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Thread: The Blue Jays 2019 Season

  1. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    I mentioned these guys mainly because Dawgger asked who else was traded.

    Happ was traded last year and his value was much higher then. He was one of the top pitchers available at the time. McKinney and, to a lesser extent, Drury are space fillers. Probably a money saver for Toronto.
    Osuna: I suspect most GMs would choose him over Giles looking forward. Giles is quite good, but I think Osuna is a more valuable commodity. And there is no certainty they will keep Giles after this year. He is doubtful that they want him back. Giles injury is a non-factor since as you say, unforeseeable. I did not consider Perez as I was simply looking at closer for closer. Looked up his stats for this year at AA ball. 4.70 ERA and 1.661 WHIP. No crystal ball was necessary to look up recent recorded history.
    Sogard: No big deal either way. He won't be missed and highly doubtful they will get anything significant other than saving money.

    When I said "sign and trade" it was not in the basketball sense but holding onto, IMO, two very good, high profile and very professional role model players who could be traded later for some decent value instead of letting them both walk for nothing whatsoever. Keep in mind EE went 2 years before JD and 3 before Vlady arrived, so there was time to get rid of a possible 3B/1B/DH logjam, although dumping Smoak's sorry ass would have solved that.

    Question: Do you think the Jays maxed out or even got significantly ahead on the returns they got for Stroman, Sanchez/Biagini, JD, Happ, Osuna, EE? Would you give them more than a "C" grade for what they got back for the talent that they had at their disposal? I know you are defending management and don't like my criticism of their management style, but how excited were you at the times these trades were made? Were there any "wows" for you?

    They saved a tonne of salary (even with the Giles acquisition), that's for sure. Unfortunately, I believe that that is more than offset by the lost revenue.
    I'm really not sure where to start ....

    Happ: had a 3.0 W.A.R. in 2018, was a pending F.A., Toronto got 2 capable pieces in exchange.
    Would you have rather had Happ this season (and be committed to him for 2020) as the Yankees are? No, thank you.
    Giles/Perez, Perez is still only 23. Still lots of time to figure things out. Osuna was a toxic situation. He was not going to play for Toronto again.
    The Blue Jays did well, getting a quality closer in exchange, and a lottery ticket.
    E.E. and J.D. did not "walk for nothing". J.D. returned Julien Merryweather (just 1 outing this season).....but Donaldson was injured at the time as well. I'm not sure what else Toronto could've done with E.E., they offered more money and more term than Cleveland did. Edwin's agent outsmarted himself in that situation.
    "Justin Smoak's sorry ass" you say?
    He has the 3rd highest O.B.P. on the club, and plays a terrific 1st base.
    He saves his young infield mates many an error.
    As far as the Sanchez/Biagini/Prospect for Fisher trade, they obviously see something in Fisher, have stated they'd been after him for a couple years. Sanchez? Who knows what is still there? Biagini, is a decent reliever, and who knows with the prospect? If the Astros straighten Sanchez out, I think they win the trade going away, unless Fisher turns into Mookie Betts or J.D. Martinez. No matter how the Houston trade works out, it won't be the worst Blue Jays/Astros trade in history.

    I'm not "defending management", but I can safely sit here and say Shapiro (not Shapeeeeero) and Atkins have forgotten more about baseball than anyone on this thread has ever known.
    As far as grading them, baseball is a rather unique sport in that it tends to take 2-3-5 or more years to figure out who "won" a trade, especially when trading established players for prospects. I reserve judgment.

  2. #1178
    When he's on his game Pannone has a NASTY curveball

    https://twitter.com/BlueJays/status/1161460529514385409

  3. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    We lost on the Osuna for Giles trade. Edwin is in the same category as Donaldson. They might have been able to do a sign and trade with both.

    s.
    I'm sure Costanza already beat me to this, but Osuna had to go due to his legal issues and the type of town this is. He was never going to be forgiven here and know as women beater. We offered Edwin the best deal and dumb ass agent gave him bad advice and turned it down.

