EDITORIAL: Trudeau gets tough on border mess? Seriously?

Conil · Nov 11, 2018

Trudeau has no shame

Talk about closing the barn door after the horses have left.

The federal Liberals finally acknowledge they need to be tougher in dealing with our border mess.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has instructed the Canada Border Services Agency to speed up the removal of failed refugee claimants.

That agency now has a new target to remove 10,000 failed refugee claimants by March and 10,000 annually until backlogs are processed – as much as a 35% over current deportation levels.

Our newly tough-on-refugees Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who’s been at odds with ordinary Canadians over his mishandling of the “irregular migrant” crisis, now in an election year suddenly believes border integrity matters.

“Justin Trudeau says the government has been looking at ways of speeding up these cases to ensure Canada’s immigration system remains an integrated system that functions properly,” Canadian Press breathlessly reported.

We’d call for a laugh track to be played at this point if the joke wasn’t more sad than funny.

Because the problem isn’t the failure of the “system” to function properly. It’s that Trudeau and his front bench have let it fall apart.

In addition to speeding deportations up, Trudeau needs to actually address the border problems he created.

Trudeau’s irresponsible #WelcomeToCanada Tweet from Jan. 2017 misled thousands of desperate people worried about being deported from the U.S. into believing they could find safe haven in Canada.

And as thousands poured illegally across our border (Trudeau still won’t use that word), they were warehoused and shuttled from temporary camps to temporary shelters and in some cases to hotel rooms.

Our system to process refugee claims was overwhelmed.

Trudeau then saddled municipalities and provinces with hundreds of millions in new costs associated with housing and caring for those he welcomed into the country.

That’s what undermined our previously admired immigration system, which required potential migrants to meet stringent criteria and pass security and other screening.

Now tens of thousands who traveled here looking for haven and welcome will be turned away.

Goodale’s election-year step to speed up processing is, unfortunately, a necessary step to deal with the mess at our border.

But it’s far cry from doing right by those who turned to us for help and won’t restore the integrity of our battered immigration system.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/edit...EucWsxFpUPMtI7wES8-b-WKqlniXwmYuPhog#comments

mandrill · Nov 11, 2018

Another inaccurate and silly Sun editorial cut and pasted by our champion cut and paster.

Zaibetter · Nov 11, 2018

Conil said:
Trudeau has no shame

Talk about closing the barn door after the horses have left.

The federal Liberals finally acknowledge they need to be tougher in dealing with our border mess.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has instructed the Canada Border Services Agency to speed up the removal of failed refugee claimants.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/edit...EucWsxFpUPMtI7wES8-b-WKqlniXwmYuPhog#comments

The Libtards woke up. They sent very few back, they just keep jerking off and accumulating illegal economic migrants.

Frankfooter · Nov 11, 2018

Zaibetter said:
The Libtards woke up. They sent very few back, they just keep jerking off and accumulating illegal economic migrants.

I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.
Canada, like most industrial countries, has a birth rate of much less then 2.
And while I expect that your minimum wage job doesn't have a pension, should you even consider wanting to collect CPP money should you ever retire, you're going to need more people paying into the system.
That means immigrants.

Your choice:
a) Let immigrants in and get a chance for CPP money, but risk losing your minimum wage job
b) Buy some tiki torches and start marching, while saying goodbye to pension possibilities

bver_hunter · Nov 11, 2018

Frankfooter said:
I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.
Canada, like most industrial countries, has a birth rate of much less then 2.
And while I expect that your minimum wage job doesn't have a pension, should you even consider wanting to collect CPP money should you ever retire, you're going to need more people paying into the system.
That means immigrants.

