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EDITORIAL: Trudeau gets tough on border mess? Seriously?

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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What you keep posting is the traditional interpretation of the Convention (which at 67 years old, is getting a little old in the tooth, and was only ever amended in a modest way in 1967 to remove the temporal limits on the definition of "refugee") by bureaucrats under both Liberal and Conservative administrations. Of course, originally, the main purpose of this convention was to deal with dislocation caused by World War II, notably Jews seeking asylum around the world. It was not crafted in contemplation of a wave of economic migrants whose wish to relocate is only tangential to the politics of their nation of origin. After WWII refugees were resettled, there really hasn't been a new refugee crisis until what we are seeing today. For that reason, bureaucrats and governments could afford to have a generous interpretation of their refugee obligations. However, current circumstances require more conservative scrutiny.

First of all, the Convention only prevents legal penalties (like expulsion) from being applied to those who enter illegally but proceed directly from a country where they are in danger(and then promptly present themselves to immigration authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry):

Article 31
refugees unlawfully in the country of refugee
1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
illegal entry or presence.


Second, the Convention only prohibits the circumstances under which Refugees who are lawfully in the country may be expelled, but nevertheless allows expulsions for reasons of national security or public order:

expulsion
1. The Contracting States shall not expel a refugee lawfully in their territory
save on grounds of national security or public order.


Full evidentiary hearings are not required in all circumstances:

2. The expulsion of such a refugee shall be only in pursuance of a decision
reached in accordance with due process of law. Except where compelling reasons
of national security otherwise require, the refugee shall be allowed to
submit evidence to clear himself, and to appeal to and be represented for the
purpose before competent authority or a person or persons specially designated
by the competent authority.


The Convention also requires Refugees to obey the laws of the country to which they seek asylum.

In short, these provisions don't address or contemplate what western nations are now contending with, and it is time for governments to take a position that protects the interests of their own citizens and defend that position before the courts, asking the courts to look at the issue in this modern context. That's the approach Trump is taking (with the wrinkle that he's doing it by way of Executive Order, which raised questions unique to American law).

The Sun keeps printing articles about this because real people are concerned that Canada can neither financially afford nor properly administrate the most recent wave of "refugee" claimaints. If people didn't care, the Sun wouldn't bother printing it and the Conservatives wouldn't get any political mileage out of it.

I keep saying this because it's the standard legal interpretation of the Convention for all countries. It's why the US for instance doesn't enforce "Safe Third Country" against Mexico. There's no accepted legal basis for making that argument in the absence of a bilateral treaty.

As for The Sun - that's the same newspaper that kept running news items and editorials suggesting that Faisal Hussain was part of an ISIS terror group and hinting that they had additional evidence to provide on the issue for weeks after the government had made a statement saying that there was no such proof. The Sun will run any crap it can get away with, as long as it please Tory party brass and attacks Trudeau and minorities. It's part of the game.

And yes, there have been waves of refugee claimants over the years. There were massive Central American and Sri Lankan refugee waves in the 1980's. And there's no "crisis" today in Canada. The number of refugees accepted into Canada are a few thousand a year. The current claims have spiked due to the anti refugee atmosphere in TRump's administration and exceeded the previous budgeting for lower numbers, but that just requires extra $ allocated into the program.

The counter refugee argument has ALWAYS been that they are all fake refugees and are really economic migrants trying to cheat the system; but that's why there is an expert tribunal set up to evaluate the claims and refuse the fake ones.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Anyone crossing across from the USA is not a refugee running. There are now venue shopping. And all it would take is another adjustment to the law to close a loophole to stop this.

So instead of assisting people in real need we get people hedging their bets.

IIRC, a lot of them are from groups that had temporary residence permits revoked en masse by the Trump administration after policy changes in the US and felt that their chances of remaining in the US were llimited. IIRC Haitians were the most affected group.

As I just explained to BP, "venue shopping" is not prohibited and there has been a long history of State influencing refugee tribunal determinations and decision-making in the US. It is rare for example for the US to accept refugee claimants from US allies like Guatemala and El Salvador because the US doesn't want to embarrass its puppets.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
70,664
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I know that this argument may be too hard for you to understand, but give it a try.

How about they bring in people legally like they've been doing for years and have people respect the system, rather than letting these guys cross the border with minimal vetting and stick it up the ass of all the people that have been waiting patiently.

You don't understand the system. ALL refugees make claims either at the border or when they are already in Canada and they are processed outside the normal immigration stream. Again, all Western countries have signed on to take these cases on a humanitarian basis. They DON'T "stick it up the ass of people who have been waiting" because those other people are processed as quickly as they would be in any event. Different tribunals and civil servants are assigned to the two different types of application.

And refugee claimants are vetted, just like everybody else.
 

Zaibetter

Banned
Mar 27, 2016
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And why does Zaibetter call Trudeau "The Groper" when the Groper in Chief is Trump??

We all know that the "politics discussion" on this board is endless garbage. There is little discussion and never-ending sabre-rattling and rah-rahing for specific factions. But this thread plumbs the bottom of the barrel. Simply cut and pasting an attack editorial from a notoriously biased tabloid is a waste of everyone's time.
Nobody is forcing you to read or post in this forum, rather than pointing fingers at others... why don't you take a look in the mirror and see that you do the same, you spend a lot of time here insulting others that don't have your same agenda. If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to stay...you're here from early morning to night, something is attracting you.
 

Zaibetter

Banned
Mar 27, 2016
4,284
1
0

You don't understand the system. ALL refugees make claims either at the border or when they are already in Canada and they are processed outside the normal immigration stream. Again, all Western countries have signed on to take these cases on a humanitarian basis. They DON'T "stick it up the ass of people who have been waiting" because those other people are processed as quickly as they would be in any event. Different tribunals and civil servants are assigned to the two different types of application.

And refugee claimants are vetted, just like everybody else.
Of course they stick it up the ass of those waiting ...and they stick up to us.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
70,664
69,733
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Of course they stick it up the ass of those waiting ...and they stick up to us.

Can you explain why you think this, in view of my comments about the administrative procedure and the 2 separate streams?

You make repeat, emotional comments about how much you dislike refugee claimants in this and other threads, but do not back any of it up. Perhaps you believe that Canada should take no refugees at all and resile from the UN Convention?
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
70,664
69,733
113
Nobody is forcing you to read or post in this forum, rather than pointing fingers at others... why don't you take a look in the mirror and see that you do the same, you spend a lot of time here insulting others that don't have your same agenda. If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to stay...you're here from early morning to night, something is attracting you.

Why do you call Trudeau the "groper" and admire Trump who has admitted that he "grabs them by the pussy"? Isn't that hypocritical and inconsistent?
 
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