  4. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil C. McNasty View Post
    All we need is a couple if quality starting pitchers, and we're set for next year.

    Hopefully Rogers will spend some money on free agents this winter

    Not this winter. To early. They'll wait a little closer to the trade deadline, but the big splash will come after next year. Once these kids have a little more experience and they also have a better idea of what they have.

  5. #1181
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    Quote Originally Posted by black booty lover View Post
    I'm sure Costanza already beat me to this, but Osuna had to go due to his legal issues and the type of town this is. He was never going to be forgiven here and know as women beater. We offered Edwin the best deal and dumb ass agent gave him bad advice and turned it down.
    I believe that they "quick-pitched" EE. They gave him a very short time frame to accept, an uncomfortable situation in which to make a decision. I suspect they were more than happy to force Edwin's hand so they could save $10M and sign Morales instead. It fits with pretty much every single move that they've made....save money.

  6. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcostanza View Post
    I'm really not sure where to start ....

    Happ: had a 3.0 W.A.R. in 2018, was a pending F.A., Toronto got 2 capable pieces in exchange.
    Would you have rather had Happ this season (and be committed to him for 2020) as the Yankees are? No, thank you.
    Giles/Perez, Perez is still only 23. Still lots of time to figure things out. Osuna was a toxic situation. He was not going to play for Toronto again.
    The Blue Jays did well, getting a quality closer in exchange, and a lottery ticket.
    E.E. and J.D. did not "walk for nothing". J.D. returned Julien Merryweather (just 1 outing this season).....but Donaldson was injured at the time as well. I'm not sure what else Toronto could've done with E.E., they offered more money and more term than Cleveland did. Edwin's agent outsmarted himself in that situation.
    "Justin Smoak's sorry ass" you say?
    He has the 3rd highest O.B.P. on the club, and plays a terrific 1st base.
    He saves his young infield mates many an error.
    As far as the Sanchez/Biagini/Prospect for Fisher trade, they obviously see something in Fisher, have stated they'd been after him for a couple years. Sanchez? Who knows what is still there? Biagini, is a decent reliever, and who knows with the prospect? If the Astros straighten Sanchez out, I think they win the trade going away, unless Fisher turns into Mookie Betts or J.D. Martinez. No matter how the Houston trade works out, it won't be the worst Blue Jays/Astros trade in history.

    I'm not "defending management", but I can safely sit here and say Shapiro (not Shapeeeeero) and Atkins have forgotten more about baseball than anyone on this thread has ever known.
    As far as grading them, baseball is a rather unique sport in that it tends to take 2-3-5 or more years to figure out who "won" a trade, especially when trading established players for prospects. I reserve judgment.
    Comparing Smoak's OBP to the rest of the team is setting the bar pretty low. They only have 3 players batting .250 or better.

    Anybody whose name is spelled Shapiro pronounces it Shapeero. (only 2 "e"s are needed).

    So in 4 years you can't name a single trade that you feel the Jays clearly won in terms of talent for talent. Of course they got something back each time, but did they get enough? I agree some time is needed to evaluate a lot of them, but to this point, there is not one that looks like a big win. Even though I don't like management, I still cheer for the players on the field as much as ever, so I hope I am wrong and we can start seeing some meaningful baseball games, hopefully in July and beyond, not just until mid-May. Next year is year 5 of the regime. I don't think playing .500 ball for the entire year is too much to ask for that time frame.

  7. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    I believe that they "quick-pitched" EE. .
    Believe whatever you want to believe.
    Believe in the tooth fairy.

  8. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcostanza View Post
    Believe whatever you want to believe.
    That is what every single individual does, including you as well as I. So I am not sure what that is supposed to mean.

  9. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    Anybody whose name is spelled Shapiro pronounces it Shapeero. (only 2 "e"s are needed).
    Not so. Where were you when he made it very clear that he pronounces it Shap-eye-ro?

