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Let China fume. Canadian police were right to arrest Meng Wanzhou

Zaibetter

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Mar 27, 2016
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The shit is about to hit the fan China has just threatened Canada with consequences if they don't release the woman.

There’s been an interesting undercurrent to the story of the arrest of Meng Wanzhou by Canadian officials this week. Meng is an executive with Huawei, a Chinese telecommunications giant, which has been long suspected of doing wiretap work for China’s intelligence services, and is thus restricted from doing business with several of Canada’s closest allies, notably the United States. Meng is also, as has been widely reported, well-connected with the ruling regime in Beijing — a member of China’s corporate royalty. And her arrest by Canada, on a U.S. warrant, has led many to wonder if China will retaliate in some way against Canada.

And what if it does?

Seriously. What if it does? It probably will, in fact. It would not be surprising in the least if Beijing found some absurd excuse to clamp down on Canadian exports to China, or cancelled planned investments in our country. It’s not inconceivable that Beijing’s authoritarian regime might even arrest some Canadians on trumped-up charges as a way of pressuring Ottawa.

A woman walks past an advertisement for Huawei at a subway station in Hong Kong on Dec. 5, 2018. Vincent Yu/AP
These are not trivial concerns. The pain China could inflict on Canada is not a laughing matter. But was there any realistic prospect that Canada would not honour the American request for Meng’s arrest and extradition?

At time of writing, there is not a lot of information publicly available regarding the case due to a court-ordered publication ban. Sources have told the media that the allegations relate to Meng having sought to skirt trade sanctions against Iran. But whatever the specific allegation, Canada and the U.S. are both nations governed by the rule of law. Cross-border law-enforcement co-operation is routine and generally seamless. That includes the extradition of wanted suspects, in both directions, not least because of our long-standing extradition treaty together. It is certainly awkward for Canada, which has long sought expanded trade relations with China — despite its appalling (and lately, worsening) human-rights record — to have been asked to make this arrest, particularly right when the federal Liberal government has been trying its best to cozy up to Beijing. But there were no grounds upon which Canada could refuse. This is a country that lives up to its legal obligations, or at least strives to. This is not, and should not have been, any different.


Which is precisely what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in the face of considerable Chinese diplomatic and media outrage. “The appropriate authorities took the decisions in this case,” the prime minister said. “We were advised by them with a few days’ notice that this was in the works but of course there was no engagement or involvement in the political level in this decision because we respect the independence of our judicial processes.”

Exactly right. Only time will tell what the substance of the charges against Meng are, and whether the U.S. case is solid. In the meantime, Canada honoured its obligations under international law and co-operated with its closest ally. China is a country that routinely violates international norms with flagrancy. And it may well choose to retaliate. So be it. Canada can’t allow itself to be deterred from living up to its commitments and its ideals by threats. If China expected we would be, let it be disappointed.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np...ht-to-arrest-meng-wanzhou?video_autoplay=true
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,776
113
Any Canadian executive on a visit to China would be well advised to return home asap.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
2,079
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36
She is accused of violating US trade sanctions on Iran.

The US is applying its laws to a foreign national engaged in dealing with another foreign country. The US is applying its laws outside its territory.

If Canada extradites her to the US, Canada will henceforth be agreeing with US law being applied to citizens of third countries dealing in other foreign countries.

That means that any Canadian business people dealing with countries with US trade embargoes could be extradited to the US to be charged with violating US laws. That includes Canadians trading with or operating businesses in Cuba.

Trudeau senior (I'm not a great admirer) must be rolling in his grave.

The Canadian decision to proceed with thiks is entirely political, as the arrest stage, the proceedings for extradition, as well as the final extradition order must be approved by the Minister of Justice.

Huawei can retaliate by eliminating the hundreds of millions of dollars it funds Canadian universities and researchers, and walk away from G5 development in Canada. China can retaliate by telling Alberta that it prefers Russian oil and gas to Canadian oil and gas, and chopping whatever else Canada has trouble exporting to the US, including lumber.

So go ahead, Justin, cow-towing to Americans geopolitics while letting them screw us on trade.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,776
113
She is accused of violating US trade sanctions on Iran.

