light to change. Otherwise I could be waiting for hours. lol

Some intersections have special sensors in the asphalt for bikes. They're marked with sizeable white dots. I was told sticking a rare-earth magnet low on your bike frame helps the car sensors detect you, but the button push is easy.

[GameBoy27]

Some intersections have special sensors in the asphalt for bikes. They're marked with sizeable white dots. I was told sticking a rare-earth magnet low on your bike frame helps the car sensors detect you, but the button push is easy.

Never heard of the special sensors for bikes, but I no longer have mine so I'm not up on those things. I sold my bike in the mid 90s. By sticking a rare earth magnet to the frame, you mean with duct tape or double sided adhesive, right?

[John Henry]

I spoke with a certain person at city hall complaining about some traffic intersections . I timed a few intersections ( big and small ) and found out that you have the same amount of time to go through a big or small intersections . To me that is bull . The person at city hall said that you will only get a ticket from a red light camera if you enter the intersection if the light is red . You will not get a ticket if the light turns red while in the intersection . Don't know how true that is but so far no tickets for me when it does happen .

Yes , I also have seen lights count down to 1 and the amber light doesn't come on right away . Weird . I like those count down lights because I can judge whether or not to slow down depending on those lights except for the weird ones that don't change right away .

Sometimes if it's not a busy intersection you kind a have to enter the intersection a bit to activate the lights . Other wise you could be sitting there for a long time .

[oldjones]

Never heard of the special sensors for bikes, but I no longer have mine so I'm not up on those things. I sold my bike in the mid 90s. By sticking a rare earth magnet to the frame, you mean with duct tape or double sided adhesive, right?

Uh-huh.

For some reason City Hall decided not to similarly mark intersections with car sensors that activate the traffic signals, but you can usually spot the rectangular outline where they buried the wires and patched with glossier asphalt.

Like you on your bike, I've occasionally driven cars too small, too light, too plastic or too aluminized to readily trip the sensor and had to wiggle a bit to get it to notice my ride and me.

[GameBoy27]

I spoke with a certain person at city hall complaining about some traffic intersections. I timed a few intersections (big and small) and found out that you have the same amount of time to go through a big or small intersections. To me that is bull. The person at city hall said that you will only get a ticket from a red light camera if you enter the intersection if the light is red. You will not get a ticket if the light turns red while in the intersection. Don't know how true that is but so far no tickets for me when it does happen.

They are correct. You will only get a ticket if you enter the intersection once the light has turned red. It has nothing to do with how long it takes you to get through the intersection.

Sometimes if it's not a busy intersection you kind a have to enter the intersection a bit to activate the lights. Other wise you could be sitting there for a long time.

No, the inductive loop that senses presence of a vehicle is located before the stop line, not beyond in the intersection. If you look closely you can see the where they've installed the rectangular inductive loop in the road.

The one they install in left hand turn lanes to trigger the advanced arrow, is typically set back 2-3 car lengths. If there isn't a car sitting over the loop the advanced arrow won't activate. That's why if I'm the only vehicle in the left hand turn lane, I'll stop back from the intersection over the loop until just before the light changes to activate it. Yes, I'm one of those guys.

P.S. I also fixed your punctuation. It was really bothering me. Was it on purpose or just the device/computer you were using?

[GameBoy27]

Uh-huh.

For some reason City Hall decided not to similarly mark intersections with car sensors that activate the traffic signals, but you can usually spot the rectangular outline where they buried the wires and patched with glossier asphalt.

Like you on your bike, I've occasionally driven cars too small, too light, too plastic or too aluminized to readily trip the sensor and had to wiggle a bit to get it to notice my ride and me.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with those. They fill them with tar which is why they're glossy...

[John Henry]

They are correct. You will only get a ticket if you enter the intersection once the light has turned red. It has nothing to do with how long it takes you to get through the intersection .

P.S. I also fixed your punctuation. It was really bothering me. Was it on purpose or just the device/computer you were using?

In other words if you're a few feet in front of the intersection when the light turns amber one has no worries about getting a ticket if you drive through . A ticket is given only if you enter the intersection if the light is RED . That means anyone that gets a ticket deserves to get one because they had plenty of time to stop .

Never have gotten a RED light ticket because I don't enter the intersection if the light is RED . One of the worst places for RED light runners is New York State . I see it all the time . If your up front at an intersection and you have a green light to go , you'd better make sure that it's clear before you enter . So many RED light runners it's unbelievable .

Thanks for fixing my punctuation even though I don't know where I screwed up .

[basketcase]

...
Yes , I also have seen lights count down to 1 and the amber light doesn't come on right away . Weird . I like those count down lights because I can judge whether or not to slow down depending on those lights except for the weird ones that don't change right away ...

I believe it has something to do with the light sensing streetcars and giving them time to get through.

[Indiana]

Put them at all corners.

[Phil C. McNasty]

I guess you missed this from the article you posted. "According to the city, red-light cameras are effective at reducing serious collisions. Data collected between 2008 and 2014 show injuries at intersections where the devices were installed decreased by 23 per cent, and fatal collisions fell by 40 per cent."

I believe they installed these for safety reasons. It appears they have been successful in reducing collisions, injuries and deaths. Which is a good thing

That may be part of it, but the revenue they collect is also a huge part of it.
Why else would they cut the amber light by .3 seconds??
If they were so concerned about accidents wouldnt they lengthen the amber light by half a second??
Or lengthen the opposing green light by .5 seconds

According to the article they issued 90,000 tickets last year: https://outline.com/DcfxYK
90,000 times $330 = almost 30 million dollars. Thats a lot of cake!

[TeeJay]

I spoke with a certain person at city hall complaining about some traffic intersections . I timed a few intersections ( big and small ) and found out that you have the same amount of time to go through a big or small intersections . To me that is bull . The person at city hall said that you will only get a ticket from a red light camera if you enter the intersection if the light is red . You will not get a ticket if the light turns red while in the intersection . Don't know how true that is but so far no tickets for me when it does happen .

Yes , I also have seen lights count down to 1 and the amber light doesn't come on right away . Weird . I like those count down lights because I can judge whether or not to slow down depending on those lights except for the weird ones that don't change right away .

Sometimes if it's not a busy intersection you kind a have to enter the intersection a bit to activate the lights . Other wise you could be sitting there for a long time .

The red light ticket contains a picture of your car outside intersection (while light is red) then a second picture of your car inside intersection while light is red
So its obvious when you run light and person at city hall was correct you wont get a ticket for running a yellow (unless a police officer judges your entrance to be unsafe)

The sensors do not require you to enter intersection at all
(to the contrary stopping in an incorrect position can result in sensor not seeing your car at all)

[basketcase]

That may be part of it, but the revenue they collect is also a huge part of it.
Why else would they cut the amber light by .3 seconds?? ...

If you actually read the articles on it, that section of Richmond had it's speed limit reduced and therefore the safe stopping time was reduced. As far as the articles on it said, it was not a blanket change to the whole city.

And I'd much rather have law breakers pay the bills rather than see property taxes go up.

[GameBoy27]

If you actually read the articles on it, that section of Richmond had it's speed limit reduced and therefore the safe stopping time was reduced. As far as the articles on it said, it was not a blanket change to the whole city.

And I'd much rather have law breakers pay the bills rather than see property taxes go up.

I agree. Don't want a ticket, stop for red lights. This isn't the same as getting a ticket for travelling a few km/h over the limit, on a clear stretch of highway, on a clear sunny day. You're running a red light, very dangerous!