    Quote Originally Posted by shack View Post
    That is what every single individual does, including you as well as I. So I am not sure what that is supposed to mean.
    Ah, now I understand you!

    That is what you do! But most of us look at the facts, the evidence, and then try to make an informed decision as to what makes sense.

    It's got nothing to do with belief. Belief is for religion, not reality!

    Try it! You may like it!

    Perry
    "A trip around the world is not a cruise."

  10. #1186
    I know its a very small sample size, but I believe Bichette could be our next Derek Jeter

  11. #1187
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    [QUOTE=Perry Mason;6474643]Not so. Where were you when he made it very clear that he pronounces it Shap-eye-ro?I have been quite aware.


    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Mason View Post
    Ah, now I understand you!

    That is what you do! But most of us look at the facts, the evidence, and then try to make an informed decision as to what makes sense.

    It's got nothing to do with belief.
    Semantics. Please don't read too much into it. I was basically just saying that each person has their own beliefs. As well, George picked on my word "believe" when I said that I believe Jays quick-pitched EE. I did not say "I know". I believe means that that is my perception/impression of what happened. I admit that I was not in the room with shatkins during discussions. But it would not surprise me if that was their strategy. Just speculating.

  12. #1188
    Quote Originally Posted by black booty lover View Post
    Not this winter. To early. They'll wait a little closer to the trade deadline, but the big splash will come after next year. Once these kids have a little more experience and they also have a better idea of what they have
    Maybe not this winter, but sooner or later Rogers is gonna have to spend some money on an ace pitcher and possibly a #2 or #3 starting pitcher.
    If we get lucky Pearson is ready late next summer or 2021. He could be an ace, but more realistically I think he's either a #2 or #3.
    I also think either Thornton, Font or Borucki could be a #4 or #5 starter.
    So we would need to sign (or trade for) 3 starting pitchers. Or hope that we can get one more starter from our farm system somewhere.

    Relievers you can get anywhere.
    It remains to be seen if Derek Law might have closer stuff, or 8th inning setup reliever type stuff.

    So in a nutshell I think the future looks bright (barring injuries and the like)

  13. #1189
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    So everyone is in on the joke but Kevin Barker. Jamie Kennedy threatened The Portuguse Lothario, in his own words, "he was going to punch Sid in the schnazz" if he wasn't respectful to Danielle Michaud. His co-host for the week.

    Shawn Reid Foley is going to be a very good pitcher, he had a bad day. I knew he was special when he first got promoted and showed up with a Lee Van Cleef stache.

  14. #1190
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil C. McNasty View Post
    I know its a very small sample size, but I believe Bichette could be our next Derek Jeter
    Bichette has more range than Jeter ever did.

  15. #1191
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    Quote Originally Posted by black booty lover View Post
    All I can say is thank god I got costanza on here. Someone with baseball I.q as high as mine.(if not higher).
    These two are spoonin together, love is grand.

    Didn't know that the rest of us are dummies, even though I was there in the snowstorm in 77. BBL and George are superior to us.


  16. #1192
    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious Von View Post
    These two are spoonin together, love is grand.

    Didn't know that the rest of us are dummies, even though I was there in the snowstorm in 77. BBL and George are superior to us.

    Well...when I read some of this shit that gets posted here, it's about as painful to read as listening to the Jays post game call in show. (which I barley listen to because the dumb shit people call in and say)


    People already talking about how the current management have made all these bad moves, and the reality is majority of the moves have turned out to be good and many of them we have to wait and see.

    That's just some of inaccurate shit I read on here. Every time I read something inaccurate, Costanza takes the words out my mouth so I give him props.

  17. #1193
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    I'm hoping that you and George can take a joke bbl, love is a many splendored thing.

    The way I look at it, the youngsters are saving the current regime from themselves. They're going to hit a roadblock unless management supplements the starting rotation. Waguespack and Reid Foley look like dependable starters. Thornton is erratic, hopefully with more starts he'll become more effective. Free Agents don't want to play here. And I haven't heard any more news about the stadium plans since that wedding at Ontario Place in Oct 2016.

