Basement Re-Finishing

HelloMsDoll said:

I had so much success with my winter tire question, here comes my next "don't have a man, need man advice" question....

What is a good price for a basement reno on about 1200 square feet. Assuming middle of the road finishes and otherwise straight forward requests.

Things you need to know:

• There is currently a bathroom but I would be adding a shower - plumbing changes
• I would want the laundry moved and an additional laundry sink - plumbing changes
• Located outside of the GTA but within reasonable distance to a major city

What can I expect? How do I make sure I am not taken for a ride? If you have done this recently and have advice for me please impart your wisdom ;-)

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If you need a Durham based contractor, message me.

Mine without bathroom, no plumbing, minor electrical and pot lights was just over 5K

It's almost impossible to give you a $ figure out of the blue.

Best advise I could offer would be ask around for the names of good reputable local contractors and get at the very least 3 written quotes. Only get quotes from contractors that are insured, offer references, and check the references. Do a little online research into what's involved in the changes you want so you have a better idea if the quote is reasonable or the guy is padding it. I've done a few projects that where like your's not major but not a afternoon fix, everytime there was at least one guy who was full of crap and trying to tell me I needed work that was unnecessary. Also wouldn't hurt to have a friend who does know a little about reno's to be there when you talk to the contractors. Even middle of the road and straight forward requests can add up to a decent amount of $$$$ when you are talking about 1200 sq feet.

Jessica Rain said:

If you need a Durham based contractor, message me.

Mine without bathroom, no plumbing, minor electrical and pot lights was just over 5K

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The plumbing/bathroom changes could easily double that in a heartbeat. Shower will require breaking the slab, installing the the drain, installing supply lines. Moving the laundry may require this too, depending upon the distance of the move. It all depends upon what you want to do and how you want to finish. Middle of the road still covers a lot of ground. If you're tearing out existing finish - consider re-insulating with spray foam - super for a basement.

With any reno - I always advise that you make a "must have" list as well as a "nice to have" list. Then get a budget based upon the "must have" and as much as you can - stretch to get some or all of the "nice to have". Hindsight with most reno's means that you will look back and say to yourself "I wish I had done XXXXXX at the time". You want to minimize this without going overboard. Eg: If you're re-doing the flooring, if you can heat certain portions - it's great for a basement. Never believed that it was worth the expense until I installed it in my master bath. It's like heated seats in a car - once you have them, you never want to do without. Also there have been advances for basement flooring in the past few years.

There's a product called "Luxury Vinyl Plank" or "Luxury Vinyl Tile" that's an alternative solid flooring for a basement vs the more expensive ceramic floor or hardwood laminate floor (which is not wise for a basement, IMO). Luxury vinyl is not your parent's linoleum. It actually looks and feels pretty good and can tolerate moisture (a must for a basement). It can be used in bathrooms. Easy and quick to install, can be heated, and cost wise - it's less than hardwood/engineered hardwood for material and cheaper to install for labour. For resale - it will not hurt, unlike broadloom or linoleum and as it becomes more popular, may actually be in demand for resale.

First thing, are you doing a complete reno? Contractors will do an estimate base on the overall job. Are they ripping apart stuff? You want to build a washroom? Is it bare concrete that you want to put hardwood floors? The contractors who are capable to do the whole scope of the job (plumbing, electrical, flooring, framing) are the most cost efficient. Some contractors bring in different trades so they will charge a premium. If you're in a tight budget. It's best to do your own plans and deal with every trades individually that way you can gradually do renovations. I used to do subcontracts for flooring applications but have long been out of the residential game. If you have your plans set, the framers are the first you need to deal first. Plumbing would be the most expensive.

HelloMsDoll said:

I had so much success with my winter tire question, here comes my next "don't have a man, need man advice" question....

What is a good price for a basement reno on about 1200 square feet. Assuming middle of the road finishes and otherwise straight forward requests.