The US is applying its laws to a foreign national engaged in dealing with another foreign country. The US is applying its laws outside its territory.

If Canada extradites her to the US, Canada will henceforth be agreeing with US law being applied to citizens of third countries dealing in other foreign countries.

That means that any Canadian business people dealing with countries with US trade embargoes could be extradited to the US to be charged with violating US laws. That includes Canadians trading with or operating businesses in Cuba.

Trudeau senior (I'm not a great admirer) must be rolling in his grave.

The Canadian decision to proceed with thiks is entirely political, as the arrest stage, the proceedings for extradition, as well as the final extradition order must be approved by the Minister of Justice.

Huawei can retaliate by eliminating the hundreds of millions of dollars it funds Canadian universities and researchers, and walk away from G5 development in Canada. China can retaliate by telling Alberta that it prefers Russian oil and gas to Canadian oil and gas, and chopping whatever else Canada has trouble exporting to the US, including lumber.

So go ahead, Justin, cow-towing to Americans geopolitics while letting them screw us on trade.
As a Canadian, I am embarrassed. If we do not protect our sovereignty, we might as well become the next 7 States in USA. Farewell health care.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,325
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None of the allegation AFIK occured in the USA. All the evidence is hearsay, based on a powerpoint etc. I hope the Canadian judges will see through this bullcrap and say the US cannot exetend the reach of it law to this extent and send this woman on her way. The US decision is DEFINITELY polictically motiovated. Why did they choose NOW to issue this warrant Why are there no charges against Huawei?
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,135
6,344
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Room 112
None of the allegation AFIK occured in the USA. All the evidence is hearsay, based on a powerpoint etc. I hope the Canadian judges will see through this bullcrap and say the US cannot exetend the reach of it law to this extent and send this woman on her way. The US decision is DEFINITELY polictically motiovated. Why did they choose NOW to issue this warrant Why are there no charges against Huawei?
You clearly have no idea the bullshit China is pulling. They are a pariah. But you and your ilk keep bloviating about Russian collusion. Can't see the forest for the trees.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
2,079
0
36
You clearly have no idea the bullshit China is pulling. They are a pariah. But you and your ilk keep bloviating about Russian collusion. Can't see the forest for the trees.
If Canada is acting because 'the bullshit China is pulling', then it's entirely for political reasons, and nothing to do with the rule of law, and especially concerning a single individual.

The US is now a fascist state. That's when their mega-corporations control the government. Their corporate media brainwash their citizens into believing all this bullshit about patriotism, stars and stripes, defending freedom, promoting democracy, and these fake ideals making it worthwhile to sacrifice themselves while doing their patriotic duty. Plenty of volunteers then for the armed forces and the deep state to get what they want overseas, like the resources of small and weak countries at cheap prices, leaving practically nothing for the locals. There's no shortage of Armed Forces volunteers from the 'deplorables' class, since doing army time is the only way they can get our level of medicare and education. Neo-liberalism has exported the good paying union jobs overseas, while cutting back social programs.

You have a country with a one-party state, that calls itself communist but is capitalist, that has lifted one half billion of its people out of poverty in the last 40 years, while the beacon of democracy, the US, has done the opposite to a large proportion of its population through the trickle down economy: concentration of wealth for the 1%. The result is rampant poverty, with people trying to hold on to their middle class status by working 3 low-paying jobs 80 hours a week. There are no tent cities in China; but you have tent cities in the US, and people living in their cars.

Yeah, look at all the bullshit China is pulling: like building roads, railroads, airports and other infrastructure in Africa and South America, so countries there can develop their economies, so that local people can turn around and increase their purchasing power to buy Chinese goods.... all the while, the only aid the US is giving to its vassals is helicopter gunships and training those foreign troops in counter insurgency, to fight people who fight back to take their land back from the corporations.
'
You clearly have no idea the bullshit the US is pulling. Why do you think all those people from Honduras are fleeing to the US? Because the US has been supporting a dictatorship there since 2009, while their US trained death squads are bumping off anybody that objects to the corporations kicking them off their land.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,819
1,603
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We make an enemy out of China to be whipping boy for the Yanks, who still have steel tariffs on us? I don't get it.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
2,079
0
36
We make an enemy out of China to be whipping boy for the Yanks, who still have steel tariffs on us? I don't get it.
Clementine Churchill: "General, you must not hate your friends more than you hate your enemies"
De Gaulle (in English): "France has no friends, only interests."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”


Henry Kissiger

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."