    April 7, 1977 was a damp winter day but I was elated to be there. I was fortified by goat roti from Bacchus and the eight cans of beer stashed in my parka. I was sitting at the top of the first base line, luckily no wind was blowing in from Lake Ontario. It must have been a shock for Bill Singer, I believe he had pitched his entire career for the Dodgers. Not going to Google it.


  18. #1194
    It was a 3:53am post, I'm pretty sure BBL was deep into his gin and tonic (and some black booty)

  19. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil C. McNasty View Post
    It was a 3:53am post, I'm pretty sure BBL was deep into his gin and tonic (and some black booty)

    haha! It was beer not gin.

  20. #1196
    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious Von View Post
    I'm hoping that you and George can take a joke bbl, love is a many splendored thing. 8

    The way I look at it, the youngsters are saving the current regime from themselves. They're going to hit a roadblock unless management supplements the starting rotation. Waguespack and Reid Foley look like dependable starters. Thornton is erratic, hopefully with more starts he'll become more effective. Free Agents don't want to play here. And I haven't heard any more news about the stadium plans since that wedding at Ontario Place in Oct 2016.

    April 7, 1977 was a damp winter day but I was elated to be there. I was fortified by goat roti from Bacchus and the eight cans of beer stashed in my parka. I was sitting at the top of the first base line, luckily no wind was blowing in from Lake Ontario. It must have been a shock for Bill Singer, I believe he had pitched his entire career for the Dodgers. Not going to Google it.


    Free agents will come here, we're just going to have to over pay a bit. I'm thinking Shapiro's bid to reno the stadium was shot down because as far back as the spring, he said they will be making an announcement as there was a plan in place. I've accepted the fact we're stuck with stadium as long as I'm alive. The crappy part is they've done a lot over years to make it look better, but it's so god damn high everywhere and to round. I'll be honest, I loved the Ex. I wish I was a bit older when I saw games there so I could remember it more clear, but I loved it. Especially when the actual exhibition was on. I loved sitting in those left field bleachers with all the drunks....lol. Taking the street car to and from the stadium..the memories *sigh*. I was at the last night game.



    Latest I've read about renovation to the stadium is this, but it doesn't really tell you much:

    https://bluejaysnation.com/2019/03/2...vation-update/

  21. #1197
    Just read this, so maybe something is finally going to happen:


    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/blu...154843837.html

  22. #1198
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    That's the pact Canadians have made with their Municipal Governments. We prefer to see our tax dollars to improve the overall quality of life. Paying for universal health care, decent schools and other social amenities means that we are resistant to what the general good considers superfluous projects like state of the art stadiums. That's changed now that Daryl Katz has set the precedent for use of tax money.

    Baltimore and Pittsburgh has the two most beautiful ballparks in the MLs. And yet both have horrendous slums. We know about Baltimore, here's Pittsburgh.


  23. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by black booty lover View Post
    Just read this, so maybe something is finally going to happen:


    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/blu...154843837.html
    Thanks for sharing.
    Sounds promising!

  24. #1200
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    Jays current record 51-73. There are 4 teams with a worse winning pct. than them. TBH better than I thought. Maybe some credit is due to the skipper Montoyo and his staff.

    I think this management team can recognize talent but they are horrible traders. That Happ deal was pathetic. McKinney is a scrub so is Drury. We should have at least got one of their pitching prospects like Chance Adams. The Osuna deal was not as bad but it was still a poor deal. At the time Giles was so bad with Houston they had actually demoted him to AAA. Yes overall he's been very good since coming to Toronto but it was no secret that they were trying to shop him at the deadline but there was no market for him. The other pieces of the deal were David Paulino, who the Jays just released and Hector Perez who has had a sub par season in AA New Hampshire. And I won't even get started on the Donaldson trade to the Indians.

    I shine and rise at the same time.

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