Things you need to know:

• There is currently a bathroom but I would be adding a shower - plumbing changes
• I would want the laundry moved and an additional laundry sink - plumbing changes
• Located outside of the GTA but within reasonable distance to a major city

What can I expect? How do I make sure I am not taken for a ride? If you have done this recently and have advice for me please impart your wisdom ;-)

Click to expand...

Without knowing full details of what you want included?? hardwood, carpet, what the plumbing finishes entail, will this be used by yourself or will it be a basement apartment and etc....so many other questions that would need to be answered.
But a basement finished of that size will cost you at least $15000 in the GTA not sure of your area but prices could be a lot lower depending on your area outside of the GTA.

Just take the following points into mind before hiring a contractor.
There are just as many good contractors out there as there are bad so find a few through google or friends and then pick 2 or 3 and have them see your place to give you a quote and then pick the one whose work and attitude you trust the most. If the contractor doesn't give you a good vibe, is rude, is late and unapologetic, puts off meeting you more than once hire the next person believe me you'll save yourself a lot of headaches.
Make sure you have a contract signed, if the contractor says no contract is needed, just let him know that so you understand fully what is included in the job and what the reimbursements are you'd want one for your piece of mind. If he insists on no contract because he's giving you a deal move on to the next contractor.
Payments should be made in 1/3 with 1/3 upfront, 1/3 halfway through the job and the last 1/3 at the finish of the job.

You really need a set of drawings and specs (i.e. a design) to be able to get any sort of pricing.

Sorry to be buzz kill and I know people will disagree with me, however, without drawings and specs, you do not have anything to bid on.

You can buy a toilet for $99.00 from Rona, or you can buy a Kohler for $800.00. And yes, the Kohler is that much better. Same with tiles, you can go to Rona and find tiles for $1.25 / ft2 or you can go to Olympia and find tiles for $30.00 / ft2.

Hiring a contractor without drawings and specs (i.e. a design) just opens you up to a world of problems. Some contractors do design / build work, some will subcontract out the design to an architectural tech, and some will just sell you a basement renovation. (But be aware, you will need to pay for at least the design portion of the work, even if you don't hire the guy.) This is not putting a roof on a house where you just call 3 guys for quotes. (And even then, you want to make sure that they are all quoting on the same type of materials and scope of work.)

If you can't do a design yourself, I would suggest you hire an architectural technician or a small architect or engineer and ask him to give you a detailed design suitable for construction purposes including all room finishes, plumbing schedules, electrical layout, plumbing design and full specifications. At least you'll know what you're getting and you can give the design to 3 reputable contractors and they will all quote on the same thing and you will have a set of drawings and specs for the contract.

Are you adding a separate entrance to the basement while you're at it?

HelloMsDoll said:

I had so much success with my winter tire question, here comes my next "don't have a man, need man advice" question....

What is a good price for a basement reno on about 1200 square feet. Assuming middle of the road finishes and otherwise straight forward requests.

Things you need to know:

• There is currently a bathroom but I would be adding a shower - plumbing changes
• I would want the laundry moved and an additional laundry sink - plumbing changes
• Located outside of the GTA but within reasonable distance to a major city

What can I expect? How do I make sure I am not taken for a ride? If you have done this recently and have advice for me please impart your wisdom ;-)

Click to expand...

james t kirk said:

You really need a set of drawings and specs (i.e. a design) to be able to get any sort of pricing.

Sorry to be buzz kill and I know people will disagree with me, however, without drawings and specs, you do not have anything to bid on.

You can buy a toilet for $99.00 from Rona, or you can buy a Kohler for $800.00. And yes, the Kohler is that much better. Same with tiles, you can go to Rona and find tiles for $1.25 / ft2 or you can go to Olympia and find tiles for $30.00 / ft2.

Hiring a contractor without drawings and specs (i.e. a design) just opens you up to a world of problems. Some contractors do design / build work, some will subcontract out the design to an architectural tech, and some will just sell you a basement renovation. (But be aware, you will need to pay for at least the design portion of the work, even if you don't hire the guy.) This is not putting a roof on a house where you just call 3 guys for quotes. (And even then, you want to make sure that they are all quoting on the same type of materials and scope of work.)

