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Ford fucked the province

Thread starter basketcase
Start date Dec 5, 2018

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basketcase

Well-known member

#1

Seems that US regulators are extremely worried about governmental interference in Hydro One and are screwing up what would have been an amazing money maker for the province.

It seems strange that a Conservative politician is arguing for nationalization of corporations and stopping private industry simply because it was the other party that made the decision.

But hey, at least the tax on beer was cut by 1 cent.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ting-political-interference-by-doug-ford.html

essguy_

Active member

#2

Ironically, the Avista takeover was the one area where Ford could have legitimated questioned Mayo Schmidt’s leadership and motives and possibly fired for cause. Eg: why would Hydro One (an Ontario based transmission company) want to acquire a Washington based transmission company? When this happened, I thought the Wynne Govt should have been raising a lot of red flags. Schmidt had ties to Washington State which may have influenced his targeting of Avista. There is absolutely nothing this acquisition did for Hydro One’s Ontario customers. It was one of these transactions that idiot politicians imagine a privatized Govt utility should do and they were too scared to ask tough questions lest their total ignorance be revealed. Avista benefits from Hydro One’s access to capital. That’s the only reason this transaction made any sense. We (the voting public) get no benefit yet we are the ones who are still saddled with Hydro One’s stranded debt. Our Govt should have used their ownership position to vote against this acquisition. Of course, I was somewhat hedged as I had an ownership position in Hydro One shares at the time - but this acquisition made NO sense from a Hydro One customer perspective - in fact it hurts Ontario Customers by taking management time away from Ontario to the West coast.

Having this acquisition blocked is good news for Ontario customers even if it’s bad news for Hydro One. It’s just too bad that Ford was too stupid and bought Mayo out vs questioning his motives for this acquisition in the first place (Wynne screwed up here too). Now we are out Mayo’s buyout as well as the $113 mln kill fee.

nottyboi

Well-known member

#3

I honestly do not see why the 103M fee needs to be paid, this is a force majeure situation, not based on any intent of Hydro One to not consumate the deal. But hey, maybe it was in the agreement.

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing

#4

Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

Anbarandy

Bitter House****

#5

nottyboi said:
I honestly do not see why the 103M fee needs to be paid, this is a force majeure situation, not based on any intent of Hydro One to not consumate the deal. But hey, maybe it was in the agreement.

There is the "bloviating blowhard" clause.

Anbarandy

Bitter House****

#6

K Douglas said:
Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

You're looking at one in real time now.

Frankfooter

dangling member

#7

K Douglas said:
Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

They weren't that bad, made some choices to pander for votes but there is no sign of corruption or real fuckery.
Ford tried his own witch hunt and even he couldn't find anything.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edi...-into-liberal-wrongdoing-has-fallen-flat.html

essguy_

Active member

#8

K Douglas said:
Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

Rae actually didn't do nearly as bad a job as people think. He took office at the height of a recession (he didn't cause it - as Ford believes). And the funny thing is (well, I find it funny) is that he did some bold moves by thinking outside of the box. His "Rae Days" were actually a brilliant way to reduce Govt cost without laying people off. No other party could have proposed it. It was a pragmatic choice made during hard times. But the idiot union heads thought they would get a better deal with another party - so they abandoned and turned on Rae and rolled the dice. Result: Mike Harris. I still chuckle about that.

mandrill

Well-known member

#9

K Douglas said:
Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

Kirk, I predict that Dougie will exceed Rae, Wynne and both Trudeaus all put together in his own cataclysmic buggering of the province. I will gloat publicly when that happens and you will be inwardly ashamed and outwardly in denial.

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing

#10

essguy_ said:
Rae actually didn't do nearly as bad a job as people think. He took office at the height of a recession (he didn't cause it - as Ford believes). And the funny thing is (well, I find it funny) is that he did some bold moves by thinking outside of the box. His "Rae Days" were actually a brilliant way to reduce Govt cost without laying people off. No other party could have proposed it. It was a pragmatic choice made during hard times. But the idiot union heads thought they would get a better deal with another party - so they abandoned and turned on Rae and rolled the dice. Result: Mike Harris. I still chuckle about that.

The Rae government was an unmitigated disaster. By pretty much every measure. Yes they took over in an economic downturn but their policies made things much worse. It was so bad for Rae he had to switch political parties.

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing

#11

oagre said:
Kirk, I predict that Dougie will exceed Rae, Wynne and both Trudeaus all put together in his own cataclysmic buggering of the province. I will gloat publicly when that happens and you will be inwardly ashamed and outwardly in denial.

You're dreaming in technicolor. Ford will be infinitely better for the province than either Wynne or Rae. Wynne has all but admitted that they cooked the books. They did so knowingly and were not forthright about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Sousa eventually loses his accounting designation.

Frankfooter

dangling member

#12

K Douglas said:
You're dreaming in technicolor. Ford will be infinitely better for the province than either Wynne or Rae. Wynne has all but admitted that they cooked the books. They did so knowingly and were not forthright about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Sousa eventually loses his accounting designation.

Really?