Your choice:
a) Let immigrants in and get a chance for CPP money, but risk losing your minimum wage job
b) Buy some tiki torches and start marching, while saying goodbye to pension possibilities

Whatever Prime Minister Trudeau does to address this issue, there is no doubt that he will be condemned by the right wing media and their supporters.
We definitely need migrants to fill the numerous vacancies in the service industries. But the right wing press just do not mention that fact, but want to blow things out of proportion.
When Trumpty Dumpty praised Canada's Immigrant Policy where we get the cream of the crop, well all the right wingers did was condemn the American "Left" for not following the Canadian model.
Unless migrants qualify for this standard or they have genuine refugee cases, they will not be allowed permanent residence here. However, what can the Government do when these migrants arrive at the border in extreme conditions with most dehydrated and starving thank to that moron down South who created this crisis? Do they just turn them back and then say that they can perish on the journey back? This was a USA problem and Canada has been forced to solve it. Could that idiot down South not had a better system of removing the illegals, that did not qualify for Citizenship, like past Presidents did???

Zaibetter · Nov 11, 2018

Frankfooter said:
I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.
Canada, like most industrial countries, has a birth rate of much less then 2.
And while I expect that your minimum wage job doesn't have a pension, should you even consider wanting to collect CPP money should you ever retire, you're going to need more people paying into the system.
That means immigrants.

Your choice:
a) Let immigrants in and get a chance for CPP money, but risk losing your minimum wage job
b) Buy some tiki torches and start marching, while saying goodbye to pension possibilities

I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.

How about they bring in people legally like they've been doing for years and have people respect the system, rather than letting these guys cross the border with minimal vetting and stick it up the ass of all the people that have been waiting patiently.

Frankfooter · Nov 11, 2018

Zaibetter said:
I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.

How about they bring in people legally like they've been doing for years and have people respect the system, rather than letting these guys cross the border with minimal vetting and stick it up the ass of all the people that have been waiting patiently.

This may be hard for you, but both are not mutually exclusive.
The immigrants escaping Trump America are part of a temporary wave, mostly decent people trying to escape white nationalism.
Once Trump is impeached their numbers will drop again.
They will likely take your job, since you probably don't have much skills judging by the lack of knowledge in your posts, but maybe someday you can bus at a taco place.

Butler1000 · Nov 11, 2018

oagre said:
Another inaccurate and silly Sun editorial cut and pasted by our champion cut and paster.

I'd say Charlemagne clearly holds that title........

Zaibetter · Nov 11, 2018

Frankfooter said:
This may be hard for you, but both are not mutually exclusive.
The immigrants escaping Trump America are part of a temporary wave, mostly decent people trying to escape white nationalism.
Once Trump is impeached their numbers will drop again.
They will likely take your job, since you probably don't have much skills judging by the lack of knowledge in your posts, but maybe someday you can bus at a taco place.

Clearly you didn't understand what I said and hopefully you will understand the second time around....I doubt it .. but: I don't think Trump will be impeached and they need to come in legally.

Butler1000 · Nov 11, 2018

bver_hunter said:
Whatever Prime Minister Trudeau does to address this issue, there is no doubt that he will be condemned by the right wing media and their supporters.
We definitely need migrants to fill the numerous vacancies in the service industries. But the right wing press just do not mention that fact, but want to blow things out of proportion.
When Trumpty Dumpty praised Canada's Immigrant Policy where we get the cream of the crop, well all the right wingers did was condemn the American "Left" for not following the Canadian model.
Unless migrants qualify for this standard or they have genuine refugee cases, they will not be allowed permanent residence here. However, what can the Government do when these migrants arrive at the border in extreme conditions with most dehydrated and starving thank to that moron down South who created this crisis? Do they just turn them back and then say that they can perish on the journey back? This was a USA problem and Canada has been forced to solve it. Could that idiot down South not had a better system of removing the illegals, that did not qualify for Citizenship, like past Presidents did???

Service industries? Right. Because you prefer the cheap foreign labor of your lessers to cut the lawn and get your coffee right?

Lord only knows we wouldn't want instead to use the merit system to bring in better workers.....

Zaibetter · Nov 11, 2018

Butler1000 said:
I'd say Charlemagne clearly holds that title........

Lets not forget that oagre is a self admitted cut and paste king too, and then he points fingers at someone else. (which has him on ignore to boot) :rofl:

But yes Charlie overtook him ...