If you can't do a design yourself, I would suggest you hire an architectural technician or a small architect or engineer and ask him to give you a detailed design suitable for construction purposes including all room finishes, plumbing schedules, electrical layout, plumbing design and full specifications. At least you'll know what you're getting and you can give the design to 3 reputable contractors and they will all quote on the same thing and you will have a set of drawings and specs for the contract.

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I agree with JT Kirk. Yes, the first step is always to get an architect involved. But remember that you should also get it approved by the City. I know it is an additional cost, but in the long run if something does not meet certain safety standards, then you will be held liable if there is a major mishap as a result of this renovation.

But there are Carpentry / Plumbing / Electrical Courses offered by certain Institutions / Colleges. These courses are normally offered for 1 evening a week over a 4 month period. Once you take the course or courses, then you will be able to overlook the work being performed and decipher whether it meets certain standards. Also, some of the instructors on such courses are very reputable contractors, and they will probably be willing to undertake the contract themselves. If they do, then there should be no cause for concern as they do give you value for your money. You never know as you may want to do part of the work yourself!! :biggrin:

If you haven't already done so, get a flood risk assessment of your basement done first.

One of my neighbors did her basement and it flooded (4" of water) after one of the storms this Summer.

1,200 square feet is a pretty fair sized basement. My guess is to refinish a basement that size with average cost materials would be somewhere around $40K give or take 10%.

Do not get drawings for a renovation, simply not needed. A basic renovation shouldn't be more than 15k to 25k. Plumber will take a day to bust up the floor and reposition pipes. Is it mostly a wide open space that is gutted and redone?

If it is a rec room and bedroom then it is mostly lighting, receptacles and then drywall, paint and flooring. Duct work should be already in place.

I repeat do not get an architect. Also, the guy should have a very nice truck, not a beater, means he is serious about his business.

bver_hunter said:

I agree with JT Kirk. Yes, the first step is always to get an architect involved. But remember that you should also get it approved by the City. I know it is an additional cost, but in the long run if something does not meet certain safety standards, then you will be held liable if there is a major mishap as a result of this renovation.

But there are Carpentry / Plumbing / Electrical Courses offered by certain Institutions / Colleges. These courses are normally offered for 1 evening a week over a 4 month period. Once you take the course or courses, then you will be able to overlook the work being performed and decipher whether it meets certain standards. Also, some of the instructors on such courses are very reputable contractors, and they will probably be willing to undertake the contract themselves. If they do, then there should be no cause for concern as they do give you value for your money. You never know as you may want to do part of the work yourself!! :biggrin:

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Do not listen to this. If you are going to rent it out you need to meet certain requirements, if not a good contractor will know how to frame it.

I highly doubt you want to take a course on it.

wazup said:

Do not get drawings for a renovation, simply not needed. A basic renovation shouldn't be more than 15k to 25k. Plumber will take a day to bust up the floor and reposition pipes. Is it mostly a wide open space that is gutted and redone?

If it is a rec room and bedroom then it is mostly lighting, receptacles and then drywall, paint and flooring. Duct work should be already in place.

I repeat do not get an architect. Also, the guy should have a very nice truck, not a beater, means he is serious about his business.

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Follow this advice if you are stupid.

As if a "nice truck" will guarantee a good job. That's my joke for the day.

If you called an architect for a basement Reno, an honest architect will tell you not to waste your money
If your guy shows up in a minivan or an old rust bucket, don't use him, that is my tip.

The drawings should be scribbled by you on a sheet of paper. Giving a contractor drawings for a basement reno will get a few chuckles.

At a minimum, you need to have your ideas and wants/needs on paper so that when you interview your contractors you will be comparing apples to apples. Interview at least three and check references. If you have a recommendation from a friend even better (assuming they have actually used the firm). When you are short listing - A good contractor will have a book and pictures of previous work and will not be afraid if you ask to speak to former clients. If this is missing, don’t bother inviting them to prepare a quote. If you have no idea where to start, HomeStars is worth a look, I’ve used this to find a plumber and was quite happy. Look for balanced reviews.