Lord Palmerston
 

glamphotographer

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2011
15,901
15,641
113
Canada
The shit is about to hit the fan China has just threatened Canada with consequences if they don't release the woman.

There’s been an interesting undercurrent to the story of the arrest of Meng Wanzhou by Canadian officials this week. Meng is an executive with Huawei, a Chinese telecommunications giant, which has been long suspected of doing wiretap work for China’s intelligence services, and is thus restricted from doing business with several of Canada’s closest allies, notably the United States. Meng is also, as has been widely reported, well-connected with the ruling regime in Beijing — a member of China’s corporate royalty. And her arrest by Canada, on a U.S. warrant, has led many to wonder if China will retaliate in some way against Canada.

And what if it does?

Seriously. What if it does? It probably will, in fact. It would not be surprising in the least if Beijing found some absurd excuse to clamp down on Canadian exports to China, or cancelled planned investments in our country. It’s not inconceivable that Beijing’s authoritarian regime might even arrest some Canadians on trumped-up charges as a way of pressuring Ottawa.

A woman walks past an advertisement for Huawei at a subway station in Hong Kong on Dec. 5, 2018. Vincent Yu/AP
These are not trivial concerns. The pain China could inflict on Canada is not a laughing matter. But was there any realistic prospect that Canada would not honour the American request for Meng’s arrest and extradition?

At time of writing, there is not a lot of information publicly available regarding the case due to a court-ordered publication ban. Sources have told the media that the allegations relate to Meng having sought to skirt trade sanctions against Iran. But whatever the specific allegation, Canada and the U.S. are both nations governed by the rule of law. Cross-border law-enforcement co-operation is routine and generally seamless. That includes the extradition of wanted suspects, in both directions, not least because of our long-standing extradition treaty together. It is certainly awkward for Canada, which has long sought expanded trade relations with China — despite its appalling (and lately, worsening) human-rights record — to have been asked to make this arrest, particularly right when the federal Liberal government has been trying its best to cozy up to Beijing. But there were no grounds upon which Canada could refuse. This is a country that lives up to its legal obligations, or at least strives to. This is not, and should not have been, any different.


Which is precisely what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in the face of considerable Chinese diplomatic and media outrage. “The appropriate authorities took the decisions in this case,” the prime minister said. “We were advised by them with a few days’ notice that this was in the works but of course there was no engagement or involvement in the political level in this decision because we respect the independence of our judicial processes.”

Exactly right. Only time will tell what the substance of the charges against Meng are, and whether the U.S. case is solid. In the meantime, Canada honoured its obligations under international law and co-operated with its closest ally. China is a country that routinely violates international norms with flagrancy. And it may well choose to retaliate. So be it. Canada can’t allow itself to be deterred from living up to its commitments and its ideals by threats. If China expected we would be, let it be disappointed.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np...ht-to-arrest-meng-wanzhou?video_autoplay=true
So your happy with Trudeau now?

Meanwhile my friend who works for Huawei in Markham is shitting his pants, worried that they may close up business in Canada.

Besides, the US and the Saudi's have gotten away with more crimes.
 

glamphotographer

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2011
15,901
15,641
113
Canada
She is accused of violating US trade sanctions on Iran.

The US is applying its laws to a foreign national engaged in dealing with another foreign country. The US is applying its laws outside its territory.

If Canada extradites her to the US, Canada will henceforth be agreeing with US law being applied to citizens of third countries dealing in other foreign countries.

That means that any Canadian business people dealing with countries with US trade embargoes could be extradited to the US to be charged with violating US laws. That includes Canadians trading with or operating businesses in Cuba.

Trudeau senior (I'm not a great admirer) must be rolling in his grave.

The Canadian decision to proceed with thiks is entirely political, as the arrest stage, the proceedings for extradition, as well as the final extradition order must be approved by the Minister of Justice.

