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Toronto red light cameras

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
46,710
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Toronto
I hate it when I'm making a left turn and oncoming cars blow through the red. I wouldn't care if they put them at hundreds more intersections. Good drivers stop for red lights, assholes run them.
If I see them coming, I try to start slightly making my turn in front of them (with no intention of actually getting in their way) to make them think that they are about to get in an accident. If they do happen to slow down then I make my turn and they get stuck in the middle of an intersection. They always get mad but I just point up at the traffic lights.

Or how about stopping for the red light.
I agree. People are looking for ways to break the law and endanger others.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Or, how about stopping for the red light. There's no reason to run a red, between observing the countdown timer and that other thing called an amber. It's the easiest ticket to avoid. If you get one, you deserve it
You think I regularly run red lights?? I dont.

But in case you didnt read the news, the City has cut the amber light by about .3 seconds.
So when you think you can catch that amber light, you probably wont.

Its a money making scam of course, very little here is done for safety
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
Of course way back when, Toronto invited the bad driving you mentioned when it — alone in the world — invented the brief Four-Way Red, which survives to-day, to keep taxes low by avoiding redesign cost to make intersections efficient for left turns.

The 4-Way Red is augmented now by countdown timers that inform drivers of the time remaining until the amber, and further aid the ass-holes too far away to make it through the green, and too stupid or too self-absorbed to stop on the amber as the law requires.
What are you talking about?
Japan has always had 4 way reds (I can even quote you a 30 year old anime as source lol)
So do USA, South Africa, Liberia, Ireland, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, new Zealand, Taiwan and I am sure many more countries

How do you get "Toronto *invented* the brief Four Way Red"???
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
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west gta
Only if safe to do so. Regardless, no one should be entering an intersection on a red. If you do, you're either going too fast, not paying attention, or misjudged.
You think I regularly run red lights?? I dont.

But in case you didnt read the news, the City has cut the amber light by about .3 seconds.
So when you think you can catch that amber light, you probably wont.

Its a money making scam of course, very little here is done for safety
For those that actually read / understood the Traffic Act you are not even supposed to enter on a Yellow
Doing so is an insta-fail on your driving test and if a cop is being a dick can even result in a ticket

See Phil's comment above; people speed up to run Yellow all the time (safe to enter intersection my ass)
That's why the majority of them can not safely stop once light turns Red
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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What are you talking about?
Japan has always had 4 way reds (I can even quote you a 30 year old anime as source lol)
So do USA, South Africa, Liberia, Ireland, Germany, Israel, Netherlands, new Zealand, Taiwan and I am sure many more countries

How do you get "Toronto *invented* the brief Four Way Red"???
I'd be grateful for any real world evidence you have for the above. Thanks for the anime offer, but no thanks.

My own evidence is strictly personal, I haven't encountered any detectable four-way reds driving or walking elsewhere in Canada, the USA, much of Britain, western Europe, and bits of Africa and Asia. Nor found any references by Googling. Not even for the situation we know exists here in Toronto.

Might be nice if the official Ontario Driver's Manual talked about them, if they''re as common as you say.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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Only if safe to do so. Regardless, no one should be entering an intersection on a red. If you do, you're either going too fast, not paying attention, or misjudged.
Always, unless unsafe to do so. The semantics may be the same either way. The driver-behaviour is not.
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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west gta
I'd be grateful for any real world evidence you have for the above. Thanks for the anime offer, but no thanks.

My own evidence is strictly personal, I haven't encountered any detectable four-way reds driving or walking elsewhere in Canada, the USA, much of Britain, western Europe, and bits of Africa and Asia. Nor found any references by Googling. Not even for the situation we know exists here in Toronto.
California is a great state for 4 way reds

You won't see them in UK because after a brief trial they made a 4 way red illegal (?) for some reason
Most of western Europe prefers roundabouts as you must be aware
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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You think I regularly run red lights?? I dont.

But in case you didnt read the news, the City has cut the amber light by about .3 seconds.
So when you think you can catch that amber light, you probably wont.

Its a money making scam of course, very little here is done for safety
I never said you regularly run red lights. But if you do, you deserve getting fined for it.

I did read the article. They reduced the length of the amber to coincide with the reduced speed limit on Richmond. 3.0 seconds is still plenty of time to stop, unless you're traveling above the speed limit. At 50 km/h, 3 seconds equates to 132 ft. which is approximately 9 car lengths to stop. In other words, plenty of time.

Now considering that intersection has countdown timers and large signs that say "Red Light Camera", anyone who gets a ticket is either not paying attention or doesn't care. There's nothing sneaky about what they're doing.

Its a money making scam of course, very little here is done for safety
I guess you missed this from the article you posted. "According to the city, red-light cameras are effective at reducing serious collisions. Data collected between 2008 and 2014 show injuries at intersections where the devices were installed decreased by 23 per cent, and fatal collisions fell by 40 per cent."