When deciding, remember that it is not just about price. In fact if a quote is mysteriously way cheaper than the others be suspicious and ask questions. The worst mistake is hiring a contractor on price alone - it will often end up costing way more to get his mistakes fixed. Questions to ask: Eg: For the plumbing - how will he be venting the shower drain? A licensed plumber will answer this easily and quickly because he’ll actually think about that when you propose it. If it involves tearing out outside (foundation side) drywall or finishing an unfinished basement, ask about insulation and vapour barrier. Have you had any leaks or floods? Does the basement smell musty? This is the time to resolve those problems before you build back over them.

If you prepare and do your homework you’ll have a good result.

wazup said:

If you called an architect for a basement Reno, an honest architect will tell you not to waste your money
If your guy shows up in a minivan or an old rust bucket, don't use him, that is my tip.

The drawings should be scribbled by you on a sheet of paper. Giving a contractor drawings for a basement reno will get a few chuckles.

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Which is why I said find an architectural technician, or even do it yourself.

All a decent truck means is that the guy went out an leased a truck. That is not an indicator as to ability.

If you want a test, ask said contractor to show you his copy of the Building Code. Or even just ask him which chapter in the OBC covers residential construction (answer, it's chapter 9) If he has one, then at least you have a guy who likes to think. There are so many fly by night (so called) residential contractors out there, it's not funny.

I'm a big believer in clarity and taking the time to prepare a straight forward design and spec. It would not take more than 8 hours to prepare a floor plan, a few sections, details and specify what materials are desired.

Not to do so is idiotic.

Essguy has some good advice. Here's mine from someone who been in a trade for years.

1. Dont get an arch drawing for a Reno, not needed.
2. Don't think you can just start tearing walls out and have a wide open space. There is probably one down the centre that is load bearing, could be replaced with large steel beam, cha ching.$$$$$
3. Know what you want and don't change your mind if a room looks too small after being framed.
4. Buy a good tape measure.
5. I wouldn't advise asking questions like is the plumbing vented properly, it will come across as annoying if you really dont know what you're talking about. If it were me you asked, I would return with, how would you like it vented.
6. Don't pay before complete although you may have to pay progress payments. Set a time line so he doesn't disappear and put you on the backburner, never say the phrase no rush.
7. I've owned a few houses and tried the weekend warriors and trunk slammers to save money that show up in a mini van with car seats in them, dont do that.
8. What is your first impression of him, how does he present himself. If he drives a nice vehicle, look at that as a positive, not that you are somehow paying for it. Usually means he's reached some level of success. Do you like going to nice restaurants or grungy ones, same kind of thing. We all get judged on how we present ourselves.
9. Be a bitch if you have to be and SIGN A DETAILED CONTRACT of what is included!!!!!!!! All relationships start out good but don't always end up well. Dont expect free changes if you change your mind, small ones maybe, you'll get nailed for changes. Don't you or him say we'll deal with that when we get there.

Contract details might include homeowner supplies plumbing fixtures to be installed by contractor, or pot lights provided by homeowner, installed by contractor, be very detailed. Don't ever find yourself saying 'I thought that was included '

If you try organizing the different trades yourself you will find one won't show up when needed and is holding others up, another way of a soured relationship.
Good luck

Ok, rather than ask about the venting (too technical) simply insist that everything be built to code. The code exists for good reasons, so don’t accept shortcuts.

For budget, allow an extra 20% for unforeseens and changes. With a good proposal, unforeseens should not be overwhelming. Changes are normal and will cost money, so again try to minimize these. If your current basement is unfinished get some thick painters tape and lay out walls on the floor as you’re thinking about the layout.

From my own experience - it’s better to stretch and get what you want than to regret for years down the road. If that means doing the reno in stages (eg: make a really nice bathroom as Stage II, other changes as stage III). Stage one would be tearing out all that’s needed and to fix existing problems, if any (leaks, seepage, mould, insulation).

make sure your drainage is intact before tapping into your plumbing. Lotsa great advice here