Huawei can retaliate by eliminating the hundreds of millions of dollars it funds Canadian universities and researchers, and walk away from G5 development in Canada. China can retaliate by telling Alberta that it prefers Russian oil and gas to Canadian oil and gas, and chopping whatever else Canada has trouble exporting to the US, including lumber.

So go ahead, Justin, cow-towing to Americans geopolitics while letting them screw us on trade.
It could send us into deeper recession. We can forget about trying complete a pipeline to get oil out to China. Better save for a rainy day. I'm cancelling chritmas, no gifts.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
2,079
0
36
The shit is about to hit the fan China has just threatened Canada with consequences if they don't release the woman.

There’s been an interesting undercurrent to the story of the arrest of Meng Wanzhou by Canadian officials this week. Meng is an executive with Huawei, a Chinese telecommunications giant, which has been long suspected of doing wiretap work for China’s intelligence services, and is thus restricted from doing business with several of Canada’s closest allies, notably the United States. Meng is also, as has been widely reported, well-connected with the ruling regime in Beijing — a member of China’s corporate royalty. And her arrest by Canada, on a U.S. warrant, has led many to wonder if China will retaliate in some way against Canada.

And what if it does?

Seriously. What if it does? It probably will, in fact. It would not be surprising in the least if Beijing found some absurd excuse to clamp down on Canadian exports to China, or cancelled planned investments in our country. It’s not inconceivable that Beijing’s authoritarian regime might even arrest some Canadians on trumped-up charges as a way of pressuring Ottawa.

A woman walks past an advertisement for Huawei at a subway station in Hong Kong on Dec. 5, 2018. Vincent Yu/AP
These are not trivial concerns. The pain China could inflict on Canada is not a laughing matter. But was there any realistic prospect that Canada would not honour the American request for Meng’s arrest and extradition?

At time of writing, there is not a lot of information publicly available regarding the case due to a court-ordered publication ban. Sources have told the media that the allegations relate to Meng having sought to skirt trade sanctions against Iran. But whatever the specific allegation, Canada and the U.S. are both nations governed by the rule of law. Cross-border law-enforcement co-operation is routine and generally seamless. That includes the extradition of wanted suspects, in both directions, not least because of our long-standing extradition treaty together. It is certainly awkward for Canada, which has long sought expanded trade relations with China — despite its appalling (and lately, worsening) human-rights record — to have been asked to make this arrest, particularly right when the federal Liberal government has been trying its best to cozy up to Beijing. But there were no grounds upon which Canada could refuse. This is a country that lives up to its legal obligations, or at least strives to. This is not, and should not have been, any different.


Which is precisely what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in the face of considerable Chinese diplomatic and media outrage. “The appropriate authorities took the decisions in this case,” the prime minister said. “We were advised by them with a few days’ notice that this was in the works but of course there was no engagement or involvement in the political level in this decision because we respect the independence of our judicial processes.”

Exactly right. Only time will tell what the substance of the charges against Meng are, and whether the U.S. case is solid. In the meantime, Canada honoured its obligations under international law and co-operated with its closest ally. China is a country that routinely violates international norms with flagrancy. And it may well choose to retaliate. So be it. Canada can’t allow itself to be deterred from living up to its commitments and its ideals by threats. If China expected we would be, let it be disappointed.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np...ht-to-arrest-meng-wanzhou?video_autoplay=true
Utter bullshit.

US sanctions on Iran aren't international law: they are US laws applied extraterritorially to third parties. Canada does not (or is not supposed to) accept such foreign laws. Otherwise, Canada would have extradited to the US, many Canadian business executives who have been trading with Cuba, or operating businesses there, like mining operations, for breaking US sanctions on Cuba. Shiny Pony just established a precedent making Canada subject to US law. That's what you get for appointing Ministers from a diminishing gene pool, just because it looks good.

China can cause a lot of Canadians to lose their jobs, without affecting their own economy. One small (for them) example are the lobster fishermen on the East Coast. A 747 load of lobsters every week to China is not even a drop in the bucket for China, but would result in significant harm to East Coat fishermen. Fancy Shanghai restaurants can just as well get them from Russia.