I believe they installed these for safety reasons. It appears they have been successful in reducing collisions, injuries and deaths. Which is a good thing.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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For those that actually read / understood the Traffic Act you are not even supposed to enter on a Yellow
Doing so is an insta-fail on your driving test and if a cop is being a dick can even result in a ticket
lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.
The law does not say you can enter the intersection if stopping is less safe. It says you must stop on an Amber. Only if you can not stop safely, are you permitted to drive through without penalty.

If you're two metres from the stop line when the Amber comes on, at 50kph the Amber gives just about the time it'll take you to cross an ordinary intersection before the Red. Funny how that works.

Of course wherever there's a countdown timer, there's no such thing as an Amber taking a driver by surprise. So no one thoughtlessly gets that close to the intersection, travelling at the speed limit.

They give it some extra juice, to zoom thru.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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Of course wherever there's a countdown timer, there's no such thing as an Amber taking a driver by surprise.
True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
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lol What are you talking about? So if you're cruising at the speed limit (say 50km/h) and you're two meters from entering an intersection when it goes amber, you're expected to stop? GTFO with that nonsense.

From section 44 of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act: a driver is required to stop at a yellow light if they are able to make the stop safely. The law was written that way because common sense dictates it's reasonable to enter on amber much of the time and less safe to try to stop.
Accelerating to run a yellow (as quoted above) is illegal
Not only have they now exceeded the speed limit simply so they would not need to stop but there are other tickets taht can be issued as well

As you yourself posted, if a light turns yellow BEFORE you enter an intersection you are required to slow down and stop if safe to do so
Obviously slamming the brakes on 2 metres before intersection would also net you a ticket
But accelerating a block and a half is just as illegal

This ties into the original post that was arguing with the other poster; there is an incredible amount of ignorance for safe driving in the city
There is no excuse for running a red since more than enough warning is given. Period.

Actually; more people are killed every year due to traffic than due to guns
Licensing process is a joke and really we need lower demerit point limits and more suspensions for piss poor drivers

Last I heard they wanted to reduce speed limits in TO anyways because so many people suck so bad at driving
Not many streets is 50K even legal
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
11,567
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Also , if you do not stop while making a right turn on a red it considered going through a red light !

Many drivers have been nailed doing this.
It's a no brainer. If you're turning right, you consider the stop light a stop sign...you have no right of way until your light turns green.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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Also , if you do not stop while making a right turn on a red it considered going through a red light !

Many drivers have been nailed doing this.
Correct. But if you really have the urge to run a red light, stop first and you won't get a ticket. ;)
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.
At some intersections, the lower traffic direction needs to be triggered by either a car or a pedestrian pressing the button.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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True that... Although, sometimes I'll see the countdown timer get to a point where I won't make the intersection before the amber. So I start braking and to my surprise, the light doesn't change and the walk signal goes back to the walk symbol. Doh!

Other than they're just messing with us, I've never been able to figure why that happens. I've seen it happen at intersections (which usually aren't too busy) with no other cars or pedestrians present.
Yeah, I've encountered those. I can't find any explanation for them, nor can I imagine any rationale. But as a pedestrian-by-preference, I start from a negative bias whenever I consider Toronto's anti-pedestrian version of those timers.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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At some intersections, the lower traffic direction needs to be triggered by either a car or a pedestrian pressing the button.
In which case converting the old signal to a countdown was a waste of money. In fact, adding a Walk/Don't Walk to the standard traffic signal at such an intersection was a waste of money.

That sort of non-standard countdown serves no good purpose, only bad. It confuses and misinforms drivers, while it arbitrarily and needlessly deprives any pedestrians of a crossing opportunity, because it is illegal to step into the crosswalk while it is counting.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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In which case converting the old signal to a countdown was a waste of money. In fact, adding a Walk/Don't Walk to the standard traffic signal at such an intersection was a waste of money.

That sort of non-standard countdown serves no good purpose, only bad. It confuses and misinforms drivers, while it arbitrarily and needlessly deprives any pedestrians of a crossing opportunity, because it is illegal to step into thew crosswalk while it is counting.
100% ^^^ It makes absolutely no sense.

On another note, I used to have a sport bike that was largely composed of aluminum and plastic. At some intersections, I'd often have to get off my bike and push the walk signal in order to get the light to change. Otherwise I could be waiting for hours. lol
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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100% ^^^ It makes absolutely no sense.

On another note, I used to have a sport bike that was largely composed of aluminum and plastic. At some intersections, I'd often have to get off my bike and push the walk signal in order to get the light to change. Otherwise I could be waiting for hours. lol
Some intersections have special sensors in the asphalt for bikes. They're marked with sizeable white dots. I was told sticking a rare-earth magnet low on your bike frame helps the car sensors detect you, but the button push is easy.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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Some intersections have special sensors in the asphalt for bikes. They're marked with sizeable white dots. I was told sticking a rare-earth magnet low on your bike frame helps the car sensors detect you, but the button push is easy.
Never heard of the special sensors for bikes, but I no longer have mine so I'm not up on those things. I sold my bike in the mid 90s. By sticking a rare earth magnet to the frame, you mean with duct tape or double sided adhesive, right? ;)
 
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