Frankfooter · Nov 11, 2018

Butler1000 said:
Service industries?

Is this some kind of racist claim of yours that immigrants are only suitable to service industries?

bver_hunter · Nov 12, 2018

Butler1000 said:
Service industries? Right. Because you prefer the cheap foreign labor of your lessers to cut the lawn and get your coffee right?

Lord only knows we wouldn't want instead to use the merit system to bring in better workers.....

Really?? Then why does your cult leader Trumpty Dumpty praise Canada's Merit System for what it is?? Who said that we do not want the "Merit System"?? However, when genuine refugees show up at our border then if they qualify for that status, then we should take them as that is what Canada is all about. Those who do not qualify should not be allowed in, unless they apply legally to come to Canada. Why do you think that the very well off take advantage of the system to bring in the Philippina nannies for their children. They pay them minimum wages, but then they are not complaining when it benefits them. But again why do you not blame the root cause. That idiot down South should have implemented a system that can be executed in a very orderly and timely manner, and not try and be rash so that Canada has to take the hit for these migrants who were LEGALLY in the USA in the first place!!

Butler1000 · Nov 12, 2018

Frankfooter said:
Is this some kind of racist claim of yours that immigrants are only suitable to service industries?

Those are Bver's words. And so you need to ask him that question. As I did. And instead of a response just another sputter.

Butler1000 · Nov 12, 2018

bver_hunter said:
Really?? Then why does your cult leader Trumpty Dumpty praise Canada's Merit System for what it is?? Who said that we do not want the "Merit System"?? However, when genuine refugees show up at our border then if they qualify for that status, then we should take them as that is what Canada is all about. Those who do not qualify should not be allowed in, unless they apply legally to come to Canada. Why do you think that the very well off take advantage of the system to bring in the Philippina nannies for their children. They pay them minimum wages, but then they are not complaining when it benefits them. But again why do you not blame the root cause. That idiot down South should have implemented a system that can be executed in a very orderly and timely manner, and not try and be rash so that Canada has to take the hit for these migrants who were LEGALLY in the USA in the first place!!

Anyone crossing across from the USA is not a refugee running. There are now venue shopping. And all it would take is another adjustment to the law to close a loophole to stop this.

So instead of assisting people in real need we get people hedging their bets.

mandrill · Nov 12, 2018

I shake my head.

Every week or so, conil cuts and pastes another content-devoid editorial from The Sun. The Sun is owned by pro Tory interests and is in permanent attack mode against Trudeau and the Liberals and "the illegal immigrant crisis" appears to be perceived by them as the "high yield avenue of attack".

Here is what I always write:

1. ALL Canadian administrations since the 1950's have adhered to the UN Convention of Refugees.
2. Trudeau is no different.
3. The Convention allows for people who have already entered Canada to make a claim, regardless of whether they have come from another developed country.
4. ALL Western countries are signatories to the Convention, incl the USA. THerefore, ALL Western countries allow what I described in 3. Trudeau is no different. Neither were Harper and Mulroney.
5. The only exception to this is when 2 countries have signed a mutual Treaty guaranteeing fair treatment of refugee claimants in their respective countries.
6. Canada and the US have such a treaty, but Harper fucked it up and allowed a loophole wherein refugee claimants who avoid regular border crossings and enter the other country's territory fall outside the Treaty. Well done, Harper!
7. The refugee claimant #'s into Canada have spiked somewhat since Trump's election. They are nowhere near "crisis" levels in Canada, despite what the Sun garbles.
8. Trudeau has no option but to accept these claimants for adjudication because this is mandated by the Convention. ALL Western countries are in the same position. The only alternative is to resile from the Charter. The Tories would love Trudeau to do this, as they would immediately swing 180 degrees and attack Trudeau for "betraying refugees and Canada's humanitarian tradition". Welcome to "ambulance chase politics", as practised by Andrew Scheer and his laddies.