In the news today:
https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...ulator-zaps-hydro-one-takeover-of-avista.html
https://www.thestar.com/politics/pr...fusing-to-sign-off-on-15-billion-deficit.html
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...ouncil-wont-save-what-he-said-they-would.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ith-future-opp-commissioner-ron-taverner.html

essguy_

Active member

#13

K Douglas said:
The Rae government was an unmitigated disaster. By pretty much every measure. Yes they took over in an economic downturn but their policies made things much worse. It was so bad for Rae he had to switch political parties.

Details... when you make statements like that, I would expect you to provide details - including how Rae's handling of an economic downturn contrasted with eg: Harper. Remember - Rae was only in power as Premier for one term. He was sworn in during a recession which lasted for the first 2 years as Premier. Remember - Rae actually made cuts to the civil service - they were just within the hated "Social Contract" which had the enforced unpaid days off. To this day, I think that was an inspired approach - something that might actually be popular to bring back as a way to cut Civil Service without layoffs. For the Civil Service - yes - it's an unpaid day off and therefore a cut in pay - but it beats a layoff with no benefits which is what WILL come without some out of the box thinking.

azeri99

Banned

#14

Ontario has been in a tailspin for decades we haven't had a good leader in ages, I doubt Doug Ford will be any better, Wynne was so bad the Liberals lost party status, something i never thought would ever happen in Ontario

basketcase

Well-known member

#15

essguy_ said:
Ironically, the Avista takeover was the one area where Ford could have legitimated questioned Mayo Schmidt’s leadership and motives and possibly fired for cause. Eg: why would Hydro One (an Ontario based transmission company) want to acquire a Washington based transmission company? ...

I know it's complicated but private companies have this weird idea of making a profit. Being the major stake holder in the company, the province would have reaped a significant benefit instead of becoming a financial loss.

And I know people miss it but the whole reason behind the privatization was for Hydro top make profitable moves like the one they made to expand to the US. It was a very strong business plan that Ford undermined purely out of spite. I'm just glad I managed to unload my shares early in Ford's campaign.

essguy_

Active member

#16

basketcase said:
I know it's complicated but private companies have this weird idea of making a profit. Being the major stake holder in the company, the province would have reaped a significant benefit instead of becoming a financial loss.

And I know people miss it but the whole reason behind the privatization was for Hydro top make profitable moves like the one they made to expand to the US. It was a very strong business plan that Ford undermined purely out of spite. I'm just glad I managed to unload my shares early in Ford's campaign.

That was my point. You assume that Avista was the best of all possible target acquisitions. I question that. Schmidt had a history and connections to Washington State and I suspect that that provided a bias towards Avista. That is why I believe that Ford COULD have questioned this acquisition which I personally believe was not properly vetted by the board (and I followed this acquisition from the moment it became public). Certainly for an Ontario based Transmission company to manage a West Coast transmission company stretched management resources. Further - the main reason for the acquisition was because Avista was having trouble raising capital - so the idea was that money would be raised and the assets improved and everybody wins. Again - was this the best strategy when the target company is on the West Coast and Hydro One was fairly fresh from their IPO? Further - there is no history or expertise within Hydro One for taking over another company even near Ontario - let alone the West Coast. Our Govt still had a majority stake in Hydro One and had a duty to do due diligence on this transaction. I believe they failed. I believe that Ford missed an opportunity to get out of this and even use it politically. In other words - it was a clusterfuck all around.

But if you can make the case that Avista was a great acquisition - by all means make it. It made didn't make sense to me - and I looked at it pretty in depth.

basketcase

Well-known member

#17

essguy_ said:
That was my point. You assume that Avista was the best of all possible target acquisitions. I question that. ....

I spent a long time studying the prospectus of Hydro One's business and planned acquisitions and they looked pretty rock solid.

You also miss that Ford didn't make the decision to stop the acquisition, it was US regulators that were concerned about Ford's political meddling.

essguy_

Active member

#18

basketcase said:
I spent a long time studying the prospectus of Hydro One's business and planned acquisitions and they looked pretty rock solid.

You also miss that Ford didn't make the decision to stop the acquisition, it was US regulators that were concerned about Ford's political meddling.

No, you missed the point. I said that Ford could have used this acquisition to both question the board as well as Schmidt. When the acquisition closed it was too late to cancel without incurring fees. Thus Ford COULD have done this in a way that laid the blame for the acquisition at the feet of the previous Govt for not doing their due diligence. i.e. they fucked up. He might have also been able to use this as a reason to dismiss the board as well as Schmidt for cause. But he didn't - HE fucked up.

That doesn't mean the cancelled acquisition is a bad thing - in fact for Hydro One - I think it will work out just fine.

JohnLarue

Well-known member

#19

basketcase said:
And I know people miss it but the whole reason behind the privatization was for Hydro top make profitable moves like the one they made to expand to the US. It was a very strong business plan that Ford undermined purely out of spite. I'm just glad I managed to unload my shares early in Ford's campaign.

Yeah too bad the market liked the fact the Avista deal was dead. Up on a day when the markets tanked because of US China trade tensions
Analysts were saying it was not a strategically good deal.

But hey, you may know better than the market (not)

wigglee

Well-known member

#20

K Douglas said:
Funny. You know you really fucked the province - the Wynne government. With assistance from the Trudeau government. Never thought I would see a worse government than Bob Rae's NDP but the Wynne government might just take the cake. Fucking sickening.

Give DoFo a chance... he will outscrew them all!

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