Extradition is entirely political, as each step has to be approved by the Minister of Justice. It's not automatic, since requests for extradition may have to do with political or commercial reasons, as in this case. Huawei is now the world leader in telecom sales and innovation, and the leader in 5G technology, leaving the US behind. When the US imposed tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber, or aluminium, was there any doubt that it was done in order to promote US industry? There is no difference in this case.
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
5,058
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113
web.archive.org
Too bad some fall guy didn't just let her hop on the next jet to China and avoid this whole thing. Probably easier to explain a "my bad" to the USA then what is going on now.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,819
1,603
113
So your happy with Trudeau now?

Meanwhile my friend who works for Huawei in Markham is shitting his pants, worried that they may close up business in Canada.

Besides, the US and the Saudi's have gotten away with more crimes.
This a bone headed move by Trudeau (and if he had nothing to do with it, he is asleep at the wheel). Harper would have done it too, and then he'd bend over to take Trump's spunk. I can only guess that the yanks made some forceful threats to Canada, otherwise why piss off such a powerful nation as China, just to kiss Trump's ass knowing that he'll turn around and screw you tomorrow. If Meng broke an American law, what does that have to do with us? Are we gonna hand over all the Canadians who did business with Cuba next??? This could cost us big time.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,353
4,776
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According to Reuters, former Canadian diplomat Michael Kovrig has been detained in China
 

Insidious Von

My head is my home
Sep 12, 2007
38,090
6,424
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Some of you folks are ridiculous.

Trump is not a dictator, he can be voted out in 2020. If he refuses to leave, The Joint Chiefs of Staff will have him carried out.

Meng Wanzhou is the daughter of a Mao Princeling. The children of the Cultural Revolution who now rule the PRC. President Xi has a lifetime term as leader of of the Princelings and by extension the PRC. China has been openly faulting the American sanctions, selling technology to Iran in exchange for oil. Of course some of you are pissed since Justin is handling this crisis instead of Superstud Scheer, I understand.
 

Fathammer

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
961
0
0
. If Meng broke an American law, what does that have to do with us? Are we gonna hand over all the Canadians who did business with Cuba next??? This could cost us big time.
I think you should read up on the crime that was committed before you make such a statement.

She broke an agreement that involved America on a global level and Canada was housing a criminal because of it. Canada had no choice but to give her up.

Looks like Trump had the wool pulled over JT's eyes again? just as our pussy leader was making trade deals with China against Americas wishes.....tsk, tsk....Now who looks stupid?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
23,932
3,679
113
She is accused of violating US trade sanctions on Iran.

The US is applying its laws to a foreign national engaged in dealing with another foreign country. The US is applying its laws outside its territory.

If Canada extradites her to the US, Canada will henceforth be agreeing with US law being applied to citizens of third countries dealing in other foreign countries.

That means that any Canadian business people dealing with countries with US trade embargoes could be extradited to the US to be charged with violating US laws. That includes Canadians trading with or operating businesses in Cuba.

Trudeau senior (I'm not a great admirer) must be rolling in his grave.

The Canadian decision to proceed with thiks is entirely political, as the arrest stage, the proceedings for extradition, as well as the final extradition order must be approved by the Minister of Justice.

Huawei can retaliate by eliminating the hundreds of millions of dollars it funds Canadian universities and researchers, and walk away from G5 development in Canada. China can retaliate by telling Alberta that it prefers Russian oil and gas to Canadian oil and gas, and chopping whatever else Canada has trouble exporting to the US, including lumber.

So go ahead, Justin, cow-towing to Americans geopolitics while letting them screw us on trade.
Her company, Huawei is accused of selling US patented technology through a shell company in China set up by Huawei to Iran.

It's not that Huawei is doing business with Iran.

She will get her day in court and I have every confidence that she will receive a fair trail. If she is guilty of violating international trade laws, then she's going to have to pay the price.

I'd be thrilled if Huawei walked away from G5 development in Canada. Huawei is a well known puppet of the Chinese government and they regularly spy for the Chinese government with their communications infrastructure. Australia, the USA, Britain all want Huawei out. That tells you something.
 
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