I am going to bookmark this post, so I can cut and paste it into the 100's of new threads on exactly this same topic that Zaibetter and Conil and Porn Addict - aka "The Brains Trust of TERB" - will start on exactly the same topic, saying exactly the same thing. In that way, I can avoid wasting quite as much time on this garbage in the future.

mandrill · Nov 12, 2018

And why does Zaibetter call Trudeau "The Groper" when the Groper in Chief is Trump??

We all know that the "politics discussion" on this board is endless garbage. There is little discussion and never-ending sabre-rattling and rah-rahing for specific factions. But this thread plumbs the bottom of the barrel. Simply cut and pasting an attack editorial from a notoriously biased tabloid is a waste of everyone's time.

Bud Plug · Nov 12, 2018

oagre said:
8. Trudeau has no option but to accept these claimants for adjudication because this is mandated by the Convention. ALL Western countries are in the same position. The only alternative is to resile from the Charter.

What you keep posting is the traditional interpretation of the Convention (which at 67 years old, is getting a little old in the tooth, and was only ever amended in a modest way in 1967 to remove the temporal limits on the definition of "refugee") by bureaucrats under both Liberal and Conservative administrations. Of course, originally, the main purpose of this convention was to deal with dislocation caused by World War II, notably Jews seeking asylum around the world. It was not crafted in contemplation of a wave of economic migrants whose wish to relocate is only tangential to the politics of their nation of origin. After WWII refugees were resettled, there really hasn't been a new refugee crisis until what we are seeing today. For that reason, bureaucrats and governments could afford to have a generous interpretation of their refugee obligations. However, current circumstances require more conservative scrutiny.

First of all, the Convention only prevents legal penalties (like expulsion) from being applied to those who enter illegally but proceed directly from a country where they are in danger(and then promptly present themselves to immigration authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry):

Article 31
refugees unlawfully in the country of refugee
1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry or presence.

Second, the Convention only prohibits the circumstances under which Refugees who are lawfully in the country may be expelled, but nevertheless allows expulsions for reasons of national security or public order:

expulsion
1. The Contracting States shall not expel a refugee lawfully in their territory
save on grounds of national security or public order.

Full evidentiary hearings are not required in all circumstances:

2. The expulsion of such a refugee shall be only in pursuance of a decision
reached in accordance with due process of law. Except where compelling reasons
of national security otherwise require, the refugee shall be allowed to
submit evidence to clear himself, and to appeal to and be represented for the
purpose before competent authority or a person or persons specially designated
by the competent authority.

The Convention also requires Refugees to obey the laws of the country to which they seek asylum.

In short, these provisions don't address or contemplate what western nations are now contending with, and it is time for governments to take a position that protects the interests of their own citizens and defend that position before the courts, asking the courts to look at the issue in this modern context. That's the approach Trump is taking (with the wrinkle that he's doing it by way of Executive Order, which raised questions unique to American law).

The Sun keeps printing articles about this because real people are concerned that Canada can neither financially afford nor properly administrate the most recent wave of "refugee" claimaints. If people didn't care, the Sun wouldn't bother printing it and the Conservatives wouldn't get any political mileage out of it.

bver_hunter · Nov 12, 2018

Butler1000 said:
Anyone crossing across from the USA is not a refugee running. There are now venue shopping. And all it would take is another adjustment to the law to close a loophole to stop this.

So instead of assisting people in real need we get people hedging their bets.

As of June 2018, out of the 30,000 or so, that attempted to cross the border since February 2017, only 2344 were granted full entry into Canada as refugees. So it is not true that there are no refugees genuinely crossing the border. If they are not refugees who are granted full status, then please provide real evidence, and not speculation from right wing sources:

https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/Pages/Irregular-border-crosser-statistics.aspx

whiteshaft · Nov 12, 2018

Zaibetter said:
I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.

How about they bring in people legally like they've been doing for years and have people respect the system, rather than letting these guys cross the border with minimal vetting and stick it up the ass of all the people that have been waiting patiently.

I admire how you stated your sentiment and wish politicians in-charge would be more patriotic and run things responsibly!

EDITORIAL: Trudeau gets tough on border mess? Seriously?

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